Is it possible to dye your container??

[MotherGoose 0]

Let's say the container you have is sun-damaged or the colors are just not hip and trendy anymore, can anything be done about this?? Is there a clothing dye that is safe for containers ??

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[leapdog 0]

I don't recommend that you hide the age of a container by renewing or changing its color. the degredation of the material is important because it means the difference of being airworthy or not. If wear and tear is hidden it makes inspection just a bit more difficult.

Also, not everything list all ingredients in the container. There may be a chemical that you are not aware of that can damage the fabric in the dye.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[sundevil777 94]

Don't do it. Some riggers will not repack a rig that has been dyed. If I was a rigger, I wouldn't pack it either.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[riggermick 6]

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Don't do it. Some riggers will not repack a rig that has been dyed. If I was a rigger, I wouldn't pack it either.

WHY?


Obviously you are an engineer (according to your profile), but a engineer of what? What is the heart burn with a dyed rig? As a rigger of many years and many dyed rigs and associated washings, I don't see the issue with a tye dyed H/C.

I'm curious as to your stand against dyed rigs. What is the CORE issue? It's been done successfully for years what's the issue?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from.


Mick.

No stranger to danger!!

[darkwing 4]

I will add that I wouldn't repack it either. Too many unknowns in the dye process. It may weaken the fabric/webbing/thread or make it more susceptible to UV damage, or other such things.

I seriously doubt any manufacturer would go for it. I will be interested in hearing if it is otherwise.

Bottom line, just don't do it.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

Quote

Don't do it. Some riggers will not repack a rig that has been dyed. If I was a rigger, I wouldn't pack it either.

WHY?


Obviously you are an engineer (according to your profile), but a engineer of what? What is the heart burn with a dyed rig? As a rigger of many years and many dyed rigs and associated washings, I don't see the issue with a tye dyed H/C.

I'm curious as to your stand against dyed rigs. What is the CORE issue? It's been done successfully for years what's the issue?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from.


Mick.

No stranger to danger!!

I remembered a previous thread where one of the very respected riggers on this site advised against it, warning that besides the possible damage that might be done, some riggers will refuse to pack it.

Probably best to get consent from the mfg before doing it, and if they are OK with it, getting a letter acknowledging it for the benefit of other riggers that would be troubled.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[riggerrob 558]

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I will add that I wouldn't repack it either. Too many unknowns in the dye process. It may weaken the fabric/webbing/thread or make it more susceptible to UV damage, or other such things.

I seriously doubt any manufacturer would go for it. I will be interested in hearing if it is otherwise.

Bottom line, just don't do it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee!
Hee!
This thread reminds me of a conversation - a decade ago - at Rigging Innovations. A local rigger brought in an old Talon that had been built with black fabric and red binding tape. The second owner had dyed all the binding tape with black shoe dye.
The official response from Sandy Reid was: "Because we do not have a clue what chemicals were in that shoe dye, we never had this conversation. This rig was never here. We never saw the rig. We will not do any updates on it. We will not do any repairs on it, etc."

[riggerrob 558]

Circa 1990, Sun Path and Rigging Innovations built a few rigs out of black par pack fabric that was dyed incorrectly. They faded to brown pretty quickly.
I know of at least two Javelins that were dyed with mild fabric dye (RIT?) and did another 800 jumps. They worked fine.

[councilman24 36]

In the very old days the hot thing to have was a military surplus container dyed black. I was trained that dying a container was a major alteration and required the services of a master rigger. Although I'm sure most were done by the owners.

Dying nylon isn't particularly easy. I doubt you'd be satisfied with the results. And, as a professional chemist as well as a master rigger I wouldn't go near the thing. Why would you want to be a test jumper with no back up system?

