freq-fly 0 #1 October 31, 2006 Hey all~ I'm debating on what canopy to purchase. I'm thinking either a Spectre or Saber 2 170. I've been flying a PD 190 for the past year and ready to downsize. I've heard good things about both canopies but wanted to get yalls opinions. Thanks!Fail because of it or succeed inspite of it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #2 October 31, 2006 What do you want to do with the canopy? A bit of CRW? Some Sport Accuracy? Learn to swoop? Wanna jump camera? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #3 October 31, 2006 What have you demo'd? Either canopy will seem to be much higher performance, even if you stay with a 190. I fly a PD210 that still flies/lands really well, and the Pilot 210 I tried was much sportier. The Sabre 2 190 I tried was of course even more so. Don't be so sure you need to downsize to get improved performance and fun.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #4 October 31, 2006 I won't be the last to say this, but DEMO BOTH. It's easy and cheap. I was set to buy a spectre after reading about them both. Put 17 jumps on a spectre demo and was still ready to buy one. Then I put 2 jumps on a sabre2 demo, and I bought a sabre2. Other people I know have pretty much had the opposite experience. I've got about 700 jumps on my sabre2 now and have no desire to get a new canopy (just some new lines on my canopy!). Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #5 October 31, 2006 Forget about both those canopies mate. I bought a brand new sabre 2 15, did 20 jumps on it, then demoed a safire 2 139 and straight away bought a safire 2 129 Fuck the sabre. Sabre 2's are shit, off heading openings (and before all you PD fans say so, all my safire openings are on heading so nothing to do with position). Buy a Icarus Safire 2 149. demo what you want but demo the safire 2 last. The toggle pressure is so much lighter than a sabre and you fly the safire, not like the sabre which always feel like it i flying you. Icaurus is the greatest canopies out there an you will find out why when you demo one.!! Seriously, these canopies are like having an orgy with a bunch of chicks that are dressed up like school girls! .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #6 October 31, 2006 I don't think it is wise to recommend a change from a PD190 to a safire 150 in one step.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #7 October 31, 2006 I think you are right, i have no idea what his weight or size is. I just think his next canopy should be the beast.. ICARUS safire 2. Maybe he should demo a safire 2 169 and if he likes it and his size is right buy a safire 149 while holding on to the demo canopy of safire 169 and getting 20-30 jumps on it while the 149 is being built. Whatever though, demo a safire 2 189/169 and see where you want to go from there. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #8 October 31, 2006 Get hold of Wyat from Icarus, he will hook you up.... actually go to Bonnie, 'Gravitygirl' (dropzone.com username( she will get you sorted and at a nice price i might add. Icarus is the way of the future, PD, who is PD, never heard of them No, each to their own, just demo a safire while you are making your mind up .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freq-fly 0 #9 October 31, 2006 I weigh about 180... and I'll be honest, when it comes to landings I am not "aggressive" at all. On my 35 jump I had one helluva fuck accident (if any of you skydive in mesquite, NV you've probably heard about it) and I take it easy when it comes to landings, dont get me wrong, definitely want to start taking more aggressive approaches, surfing, etc. And want a canopy that opens nice, and fun to fly.Fail because of it or succeed inspite of it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #10 October 31, 2006 The Spectre will probably open a bit nicer, and the Sabre2 will probably be a bit better if you want to get into swooping. A Safire2 would also be a good choice. I doubt you'll be disappointed in any of the three. If you can, demo them. See which you like best before you part with your hard-earned Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #11 October 31, 2006 safires generally take around 800 feet to open. They are awesome always on heading and soft as hell openings. Very forgiving come flare time as well though you can get a nice little swoop on if you want.. Jump a safire... ot kidding you, this is a canopy that is hard to be beaten. When it comes to this range of canopies, i would pay an extra 800us dollars for a safire over a sabre 2 anyday. