billvon 2,413 #51 October 1, 2007 >Or one who needs artificial products/materials/whatnots to do it for her. Y'know, if she wants to wear a skimpy skirt, or a conservative dress, or no makeup, or a ton of makeup, or make her hair look like a bird's nest, that's her decision - as long as she's happy doing it and it won't destroy her if she has to dress some other way for a while. That being said, I think the effort spent on external appearances is an indication of how important externalities are to that person, and that's something of a window into their values. But that's their choice. You can take two hours to get ready to go somewhere and still be a low maintenance person - as long as you're not constantly asking "do I look OK? Do I look fat in these? Am I pretty?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #52 October 1, 2007 Quote "do I look OK? Do I look fat in these? Am I pretty?" Bill, for the third time, you look great.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwings 0 #53 October 1, 2007 I should add 'expensive' in that comment. Some women (and men) think quality means a high price tag. But I think you hit a spot with the window into their values remark. They choose something based on other people's (the media and the celebs especially) words, not by their own consideration. Then they turn around and demand the same from their husband/boyfriend.Why don't you just go to the police station in a red clown suit and let everybody know what we're doing here? I have a phobia for moobs. Thanks, youknowwhoyouare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,413 #54 October 1, 2007 But does this jumpsuit make my ass look fat? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #55 October 1, 2007 "Does this jumpsuit make my ass look fast?" That's what Vskydiver asks me.High maintenance means they can't go camping, hiking, or hunting. High maintenance means beauty salons, day spas, and nail appointments. High maintenance means "Don't touch me, I just had my hair/nails/face done." High maintenance means caring more about what other women think about how she looks that how she looks to the man she loves (or pretends to love.) High maintenance is borderline neurotic in my book, a sign of insecurity or maybe just narcissism. Wearing make up and taking a few minutes to get ready to go out is not high maintenance. Especially when they are doing it to look good for their man. I hope that's not too chauvinistic, but V and I have a pretty old fashioned relationship. It seems to work really well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,413 #56 October 1, 2007 >High maintenance means they can't go camping, hiking, or hunting. >High maintenance means beauty salons, day spas, and nail appointments. Eh, I know some very low-maintenance (smart, independent, fine on their own, strong sense of self etc) women who spend much more time in beauty salons than hiking or hunting. One woman made it on her own as an actress in NYC. Another runs a department in a hospital. It's not for me, but that doesn't mean they're high maintenance. OTOH I've known some VERY high maintenance women who don't use a lot of makeup. To me, maintenance isn't what you put on your face - it's the support you need from someone else just to make it through the day. >Wearing make up and taking a few minutes to get ready to go out is >not high maintenance. Especially when they are doing it to look good for >their man. Well, someone who does ANYTHING for someone else is a bit higher maintenance than people who do it solely for themselves. That's not necessarily a bad thing - someone who's zero maintenance isn't really all that easy to befriend, because they don't need you much (or more specifically don't need your input.) As with everything, the trick is in the balance. Low maintenance is better than zero maintenance or high maintenance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shell666 0 #57 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote A high maintenance woman is one who cannot maintain her own sense of self/self esteem/values/standards and needs someone else to do it for her. Or one who needs artificial products/materials/whatnots to do it for her. Do you use store bought shave cream? Deodorant? Toothpaste? edited to add - meant If you do, then you sound like YOUR definition of "high maintenance" ... Just because a woman CHOOSES to wear makeup and make herself look "pretty", doesn't mean she's "high maintenance". 'Shell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #58 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Quote A high maintenance woman is one who cannot maintain her own sense of self/self esteem/values/standards and needs someone else to do it for her. Or one who needs artificial products/materials/whatnots to do it for her. Do you use store bought shave cream? Deodorant? Toothpaste? edited to add - meant If you do, then you sound like YOUR definition of "high maintenance" ... Just because a woman CHOOSES to wear makeup and make herself look "pretty", doesn't mean she's "high maintenance". Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwings 0 #59 October 1, 2007 Quote Do you use store bought shave cream? Deodorant? Toothpaste? edited to add - meant If you do, then you sound like YOUR definition of "high maintenance" ... Just because a woman CHOOSES to wear makeup and make herself look "pretty", doesn't mean she's "high maintenance". If having and wearing makeup makes me high maintenance, then shucks. Why don't you just go to the police station in a red clown suit and let everybody know what we're doing here? I have a phobia for moobs. Thanks, youknowwhoyouare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #60 October 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face. What a load of crap if some one makes a considered choice to do somthing regardless of how many people are doing it, it's a valid choice, and need not have anything at all to do with "following the Programming"You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #61 October 1, 2007 Quote I guarantee NOTHING she owns has an exp. date of two years on it. Really? Mirage rigs have less than a 2 year expiry date? PD canopies? Alti 2 Altimeters?Petzl Harnesses? Wild Country quick draws? Beal slings? That was a joke, but I'm going to call you on this. I dont see expiry dates on any of the things I mentioned. If you use soap, it'll be gone in 2 years. Same with Sunblock, etc. I don't think you fully grasp the concept of no make-up. Truth is, "high maintenance" can't be summed up on an internet forum. But for me, if someone is wearing make-up - it's fundamentally dishonest. Like a man with a wig. Or shoe inserts to make himself look taller. What you see is NOT what you get. That's lying, even if it's become accepted as customary. Cosmetic plastic surgery is just more lying. (Traumatic Reconstructive PS excluded here) Age is a badge of rank. It's proof we've been smart enough or lucky enough to survive. I've earned my wrinkles, and my life partner has earned theirs. They don't need to cover them from me. It's OK. It's life. It's time, and time will win, make-up or not. Still outspoken, I know, but my mind won't change. As an adendum, I think it's important to add that the way I feel shouldn't be seen as a slight against people who wear make-up. It simply doesn't apeal to me, unless they're on stage and need to project expressions to an audience a hundred feet away. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #62 October 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face. What a load of crap if some one makes a considered choice to do somthing regardless of how many people are doing it, it's a valid choice, and need not have anything at all to do with "following the Programming" hehe HEHE BWAHAHAHAHA!----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #63 October 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face. What a load of crap if some one makes a considered choice to do somthing regardless of how many people are doing it, it's a valid choice, and need not have anything at all to do with "following the Programming" hehe HEHE BWAHAHAHAHA! Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. Granted... I still feel fat when I look at any of those magazines in the supermarket..... but some conditioning, I just can't get past. - and Tonto, again. Thank you for your opinion, and for justifying it. Although there was no need to, your explaination made a lot more sense then the "any makeup" comment. No apologies needed though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,133 #64 October 1, 2007 There was an article in our local paper on this very topic yesterday: here That said, I kind of like the definitions that involve validation by someone else. And yes, I'd consider ordering a "arge glass of ice, half-filled with regular coffee, not iced coffee, but coffee over ice. The other half — equal parts skim milk and half & half, then add one pump of sugar-free caramel flavoring and one pump sugar-free vanilla flavoring, finishing it off with one package of Equal and one package of Splenda." to be high maintenance. Of course, I don't currently own any makeup (mostly because I'm lazy, not because I'm making a statement of any kind), so my standards may not be everyone's Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SarahC07 0 #65 October 1, 2007 QuoteTruth is, "high maintenance" can't be summed up on an internet forum. But for me, if someone is wearing make-up - it's fundamentally dishonest. Like a man with a wig. Or shoe inserts to make himself look taller. What you see is NOT what you get. That's lying, even if it's become accepted as customary. Cosmetic plastic surgery is just more lying. (Traumatic Reconstructive PS excluded here) Age is a badge of rank. It's proof we've been smart enough or lucky enough to survive. I've earned my wrinkles, and my life partner has earned theirs. They don't need to cover them from me. It's OK. It's life. It's time, and time will win, make-up or not. Still outspoken, I know, but my mind won't change. As an adendum, I think it's important to add that the way I feel shouldn't be seen as a slight against people who wear make-up. It simply doesn't apeal to me, unless they're on stage and need to project expressions to an audience a hundred feet away. I wish more people thought this way and acted accordingly... practiced what they preached. In my case, make up is used to cover/lessen the appearance of my imperfections, not age - but the same rational applies. Kudos to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #66 October 1, 2007 I don't see why it's such an offensive phrase to many women. So you're "high maintenance"--whatever that means, and it seems to mean something slightly different to each responder. Who cares? High maintenance to me means knowing what I want & having preferences that I'm not afraid to voice. It's means not always or even often settling. IMO, you only get one life, and I'm certainly not going to live mine always going with the flow. Maintenance is a good thing, imo. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #67 October 1, 2007 I'm very confused about this whole thread, and I think my self-esteem is starting to suffer . I only wear make-up in the winter, because in the summer I rely on sun damage to cover up the other blemishes...lol. So right now, I really shouldn't be high maintenance. However, the past couple of weeks have been baaaaaaad. I think I've been more high-maintenance in the last couple of weeks than ever before in my life, being a general pain in the ass to some really good people. But here I am fixed and ready to go in less than 15 minutes. My head's spinning. I don't know where I fit in...lol. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #68 October 1, 2007 Quote Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. So it's merely conincidence that millions upon millions of women apply pretty much the same pigments in pretty much the same manner for pretty much the same reasons????? Surely you do not believe this. Social conditioning is neither right nor wrong. Cultures depend on non-critical 'thinking' by the vast majority of it's members ...or the culture collapses. The masses who delude themselves with 'considered choice' are serving the critical societal function of ...cultural glue. Social conditioning is so powerful, otherwise reasonably intelligent individuals honestly believe they are making a "considered choice". That's why I posited a litmus test of 'considered choice' If it is the same 'choice as the overwhelming majority ...it's pretty much a lock that you are following your conditioning and rising above nothing (the major exception being survival [e.g. praying to the gods to keep from being stoned to death]). The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #69 October 1, 2007 Quote*** The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation. This is where you would be very wrong, I make it part of my professional life to try and instill a questioning mind in all of my charges. Especially the so called "Cultural Norms", we even focus on the make up industry as a part of that critical thinking. So what you may think is apparent, is very much a misconception on your part.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #70 October 1, 2007 Since the use of make-up (or lack thereof) has been a characteristic around which much of the discussion has revolved, it may be worth considering that some professional situations have unspoken -- but very well understood -- norms that women ***in order to be considered professional*** -- must (not should) wear make-up of a certain conservative type. E.g., do we ever see Condaleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton without some make-up? In my last job, I wore make-up every day (along with full suits, heels, & minimal jewelry). It was all very "professional," i.e, neutral tones and light colors, nothing gaudy, but that was part of the expectation. And it impacted how I was treated. Conversely, when I spent my undergrad summers as a counselor at a Girl Scout camp in the San Bernadino Mts, I never wore make-up. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #71 October 1, 2007 "Professional" Interesting segway.... lets go there for a minute, because I do agree with you to some extent and I want to see what your thoughts might be on teasing out specifics. OK. I'm a doctor. I have my patients with whom I have a professional relationship. This morning, I received a page that one of my patients had been seen and evaluated by the labor and delivery nurses overnight for problems (bleeding at 25weeks gestation). I am off today. I could have had one of my partners go and see her. He dresses VERY professionally. But... she doesn't have that relationship with him. Or... I could get up and go see her. Which I did. White tank, tan cargo pants, no make up, no white coat. I walked in the room and did everything a doctor should do. Explained the what, why and where do we go from here. I really don't think it mattered to her whether I had lipstick on or not. It was the fact that I was there, I cared and I was helping her. That is more "professional" than any out ward appearance. However... with your argument and logic, I did NOT go and see my other partners patient (even though I was there and it would have been nice to him to have done that) because without having that relationship, I think it would be inappropriate for this casually dressed woman to come walking in and giving orders.... So I do agree with you.... kind of. - But societal norms do establish what is and isn't high maintenance. The reason that I had begun this thread was because I had gotten into a discussion about whether I was hgh maintenance (which I feel that Im not) and wanted outside opinions on what it means. Is it "bad" to be high maintenance? No. But I do not want to be that myself. I consider myself independant, self-reliant and I try not to burden too many with my problems or concerns. I pride myself in leaving a small footprint on the soil when I leave. But is it bad to have others like to be well catered to? or be specific with his/her needs? or wear makeup? Not at all. I just don't feel that I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #72 October 1, 2007 Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #73 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #74 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? Depends on how much money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #75 October 1, 2007 Hey, Tonto! Just an FYI - Makeup and skin care products actually do have expirations - just not required to be printed on the labels. http://www.realsimple.com/realsimple/package/0,21861,1218593-1573139,00.html http://www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/cosmeticdangers2.aspxLife is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Tonto 1 #61 October 1, 2007 Quote I guarantee NOTHING she owns has an exp. date of two years on it. Really? Mirage rigs have less than a 2 year expiry date? PD canopies? Alti 2 Altimeters?Petzl Harnesses? Wild Country quick draws? Beal slings? That was a joke, but I'm going to call you on this. I dont see expiry dates on any of the things I