ArnoSchutte 0 #1 January 16, 2007 Jumped my canopy this weekend and snapped 18 out of 20 lines. Only lines remaining is C2 and right brake line. This was on a sub terminal +/- 6 sec deployment out of a Porter. The funny thing for me is that all the lines snapped on the same length ( about a foot above my risers ) I had a bag lock and tucked on the risers to try and clear it. Which I will STRONGLY not recommend doing in the future if anyone would like to know. I think doing this created line dump ( riser slack as I pulled down ) and a quite hard opening If anyone can give me some advice on why the lines would snap on the same length it would be appreciated. There was no twists in the lines as I was looking at the bag and it was one of the last stows that were not releasing (meaning one of the grommet closing stows). ThanksRegards Arnie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 January 16, 2007 Generally lines fail just above the fingertrap, so tto have them fail at the same place isn't a big surprise, assuming that is where yours failed. Still, that is a LOT of broken lines. "quite a hard opening" sounds like an understatement. How many jumps on that line set? But wait, in the photos it looks like much more than a foot above the risers. If they didn't break just beyone the fingertrap, then you should look for some other problem than just exceeding the line strength, such as they were hung up somewhere. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArnoSchutte 0 #3 January 16, 2007 19 inches above risers. 17 jumps on this line set with about +/- 8 teminal openings. We checked the container (Mirage G4) and there is no sign of any hang up. I had both risers in my hand with the bag locked and everything was clear. The opening was not so hard due to the fact that I think most of the energy went into the breaking of the lines. I basically only felt a hard tuck not even enough to pull me into a stand up position. The reserve opening was much worst (terminal) .Regards Arnie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #4 January 16, 2007 Then this seems like something else to me. Can you dredge up some reason that the lines were damaged prior to the jump at that point? -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #5 January 16, 2007 Did you inspect your lineset after it came back from the reline? The set could possibly have been damaged during transit/at the factory... I lost a brake line at 1200 feet because my lines were not tacked after my factory reline (not PD... my old old canopy)... made me look closer at all 'new to me' gear, even if it was from the factory. Glad everything worked out for you bro but in a morbid intrest sort of way I wish you had video... that would have looked pretty wild I expect How did you find your risers??--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kris2extreme 0 #6 January 16, 2007 QuoteDid you inspect your lineset after it came back from the reline? The set could possibly have been damaged during transit/at the factory... That'd be my guess as well, just too wierd for all the lines to break in the same spot not near a fingertrap/bartack/etc. FWIW. When I had my baglock that I recovered in a manner similar to you (baglock stood me up, I reached up, grabbed the risers and jerked them down), I didn't have a hard opening (and that was on an original sabre!). From my findings of two adjacent broken rubber band stows on the bag, I concluded that the stowed lines had wrapped around the stow above it and locked the lines together... then when i yanked down it broke both of those rubber bands. Line twists out the wazoo though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArnoSchutte 0 #7 January 16, 2007 I though I had video but the opening shock turned it off. How did i find my risers ? D bag, risers and lines are out... So my hands are on my risers at line stretch. On a Velocity after inflation you want to be pretty quick on risers for avoidance/heading control. All of this was at 10000ft so plenty of time to play.Regards Arnie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
golowjoe 0 #8 January 16, 2007 Looks just like a tension knot to me . The way the lines are cut straight across and not torn like it would be with too much weight or load on them . The technora line is very easy to get a tension knot with . Why do you think it is taking PD so long to come out with their HMA thin line set to the public . They don't want to deal with this kind of headache . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #9 January 16, 2007 Nah, I mean after your chop... Finding a single riser w/ only shreds of lines has to be difficult after the fact... especially from 10k Did you suck your reserve pull down? My only cutaway was at about 6k but I had that sucker pulled as soon as I got stable... You know what tho? I had a bag hesitation on my Mirage G4 after a subterminal delay... I did the exact same thing and ripped my canopy out of the bag by yanking on my risers. After the fact I think I probably should have chopped it as the lines were just flopping around all over the place (which is why the tension not theory makes sense to me). At least you've got another story to tell and probably some to buy!