security: Vector I vs. Vector II

[mostwanted 0]

are/were there any major security issues with the Vector I compared to the Vector II?

[phoenixlpr 0]

None of the are freefly friendly. Its a good reason to stay away from it.

[mostwanted 0]

ok. you mean both are equally "bad"?

PS: what if i only want to do RW?

[phoenixlpr 0]

You should be really broke to buy that. I don't know VectorI/Wonderhog, but its even older.

You might find some more uptodate and affordable rig.

[mostwanted 0]

hmm, i am really interested in the technical differences they made from the Vector I to the Vector II and also what exactly makes the Vector I (and maybe also Vector II) an unsafe container...

[base_rigger 0]

Don't buy the hype. There is NOTHING dangerous on properly well maintained VI and IIs. Yes there is velcro that has to be replaced every so # of jumps, big deal. I still jump a velcro BASE rig and I have a Warp III that I SD on regular basis. I'm still here and all the nasty malfunctions I had were on very modern gear.

You know you have a problem when maggot is the voice of reason at the exit points

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

hmm, i am really interested in the technical differences they made from the Vector I to the Vector II and also what exactly makes the Vector I (and maybe also Vector II) an unsafe container...

On the Vector II (for freeflying) - exposed bridle, velcro riser covers, crap main pin cover, not great reserve pin cover. I use mine for RW and wingsuit though and have never had any problems with it in those disciplines.

I don't know what the difference is between it and the Vector I - that rig is old!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skybytch 259]

AFAIK, the major differences between a Vector and a Vector 2 is in how the container flaps close. On the Vector I, they close with velcro; on the Vector 2 they close with tuck tabs. I "think" that was when the change was made from the old small top reserve p/c to the one with the bigger top too. Both the Vector I and 2 have veclro riser covers.

As always, my memory isn't perfect; I very well could be wrong about all of this.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi skybytch,

Your memory is quite good. I would recommend anyone having a V-1 to replace the small top pilot chute with the larger V-2 one. They did not make this change without a reason.

Jerry

PS) If either one is in good condition, they will be just fine for RW; OOPS, I mean FS. Or is it 'belly flying;' h#@*, who can keep up with being PC anymore?

[riggerrob 558]

Hee!
Hee!
No one has asked me to pack a Vector I with a Vector I pilot chute in this century. All those wimpy Vector I pilot chutes were replaced in the last century.
The next most obvious change is the closing sequence with the reserve bottom flap closing last. The Vector II bottom has a little pocket that helps hide the end of the ripcord pin.
The third most obvious difference is the tuck tabs holding the reserve pin cover closed.
While we are on the subject of pin covers, sometime during Vector I production,they switched to a tuck tab on the main pin cover.
An obscure difference is inside the lower corners of the reserve container. Initially they were only made of Cordura or Para Pack, and eventually tore, forcing the rigger to do a difficult and expensive repair. But part way through Vector II production, they added a layer of Type III tape.
Also BOC only came into fashion a few years after Vector II was introduced.
The is nothing wrong with Vector I - provided you keep within the design parameters (i.e. belly flying).
I still jump a Vector I with my wingsuit. Mind you, I have updated the reserve pilot chute, reserve bottom flap and pin cover, added a BOC and replaced most of the Velcro.
The best thing about my Vector I is that it came in my favorite color: FREE!

[e7540 0]

My buddy had HUGE problem with Vector. He had two canopies out not only once. Problem was - RSL. Reserve was poping out right after main. Vector has RSL directly connected to the reserve pin, and when main opens RSL pulls pin out. The rig was sent to manufacturer, they made rsl longer. It seems alright now, but I won`t buy Vector.

[sirenoremac 0]

yeah... that's how all RSLs are connected. your buddies just had to short of a lanyard. absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the rig is a vector.

[PhreeZone 15]

The Vector 3 design has the RSL as its own pin and the reserve ripcord is connected to it. This is different then the design that most companies use in having the RSL hooked to the cable on the reserve ripcord.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[brettski74 0]

Quote

AFAIK, the major differences between a Vector and a Vector 2 is in how the container flaps close. On the Vector I, they close with velcro; on the Vector 2 they close with tuck tabs.

By "container flaps", do you mean the pin covers? That's the only place on my Vector 2 that has tuck tabs. The riser covers are velcro.

Edit: Changed "vector" to "Vector 2".

[skydiverek 55]

Quote

I would recommend anyone having a V-1 to replace the small top pilot chute with the larger V-2 one. They did not make this change without a reason.

Tom Piras?

[USPA 0]

That's just stupid, the Vector RSL setup is IMHO opinion superior to others. But this is not an issue here!

A too short RSL lanyard will always pull the reserve pin out, which setup it is on what so ever.