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,476 #12 October 31, 2006 Safire 2/Sabre 2/Pilot are all pretty similar. I'd look around for a deal on a 170ish size in one of those. The Spectre is a nice canopy, but often takes too long to open. In my book, opening in time to avoid a cypres fire even if you open a little low is a good thing for a canopy to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #13 October 31, 2006 Quotesafires generally take around 800 feet to open. Too long for me! I'm perfectly happy with the openings on my Sabre1[\b]-120. I demoed a Safire2, liked it, but it sniveled too long. Sabre2 kicks it's ass! (You just must be blowing an Icarus rep.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LordRatner 0 #14 October 31, 2006 Eh, it depends on what type of skydiver you are. I'm on a Sabre2 170, and buying a 150 to jump for a while while my rig is built for a 135. I know people who love Spectres for their soft openings and steeper slopes. In my admittedly limited experience, I was able to pull more performance out of a Sabre 2 landing than a Spectre. If I wait too long to flare on a sabre2, I can just rip the toggles to my knees and keep from eating dirt. The Spectre was a bit less adaptive. I don't like the generic answers you get here (ask your instructors, stick with analog, don't downsize so fast), but this time the generic answer is right, demoing the canopy is a good idea. My local DZ has renters with each type of canopy, and it took one jump on each to see that I wanted a Sabre2 Best of luck to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 3331 121 #15 October 31, 2006 Check out the Firebolt from Jump Shack in Deland. I just asked for you and their 182 was recommended. The shop phone number is 386-734-5867. Their web site is experiencing difficulty.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites adventurechick 0 #16 October 31, 2006 Talk to Kim at PD.. she's the Demo girl there! She could offer some more insight as well. PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860 SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cacophony 0 #17 October 31, 2006 QuoteI think you are right, i have no idea what his weight or size is. I just think his next canopy should be the beast.. ICARUS safire 2. Maybe he should demo a safire 2 169 and if he likes it and his size is right buy a safire 149 while holding on to the demo canopy of safire 169 and getting 20-30 jumps on it while the 149 is being built. Whatever though, demo a safire 2 189/169 and see where you want to go from there. Its because of posts like this that reinforce why its a very bad idea to listen to people online. How lame..... With 100 jumps you should not even consider stepping up to a wing loading above 1.2 within the next 150 jumps at least. Just demo everything, but stick with the same size of everything, and stick with close to what you are used to. Speed is tempting, but living is much more tempting. Oh, and talk to experienced people at your dropzone to help with flaring new canopies and such, not people who just want attention online and have nothing better to do than bitch about things they have no experience with and don't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #18 October 31, 2006 QuoteI'm on a Sabre2 170, and buying a 150 to jump for a while while my rig is built for a 135. Seth, I know you said you don’t like the answers on DZ.com so I will take this to PM. This is not meant as a flame just my opinion, take it or leave it. You are downsizing way to fast. This is not a race to see who can go the smallest the quickest. That can and will lead to pain as a prize. And by the way PD does not make a 170 reserve. MichaelMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bigway 4 #19 October 31, 2006 I am just letting him know their are options available. In other words he does not need to buy the next size down canopy, he can demo one for 30-40 jumps while his other is being made. I too think people need to speak to there instructors or their on dropzone dealers. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jheadley 0 #20 October 31, 2006 Get some demos. PD's demo program is the best. I sent a demo request on Monday and had it on my doorstep on Thursday. Thanks Kim! As for aerodyne, I'm trying to demo a pilot, I sent one email, waited a week, never heard back, sent another email, a week later someone emailed me, and told me they didn't have a demo available that week but would the next week. I emailed them back and am still waiting for their reply... That's ok though, I like my sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chris-Ottawa 0 #21 October 31, 2006 QuoteHey all~ I'm debating on what canopy to purchase. I'm thinking either a Spectre or Saber 2 170. I've been flying a PD 190 for the past year and ready to downsize. I've heard good things about both canopies but wanted to get yalls opinions. Thanks! Hey, Just thought I'd pipe up here. Please be careful with your wing loading, I'm not going