One spring a newbie that I helped train brought me his first rig that he bought over the winter to pack. I started looking at it and something just wasn't right. It actually took me a minute or two to realize what he'd done. It was a blue container and harness but the side of the harness webbing you could see was black and the container outside that you could see was black. He'd spent a good share of the winter coloring the thing with fabric markers! But only the stuff you could see. So the side of the harness against the body was, the inside of the containers, etc were still blue! He did an excellent job. It was so even that I didn't realize at first what was up. It looked weird but it just didn't sink in why for a minute or two. I started laughing and told him to find another container. The ink also was rubbing off on my hands. Even if I'd packed it I wouldn't have wanted to sit next to it on an airplane!

Forget about dying a rig. Either live with it, find one you like, or you may be able to have the offending flap replaced. Any rigger worth using won't pack it, you won't be able to resell it, and it will look like crap.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Beatnik 2]

A couple of years ago I came across a Talon 2 that was dyed by the owner. When I contacted Sandy Ried about it he essentially told me that the rigs TSO was not valid anymore because of the dye job. Like the others said, it shouldn't be touched.

Cheers,
Jim

[azureriders 0]

Rigging Innovations seems to keep coming up but I talked to them back in the spring about dying a talon clasic. I was told that if they ever saw it, it would be grounded imediately.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Rigging Innovations seems to keep coming up but I talked to them back in the spring about dying a talon clasic. I was told that if they ever saw it, it would be grounded imediately.

Wow! How about having a constructive approach? Can't they do it in the right way?

[MotherGoose 0]

Interesting responses. Its amazing that in this day and age, there isn't a safe chemical or organic dye that would not harm fabric. Not even a natural food coloring ?? I liked the guy with the markers . . . lots of time on his hands. Permanent markers may be good for little things like piping, but to do the whole container ... thats special.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[Kris 0]

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Interesting responses. Its amazing that in this day and age, there isn't a safe chemical or organic dye that would not harm fabric. Not even a natural food coloring ??

Cotton fabric is one thing. The Cordura and Parapack used in rigs is a nylon synthetic. It takes some amazingly harsh checmicals to dye it properly. Chemicals that you really don't want around your rig.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Fast 0]

It has a lot to do with the order of things to my understanding. When the nylon is created initially the dye process can be done in a manner than makes it still good for skydiving. When you try to fuck around with things after the fact, when there are different threads, glues, etc that can get ruined, you are asking for trouble.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[MotherGoose 0]

I think I'm starting to get the point ... general consensus : DON'T DYE YOUR CONTAINER. Loud and clear. I guess I'm just gonna have to live with this faded pink and baby blue number I got for a while longer. I'm sure it will be a hot seller in the classified's one day.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[riggerrob 558]

When they color new nylon, they mix in the dye before extruding it into threads. then they wear those threads into fabric.
The threads in para-pack and canopy fabric resemble glass rods, with smooth surfaces ... equals very difficult to penetrate with dye. To convince dye to "stick" to nylon threads, you need to do some form of acid etching to roughen the surface = very difficult to etch evenly on woven fabric.
Para-pack - that has been dyed aftermarket - always fades considerably the first time it is washed.

Cordura fabric is made of tiny blown fibers, squeezed together. While Cordura has far more surface area, it is also very difficult to color evenly (i.e. with a laundry marker) after the fact.

[icevideot 0]

Some high-end nylon is dyed before extrusion but most is dyed after being woven into fabric. It does take particular dyes and many factors such as ph and time in each solution during dying effect the result. It is nearly impossible to control these factors at home. That is why some tye dye fabrics are colorfast and you can wash them with anything and others just bleed away. I will take a chance with a t-shirt and maybe even an old jumpsuit, but my rig I only handwash in Woolite and rinse way more than I probably need to. Too much is on the line for me to risk some degradation that might be found in a post mortem investigation.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[masterrig 1]

Years ago, one of our jumpers, had an all red rig. He wanted an all black rig. Sooo, he got after the rig with black magic markers. Container, harness... all of it. The finished product was an ugly OD green. There wasn't a rigger around, who would touch it.


Chuck