--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArnoSchutte 0 #10 January 16, 2007 Hehe, sorry bru. No, I lost the left riser ( only thing I could not retrieve). The riser you see in the picture is the one with one line on that was still attached to the canopy. After cut away I pulled the left riser off as it did not release to clear everything. But I chucked it to pull my left handle.Regards Arnie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #11 January 16, 2007 In pic 3530, the lines look strange. What type of lines were they? Who did he re-line? What about the slider grommets? Is there any damage on them? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #12 January 16, 2007 Is there anyone that wants you dead that knows something about parachutes and had access to your rig when you weren't around? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #13 January 17, 2007 QuoteIs there anyone that wants you dead that knows something about parachutes and had access to your rig when you weren't around? thats sad to think about, but this has happend.. have you cheked your reserve to make sure it's fine? Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #14 January 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteIs there anyone that wants you dead that knows something about parachutes and had access to your rig when you weren't around? thats sad to think about, but this has happend.. have you cheked your reserve to make sure it's fine? Joe Well, I sure hope that one was chopped, and seeing as how we're getting this message, I'm sure the reserve worked ok. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recovercrachead 0 #15 January 17, 2007 Please pm me. I had 50 % of my lines go exactly the same spot. Looking at your canpoy gave me flashbacks.Track high, Pull LOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #16 January 17, 2007 QuoteIf anyone can give me some advice on why the lines would snap on the same length it would be appreciated. The last time I saw something like that was at a PIA symposium. Packin Cathy brought a canopy that had many lines break at the same place on an opening that was not too particularly hard. Bill Coe looked at it and said the slider friction burned the lines. Check the broken ends and see if some of the threads are melted. Some threads may be melted and others broken because they had to support more load. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #17 January 17, 2007 Sounds like a job for CSI.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #18 January 17, 2007 or batman--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #19 January 17, 2007 Have you looked for an unseated grommet on the bag or in the container that could have exposed spurs??? just curious, Hixxxdeath,as men call him, ends what they call men -but beauty is more now than dying’s when Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #20 January 17, 2007 Joe, You had it right from the start. The lines were cut by a tension knot caused by probable improper stowing of the lines. Things to note: *Not a hard opening *No fabric damage *All lines were severed at the exact same location *Not a normal Deployment This is the bad side of very small Technora lines. They tangle easily and will cut through one another very,very easily. Rules of the game here are: *Slinks should be tacked down * Riser to bag line length should be kept around 12 inches or less. *Lines stows should be less than two inches AND neatly stowed *When rotating the bag into the container, be very careful of the line stows. watching so that they do not "pickup" a/the riser to bag line/s The last one is the probable cause of this incident! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #21 January 17, 2007 could it be a lineover/line around the other lines and would have cut by friction ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #22 January 17, 2007 *** could it be a lineover/line around the other lines and would have cut by friction ? Quote Exactly. The Baglock is key here. A line stow had lose a loose line or lines(riser to bag length of lines) around it. When it did come out of the bag, it cut through the others! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites irishrigger 31 #23 January 17, 2007 glad your ok after that expirience.in my 15 years in the sport i have never seen anything like what you had.i have had a few lines brake on me in that time and inspected a lot of gear with line damage.but your incident takes the biscuit. i dont believe that a tension knot or a loose grommet somewhere can cause all this damage.if it was on the slider that means all of your grommets must be defective.and if one side of the slider did hang up,the lines would not have broken all in the smae place. its unclear from the pics,but they dont look like HMA or even spectra line to me.i would seriously look at what sort of material the lines are made out of.and i would also send those pics to PD,or even send the canopy there for inspection. its very hard to say,but i dont believe that this kind of damage can happen on a normal or unusual opening,and you said you werent even terminal. since they all went in the same place that makes it very suspect to me!!!!!! did maybe any substance or liquid get spilled on the lines??? another explanation would be that a bad needle was used when bartacking the lines.but that should have been spotted when you or someone packed the main.also from the pics,there should be no bartack in that area.they are normally at the very end of the line or at the cascades.and not 19" above the riser(although it does look more that 19" to me) i would advise to get this further investigated as this is not right and should never have happend to this extend. in my opinion there is 3 possible scenarios. 