to say anything more and I'll leave it up to you and your instructors to figure that out. Trust everyone though, it's not a race, I went too quick and now I have to spend the time adapting to my canopy, and I'm only at a 1:1 (Even though thats not the only factor). As for the canopy, my progression has allowed me to try a few different beginner canopies. A) Silhouette 210 - Nice canopy, easy to pack, I found the openings brisk, had a few line twists. B) Pilot 170 - Very smooth opening, almost chopped the first time it was so long and comfy. Thought it wasn't going to open. Very snappy in turns, powerful flare. C)2 Different Sabre2 150's - Amazing canopy, simple as that. Great openings, wicked quick steering, stable, and probably the best flaring canopy in the beginner/intermediate market. I had my first chop under this canopy, not the canopy's fault, just some tension knots. The canopy could have been landed like this, but it would have hurt, so I chopped. Canopy was flying nice and straight with some toggle input, considering the last cell was collapsed. Highly recommended canopy. only thing I didn't like was that 3 out of 4 jumps will have end cell closure, which isn't a big problem, but can cause line twists D)My current canopy - Spectre 135. This is my baby. LOOOOOOOOVE this canopy. Openings are very nice, but not too comfy where it becomes scary. It opens in about 6-700 ft. Roughly 30 jumps on it and never had any line twists, collapsed cells, or any problems whatsoever. This canopy definitely sinks more than the Sabre 2 but I prefer it as I can land this one much better. That's just my preference. Plus, your reserve is normally very similar to a Spectre, so landing it, if necessary will be a breeze. The Spectre has a VERY good reputation as well. So in all honesty, I'd be hard pressed between a Sabre 2 or a Spectre, but I would personally but a Spectre due to the end cell issue on Sabres. That would be the only advantage for me in buying a Spectre over a Sabre. They are very similar canopies in most respects. Plus, I'm the only one on my DZ jumping a Spectre. Mauahaha!! Anyways, feel free to message me for more in depth info. Chris!"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brianfry713 0 #22 October 31, 2006 I went with a Sabre 2, it swoops great. I didn't like the Safire 2 as much, the recovery arc is too short.BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites g2gjump 0 #23 November 1, 2006 I agree with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudi 0 #24 November 1, 2006 Try as many different canopies appropriate for your current skill level as you can get your hands on. Please don't fall for the "it will be perfect for you in X # jumps." That advice is crap. Get something you are confident flying now. Try them all in the same size as you are jumping now to get a true comparison. If that size still feels too slow for you on these canopies & you landed them comfortably in many different situations, you and your S&TA feel confident that you are ready for something a bit faster (downsizing) and a bit more aggressive (higher wing loading), then try your favorite(s) in the next size down. Decide if you are ready for the downsize & get the canopy that meets most, if not all, of your priorities (openings, landings, flight characteristics, etc.). People are very loyal to whatever canopy they have in general & will tell you their favorite is the "best." It may be the best for them and many others, but may not be the best choice for you and it doesn't make their favorite canopy any better or worse than another. What really matters is what works best for YOU. Have fun trying them all out! Just my .02 cents. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #25 November 1, 2006 The only way to figure out which canopy is right for YOU is to put some jumps on a variety of models from a variety of manufacturers and then decide for yourself. I love my Spectre. I know others who love their (insert name of canopy or canopy manufacturer here). Most everybody will tell you that what they jump is the best, and it very well may be the best... for them. That doesn't mean that it is going to be the best... for you. I'd suggest demoing canopies the same size as what you are flying now first. If after doing that you think you want to go faster, try out a couple models in a smaller size. Phreezone posted a thread here a while back with contact info for most manufacturers that offer demos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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bigway 4 #11 October 31, 2006 safires generally take around 800 feet to open. They are awesome always on heading and soft as hell openings. Very forgiving come flare time as well though you can get a nice little swoop on if you want.. Jump a safire... ot kidding you, this is a canopy that is hard to be beaten. When it comes to this range of canopies, i would pay an extra 800us dollars for a safire over a sabre 2 anyday. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #12 October 31, 2006 Safire 2/Sabre 2/Pilot are all pretty similar. I'd look around for a deal on a 170ish size in one of those. The Spectre is a nice canopy, but often takes too long to open. In my book, opening in time to avoid a cypres fire even if you open a little low is a good thing for a canopy to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #13 October 31, 2006 Quotesafires generally take around 800 feet to open. Too long for me! I'm perfectly happy with the openings on my Sabre1[\b]-120. I demoed a Safire2, liked it, but it sniveled too long. Sabre2 kicks it's ass! (You just must be blowing an Icarus rep.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordRatner 0 #14 October 31, 2006 Eh, it depends on what type of skydiver you are. I'm on a Sabre2 170, and buying a 150 to jump for a while while my rig is built for a 135. I know people who love Spectres for their soft openings and steeper slopes. In my admittedly limited experience, I was able to pull more performance out of a Sabre 2 landing than a Spectre. If I wait too long to flare on a sabre2, I can just rip the toggles to my knees and keep from eating dirt. The Spectre was a bit less adaptive. I don't like the generic answers you get here (ask your instructors, stick with analog, don't downsize so fast), but this time the generic answer is right, demoing the canopy is a good idea. My local DZ has renters with each type of canopy, and it took one jump on each to see that I wanted a Sabre2 Best of luck to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 121 #15 October 31, 2006 Check out the Firebolt from Jump Shack in Deland. I just asked for you and their 182 was recommended. The shop phone number is 386-734-5867. Their web site is experiencing difficulty.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adventurechick 0 #16 October 31, 2006 Talk to Kim at PD.. she's the Demo girl there! She could offer some more insight as well. PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860 SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #17 October 31, 2006 QuoteI think you are right, i have no idea what his weight or size is. I just think his next canopy should be the beast.. ICARUS safire 2. Maybe he should demo a safire 2 169 and if he likes it and his size is right buy a safire 149 while holding on to the demo canopy of safire 169 and getting 20-30 jumps on it while the 149 is being built. Whatever though, demo a safire 2 189/169 and see where you want to go from there. Its because of posts like this that reinforce why its a very bad idea to listen to people online. How lame..... With 100 jumps you should not even consider stepping up to a wing loading above 1.2 within the next 150 jumps at least. Just demo everything, but stick with the same size of everything, and stick with close to what you are used to. Speed is tempting, but living is much more tempting. Oh, and talk to experienced people at your dropzone to help with flaring new canopies and such, not people who just want attention online and have nothing better to do than bitch about things they have no experience with and don't understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #18 October 31, 2006 QuoteI'm on a Sabre2 170, and buying a 150 to jump for a while while my rig is built for a 135. Seth, I know you said you don’t like the answers on DZ.com so I will take this to PM. This is not meant as a flame just my opinion, take it or leave it. You are downsizing way to fast. This is not a race to see who can go the smallest the quickest. That can and will lead to pain as a prize. And by the way PD does not make a 170 reserve. MichaelMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #19 October 31, 2006 I am just letting him know their are options available. In other words he does not need to buy the next size down canopy, he can demo one for 30-40 jumps while his other is being made. I too think people need to speak to there instructors or their on dropzone dealers. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #20 October 31, 2006 Get some demos. PD's demo program is the best. I sent a demo request on Monday and had it on my doorstep on Thursday. Thanks Kim! As for aerodyne, I'm trying to demo a pilot, I sent one email, waited a week, never heard back, sent another email, a week later someone emailed me, and told me they didn't have a demo available that week but would the next week. I emailed them back and am still waiting for their reply... That's ok though, I like my sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #21 October 31, 2006 QuoteHey all~ I'm debating on what canopy to purchase. I'm thinking either a Spectre or Saber 2 170. I've been flying a PD 190 for the past year and ready to downsize. I've heard good things about both canopies but wanted to get yalls opinions. Thanks! Hey, Just thought I'd pipe up here. Please be careful with your wing loading, I'm not going to say anything more and I'll leave it up to you and your instructors to figure that out. Trust everyone though, it's not a race, I went too quick and now I have to spend the time adapting to my canopy, and I'm only at a 1:1 (Even though thats not the only factor). As for the canopy, my progression has allowed me to try a few different beginner canopies. A) Silhouette 210 - Nice canopy, easy to pack, I found the openings brisk, had a few line twists. B) Pilot 170 - Very smooth opening, almost chopped the first time it was so long and comfy. Thought it wasn't going to open. Very snappy in turns, powerful flare. C)2 Different Sabre2 150's - Amazing canopy, simple as that. Great openings, wicked quick steering, stable, and probably the best flaring canopy in the beginner/intermediate market. I had my first chop under this canopy, not the canopy's fault, just some tension knots. The canopy could have been landed like this, but it would have hurt, so I chopped. Canopy was flying nice and straight with some toggle input, considering the last cell was collapsed. Highly recommended canopy. only thing I didn't like was that 3 out of 4 jumps will have end cell closure, which isn't a big problem, but can cause line twists D)My current canopy - Spectre 135. This is my baby. LOOOOOOOOVE this canopy. Openings are very nice, but not too comfy where it becomes scary. It opens in about 6-700 ft. Roughly 30 jumps on it and never had any line twists, collapsed cells, or any problems whatsoever. This canopy definitely sinks more than the Sabre 2 but I prefer it as I can land this one much better. That's just my preference. Plus, your reserve is normally very similar to a Spectre, so landing it, if necessary will be a breeze. The Spectre has a VERY good reputation as well. So in all honesty, I'd be hard pressed between a Sabre 2 or a Spectre, but I would personally but a Spectre due to the end cell issue on Sabres. That would be the only advantage for me in buying a Spectre over a Sabre. They are very similar canopies in most respects. Plus, I'm the only one on my DZ jumping a Spectre. Mauahaha!! Anyways, feel free to message me for more in depth info. Chris!"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #22 October 31, 2006 I went with a Sabre 2, it swoops great. I didn't like the Safire 2 as much, the recovery arc is too short.BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g2gjump 0 #23 November 1, 2006 I agree with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #24 November 1, 2006 Try as many different canopies appropriate for your current skill level as you can get your hands on. Please don't fall for the "it will be perfect for you in X # jumps." That advice is crap. Get something you are confident flying now. Try them all in the same size as you are jumping now to get a true comparison. If that size still feels too slow for you on these canopies & you landed them comfortably in many different situations, you and your S&TA feel confident that you are ready for something a bit faster (downsizing) and a bit more aggressive (higher wing loading), then try your favorite(s) in the next size down. Decide if you are ready for the downsize & get the canopy that meets most, if not all, of your priorities (openings, landings, flight characteristics, etc.). People are very loyal to whatever canopy they have in general & will tell you their favorite is the "best." It may be the best for them and many others, but may not be the best choice for you and it doesn't make their favorite canopy any better or worse than another. What really matters is what works best for YOU. Have fun trying them all out! Just my .02 cents. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #25 November 1, 2006 The only way to figure out which canopy is right for YOU is to put some jumps on a variety of models from a variety of manufacturers and then decide for yourself. I love my Spectre. I know others who love their (insert name of canopy or canopy manufacturer here). Most everybody will tell you that what they jump is the best, and it very well may be the best... for them. That doesn't mean that it is going to be the best... for you. I'd suggest demoing canopies the same size as what you are flying now first. If after doing that you think you want to go faster, try out a couple models in a smaller size. Phreezone posted a thread here a while back with contact info for most manufacturers that offer demos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