This summer I grounded a rig, during a pin-check which had such a too short setup. (this was on the left (Reserve ripcord through RSL ring setup)) When jumper geared down, hanging the rig on the risers would actually move the reservepin! (cause was a rigging error using an incorrect RSL) Lengtening/ replacing a RSL can be easily done in the field, why send to the manufactorer?

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Lengtening/ replacing a RSL can be easily done in the field, why send to the manufactorer?

Because if the manufacturer does the work, the jumper can be pretty sure that it was done right. If a novice jumper doesn't yet know or trust the rigger(s) in his/her area, returning the gear to the manufacturer is, imho, the best thing they could do.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be done correctly in the field - of course it can be. But it being done in the field is the most likely explanation for why a lanyard of the incorrect length was installed in the first place.

[PhreeZone 15]

Replacing with a factory made piece is easy enough. If a rigger decides to adjust it they are entering a fight in which some people think only Master riggers can do it since it affects the reserve opening, others feel Senoir riggers have the authority to adjust it. No matter what the rigger should contact the factory to get the correct sizing of the part. Sometimes the part might be right but due to other changes in the system it might need to be adjusted elsewhere also. For example I've seen some risers out there with the RSL loop at the very base of the riser and others where the ring is 5-6 inches up on the riser. All those factors come into play when looking at replacements for parts in a rig.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[sirenoremac 0]

thanks, didn't realize that the V3 had that type of RSL setup. cool. my point still being that a too short lanyard will cause unwanted reserve openings on any type of container.

[USPA 0]

Quote

But it being done in the field is the most likely explanation for why a lanyard of the incorrect length was installed in the first place.

That is true, see my own example.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[riggermick 6]

Quote

Replacing with a factory made piece is easy enough. If a rigger decides to adjust it they are entering a fight in which some people think only Master riggers can do it since it affects the reserve opening, others feel Senoir riggers have the authority to adjust it. No matter what the rigger should contact the factory to get the correct sizing of the part. Sometimes the part might be right but due to other changes in the system it might need to be adjusted elsewhere also. For example I've seen some risers out there with the RSL loop at the very base of the riser and others where the ring is 5-6 inches up on the riser. All those factors come into play when looking at replacements for parts in a rig.

Dear Phree,


So, now you are a moderator with no rigging certificate and just a scant six years in the sport and who will not give your full name in your profile, you now feel justified in giving rigging advice to all and sundry?



I'm not saying that your advice is bad (it actually makes sense) but your lack of qualification and level of anonimitiy leaves somthing to be desired.

I'm just curious, what exactly is the criterion for a "moderator" in any given forum?

I have always found that in order to bring crediblity to a discussion one should have the required rating, at a minimum in this forum, a seinor (or equivlent rating) should be mastered in order to promilgate advice on the given subject.


I'm not trying to "bust your balls" here but my concern is valid, as a moderator of a "gear and rigging " forum shouldn't the MINIMUM qualifiction at least be a seinor rigger ticket (or foregin equivlent)?


How do these decisions get made? It's a valid question if one want's to protect the intregrety of the discussion group.

Your thoughts? Sangrio, your thought's also?


Awaiting your answers with a positive reception.

Cordually yours,

Mick Cottle.

(you know the rest)

[hookitt 0]

Quote

I'm not trying to "bust your balls" here but my concern is valid, as a moderator of a "gear and rigging " forum shouldn't the MINIMUM qualifiction at least be a seinor rigger ticket (or foregin equivlent)?

That's why the moderator of the Gear and Rigging forum is slotperfect[/#]

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[PhreeZone 15]

Mick, I moderate the Bonfire and the Incidents fourms. John moderates this fourm since he has a Master Riggers ticket and none of the other moderators do. We appear Green in all the fourms no matter if we are the moderator or not in that area.

edited since I got Johns ticket wrong

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[sangiro 4]

Quote

I'm not saying that your advice is bad (it actually makes sense)

Then maybe I should make him a moderator here...

Quote

Your thoughts? Sangrio, your thought's also?

Sure. You've got the cat by the tail. Phree doesn't moderate this forum. As a participant in these forums and someone with a keen interest in rigging and working towards his ticket he's more than welcome to offer his opinion here.

And my final thought: Even if you actually did get it right, you would have been better off actually discussing the issue rather than challenging his credentials.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[e7540 0]

Quote

I'm not saying that it couldn't be done correctly in the field - of course it can be. But it being done in the field is the most likely explanation for why a lanyard of the incorrect length was installed in the first place.

I dont know how it was done first, but the rig was sent to manufacturer twice. Fist time, when the problem was discovered, my friend sent it to RW. They claimed that they fixed everthing.
Next jump on the "fixed" rig - the same problem, reserve poped out right after main. He had to cut away main this time to avoid entanglement with reserve. WTF? My buddy could`ve died. Such a sh..ty job by manufacturer?
When the rig was sent second time, they made RSL lanyard longer another 2 inches. It works now, but, as i said before, I dont wanna deal with people who dont know what they do!