1.the lines are made from incorrect material. 2.someone interferred with the lines. 3.something very corrosive got spilled onto the lines. but that is my opinion,but i could never explain that kind of damage to an opening. rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #24 January 17, 2007 Quote i dont believe that a tension knot or a loose grommet somewhere can cause all this damage. Quote I guess we need to educate people a little in this subject area! I thought I just did in my previous post, but I guess it did not take! i would advise to get this further investigated as this is not right and should never have happend to this extend. I have investigated it far enough. It has happened on 4 occasions, this being the forth case. It all cases tension knots were the culprit. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 153 #25 January 17, 2007 QuoteJumped my canopy this weekend and snapped 18 out of 20 lines. Only lines remaining is C2 and right brake line. This was on a sub terminal +/- 6 sec deployment out of a Porter. The funny thing for me is that all the lines snapped on the same length ( about a foot above my risers ) I had a bag lock and tucked on the risers to try and clear it. Which I will STRONGLY not recommend doing in the future if anyone would like to know. I think doing this created line dump ( riser slack as I pulled down ) and a quite hard opening If anyone can give me some advice on why the lines would snap on the same length it would be appreciated. There was no twists in the lines as I was looking at the bag and it was one of the last stows that were not releasing (meaning one of the grommet closing stows). Thanks Glad this was (maybe?) on a CReW jump with lots of time to play and not a BASE.... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
irishrigger 31 #23 January 17, 2007 glad your ok after that expirience.in my 15 years in the sport i have never seen anything like what you had.i have had a few lines brake on me in that time and inspected a lot of gear with line damage.but your incident takes the biscuit. i dont believe that a tension knot or a loose grommet somewhere can cause all this damage.if it was on the slider that means all of your grommets must be defective.and if one side of the slider did hang up,the lines would not have broken all in the smae place. its unclear from the pics,but they dont look like HMA or even spectra line to me.i would seriously look at what sort of material the lines are made out of.and i would also send those pics to PD,or even send the canopy there for inspection. its very hard to say,but i dont believe that this kind of damage can happen on a normal or unusual opening,and you said you werent even terminal. since they all went in the same place that makes it very suspect to me!!!!!! did maybe any substance or liquid get spilled on the lines??? another explanation would be that a bad needle was used when bartacking the lines.but that should have been spotted when you or someone packed the main.also from the pics,there should be no bartack in that area.they are normally at the very end of the line or at the cascades.and not 19" above the riser(although it does look more that 19" to me) i would advise to get this further investigated as this is not right and should never have happend to this extend. in my opinion there is 3 possible scenarios. 1.the lines are made from incorrect material. 2.someone interferred with the lines. 3.something very corrosive got spilled onto the lines. but that is my opinion,but i could never explain that kind of damage to an opening. rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #24 January 17, 2007 Quote i dont believe that a tension knot or a loose grommet somewhere can cause all this damage. Quote I guess we need to educate people a little in this subject area! I thought I just did in my previous post, but I guess it did not take! i would advise to get this further investigated as this is not right and should never have happend to this extend. I have investigated it far enough. It has happened on 4 occasions, this being the forth case. It all cases tension knots were the culprit. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #25 January 17, 2007 QuoteJumped my canopy this weekend and snapped 18 out of 20 lines. Only lines remaining is C2 and right brake line. This was on a sub terminal +/- 6 sec deployment out of a Porter. The funny thing for me is that all the lines snapped on the same length ( about a foot above my risers ) I had a bag lock and tucked on the risers to try and clear it. Which I will STRONGLY not recommend doing in the future if anyone would like to know. I think doing this created line dump ( riser slack as I pulled down ) and a quite hard opening If anyone can give me some advice on why the lines would snap on the same length it would be appreciated. There was no twists in the lines as I was looking at the bag and it was one of the last stows that were not releasing (meaning one of the grommet closing stows). Thanks Glad this was (maybe?) on a CReW jump with lots of time to play and not a BASE.... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