mentioned. If you use soap, it'll be gone in 2 years. Same with Sunblock, etc. I don't think you fully grasp the concept of no make-up. Truth is, "high maintenance" can't be summed up on an internet forum. But for me, if someone is wearing make-up - it's fundamentally dishonest. Like a man with a wig. Or shoe inserts to make himself look taller. What you see is NOT what you get. That's lying, even if it's become accepted as customary. Cosmetic plastic surgery is just more lying. (Traumatic Reconstructive PS excluded here) Age is a badge of rank. It's proof we've been smart enough or lucky enough to survive. I've earned my wrinkles, and my life partner has earned theirs. They don't need to cover them from me. It's OK. It's life. It's time, and time will win, make-up or not. Still outspoken, I know, but my mind won't change. As an adendum, I think it's important to add that the way I feel shouldn't be seen as a slight against people who wear make-up. It simply doesn't apeal to me, unless they're on stage and need to project expressions to an audience a hundred feet away. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #62 October 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face. What a load of crap if some one makes a considered choice to do somthing regardless of how many people are doing it, it's a valid choice, and need not have anything at all to do with "following the Programming" hehe HEHE BWAHAHAHAHA!----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #63 October 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face. What a load of crap if some one makes a considered choice to do somthing regardless of how many people are doing it, it's a valid choice, and need not have anything at all to do with "following the Programming" hehe HEHE BWAHAHAHAHA! Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. Granted... I still feel fat when I look at any of those magazines in the supermarket..... but some conditioning, I just can't get past. - and Tonto, again. Thank you for your opinion, and for justifying it. Although there was no need to, your explaination made a lot more sense then the "any makeup" comment. No apologies needed though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,133 #64 October 1, 2007 There was an article in our local paper on this very topic yesterday: here That said, I kind of like the definitions that involve validation by someone else. And yes, I'd consider ordering a "arge glass of ice, half-filled with regular coffee, not iced coffee, but coffee over ice. The other half — equal parts skim milk and half & half, then add one pump of sugar-free caramel flavoring and one pump sugar-free vanilla flavoring, finishing it off with one package of Equal and one package of Splenda." to be high maintenance. Of course, I don't currently own any makeup (mostly because I'm lazy, not because I'm making a statement of any kind), so my standards may not be everyone's Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SarahC07 0 #65 October 1, 2007 QuoteTruth is, "high maintenance" can't be summed up on an internet forum. But for me, if someone is wearing make-up - it's fundamentally dishonest. Like a man with a wig. Or shoe inserts to make himself look taller. What you see is NOT what you get. That's lying, even if it's become accepted as customary. Cosmetic plastic surgery is just more lying. (Traumatic Reconstructive PS excluded here) Age is a badge of rank. It's proof we've been smart enough or lucky enough to survive. I've earned my wrinkles, and my life partner has earned theirs. They don't need to cover them from me. It's OK. It's life. It's time, and time will win, make-up or not. Still outspoken, I know, but my mind won't change. As an adendum, I think it's important to add that the way I feel shouldn't be seen as a slight against people who wear make-up. It simply doesn't apeal to me, unless they're on stage and need to project expressions to an audience a hundred feet away. I wish more people thought this way and acted accordingly... practiced what they preached. In my case, make up is used to cover/lessen the appearance of my imperfections, not age - but the same rational applies. Kudos to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #66 October 1, 2007 I don't see why it's such an offensive phrase to many women. So you're "high maintenance"--whatever that means, and it seems to mean something slightly different to each responder. Who cares? High maintenance to me means knowing what I want & having preferences that I'm not afraid to voice. It's means not always or even often settling. IMO, you only get one life, and I'm certainly not going to live mine always going with the flow. Maintenance is a good thing, imo. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #67 October 1, 2007 I'm very confused about this whole thread, and I think my self-esteem is starting to suffer . I only wear make-up in the winter, because in the summer I rely on sun damage to cover up the other blemishes...lol. So right now, I really shouldn't be high maintenance. However, the past couple of weeks have been baaaaaaad. I think I've been more high-maintenance in the last couple of weeks than ever before in my life, being a general pain in the ass to some really good people. But here I am fixed and ready to go in less than 15 minutes. My head's spinning. I don't know where I fit in...lol. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #68 October 1, 2007 Quote Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. So it's merely conincidence that millions upon millions of women apply pretty much the same pigments in pretty much the same manner for pretty much the same reasons????? Surely you do not believe this. Social conditioning is neither right nor wrong. Cultures depend on non-critical 'thinking' by the vast majority of it's members ...or the culture collapses. The masses who delude themselves with 'considered choice' are serving the critical societal function of ...cultural glue. Social conditioning is so powerful, otherwise reasonably intelligent individuals honestly believe they are making a "considered choice". That's why I posited a litmus test of 'considered choice' If it is the same 'choice as the overwhelming majority ...it's pretty much a lock that you are following your conditioning and rising above nothing (the major exception being survival [e.g. praying to the gods to keep from being stoned to death]). The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #69 October 1, 2007 Quote*** The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation. This is where you would be very wrong, I make it part of my professional life to try and instill a questioning mind in all of my charges. Especially the so called "Cultural Norms", we even focus on the make up industry as a part of that critical thinking. So what you may think is apparent, is very much a misconception on your part.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #70 October 1, 2007 Since the use of make-up (or lack thereof) has been a characteristic around which much of the discussion has revolved, it may be worth considering that some professional situations have unspoken -- but very well understood -- norms that women ***in order to be considered professional*** -- must (not should) wear make-up of a certain conservative type. E.g., do we ever see Condaleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton without some make-up? In my last job, I wore make-up every day (along with full suits, heels, & minimal jewelry). It was all very "professional," i.e, neutral tones and light colors, nothing gaudy, but that was part of the expectation. And it impacted how I was treated. Conversely, when I spent my undergrad summers as a counselor at a Girl Scout camp in the San Bernadino Mts, I never wore make-up. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #71 October 1, 2007 "Professional" Interesting segway.... lets go there for a minute, because I do agree with you to some extent and I want to see what your thoughts might be on teasing out specifics. OK. I'm a doctor. I have my patients with whom I have a professional relationship. This morning, I received a page that one of my patients had been seen and evaluated by the labor and delivery nurses overnight for problems (bleeding at 25weeks gestation). I am off today. I could have had one of my partners go and see her. He dresses VERY professionally. But... she doesn't have that relationship with him. Or... I could get up and go see her. Which I did. White tank, tan cargo pants, no make up, no white coat. I walked in the room and did everything a doctor should do. Explained the what, why and where do we go from here. I really don't think it mattered to her whether I had lipstick on or not. It was the fact that I was there, I cared and I was helping her. That is more "professional" than any out ward appearance. However... with your argument and logic, I did NOT go and see my other partners patient (even though I was there and it would have been nice to him to have done that) because without having that relationship, I think it would be inappropriate for this casually dressed woman to come walking in and giving orders.... So I do agree with you.... kind of. - But societal norms do establish what is and isn't high maintenance. The reason that I had begun this thread was because I had gotten into a discussion about whether I was hgh maintenance (which I feel that Im not) and wanted outside opinions on what it means. Is it "bad" to be high maintenance? No. But I do not want to be that myself. I consider myself independant, self-reliant and I try not to burden too many with my problems or concerns. I pride myself in leaving a small footprint on the soil when I leave. But is it bad to have others like to be well catered to? or be specific with his/her needs? or wear makeup? Not at all. I just don't feel that I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #72 October 1, 2007 Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #73 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #74 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? Depends on how much money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #75 October 1, 2007 Hey, Tonto! Just an FYI - Makeup and skin care products actually do have expirations - just not required to be printed on the labels. http://www.realsimple.com/realsimple/package/0,21861,1218593-1573139,00.html http://www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/cosmeticdangers2.aspxLife is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
kbordson 8 #63 October 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Funny thing about choice. When you 'choose' to do something virtually every other woman in society does, you haven't CHOSEN anything. You're just following the programming ...like the one that tells you you look "pretty" with pigments on your face. What a load of crap if some one makes a considered choice to do somthing regardless of how many people are doing it, it's a valid choice, and need not have anything at all to do with "following the Programming" hehe HEHE BWAHAHAHAHA! Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. Granted... I still feel fat when I look at any of those magazines in the supermarket..... but some conditioning, I just can't get past. - and Tonto, again. Thank you for your opinion, and for justifying it. Although there was no need to, your explaination made a lot more sense then the "any makeup" comment. No apologies needed though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,133 #64 October 1, 2007 There was an article in our local paper on this very topic yesterday: here That said, I kind of like the definitions that involve validation by someone else. And yes, I'd consider ordering a "arge glass of ice, half-filled with regular coffee, not iced coffee, but coffee over ice. The other half — equal parts skim milk and half & half, then add one pump of sugar-free caramel flavoring and one pump sugar-free vanilla flavoring, finishing it off with one package of Equal and one package of Splenda." to be high maintenance. Of course, I don't currently own any makeup (mostly because I'm lazy, not because I'm making a statement of any kind), so my standards may not be everyone's Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SarahC07 0 #65 October 1, 2007 QuoteTruth is, "high maintenance" can't be summed up on an internet forum. But for me, if someone is wearing make-up - it's fundamentally dishonest. Like a man with a wig. Or shoe inserts to make himself look taller. What you see is NOT what you get. That's lying, even if it's become accepted as customary. Cosmetic plastic surgery is just more lying. (Traumatic Reconstructive PS excluded here) Age is a badge of rank. It's proof we've been smart enough or lucky enough to survive. I've earned my wrinkles, and my life partner has earned theirs. They don't need to cover them from me. It's OK. It's life. It's time, and time will win, make-up or not. Still outspoken, I know, but my mind won't change. As an adendum, I think it's important to add that the way I feel shouldn't be seen as a slight against people who wear make-up. It simply doesn't apeal to me, unless they're on stage and need to project expressions to an audience a hundred feet away. I wish more people thought this way and acted accordingly... practiced what they preached. In my case, make up is used to cover/lessen the appearance of my imperfections, not age - but the same rational applies. Kudos to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #66 October 1, 2007 I don't see why it's such an offensive phrase to many women. So you're "high maintenance"--whatever that means, and it seems to mean something slightly different to each responder. Who cares? High maintenance to me means knowing what I want & having preferences that I'm not afraid to voice. It's means not always or even often settling. IMO, you only get one life, and I'm certainly not going to live mine always going with the flow. Maintenance is a good thing, imo. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #67 October 1, 2007 I'm very confused about this whole thread, and I think my self-esteem is starting to suffer . I only wear make-up in the winter, because in the summer I rely on sun damage to cover up the other blemishes...lol. So right now, I really shouldn't be high maintenance. However, the past couple of weeks have been baaaaaaad. I think I've been more high-maintenance in the last couple of weeks than ever before in my life, being a general pain in the ass to some really good people. But here I am fixed and ready to go in less than 15 minutes. My head's spinning. I don't know where I fit in...lol. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jenfly00 0 #68 October 1, 2007 Quote Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. So it's merely conincidence that millions upon millions of women apply pretty much the same pigments in pretty much the same manner for pretty much the same reasons????? Surely you do not believe this. Social conditioning is neither right nor wrong. Cultures depend on non-critical 'thinking' by the vast majority of it's members ...or the culture collapses. The masses who delude themselves with 'considered choice' are serving the critical societal function of ...cultural glue. Social conditioning is so powerful, otherwise reasonably intelligent individuals honestly believe they are making a "considered choice". That's why I posited a litmus test of 'considered choice' If it is the same 'choice as the overwhelming majority ...it's pretty much a lock that you are following your conditioning and rising above nothing (the major exception being survival [e.g. praying to the gods to keep from being stoned to death]). The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #69 October 1, 2007 Quote*** The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation. This is where you would be very wrong, I make it part of my professional life to try and instill a questioning mind in all of my charges. Especially the so called "Cultural Norms", we even focus on the make up industry as a part of that critical thinking. So what you may think is apparent, is very much a misconception on your part.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #70 October 1, 2007 Since the use of make-up (or lack thereof) has been a characteristic around which much of the discussion has revolved, it may be worth considering that some professional situations have unspoken -- but very well understood -- norms that women ***in order to be considered professional*** -- must (not should) wear make-up of a certain conservative type. E.g., do we ever see Condaleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton without some make-up? In my last job, I wore make-up every day (along with full suits, heels, & minimal jewelry). It was all very "professional," i.e, neutral tones and light colors, nothing gaudy, but that was part of the expectation. And it impacted how I was treated. Conversely, when I spent my undergrad summers as a counselor at a Girl Scout camp in the San Bernadino Mts, I never wore make-up. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #71 October 1, 2007 "Professional" Interesting segway.... lets go there for a minute, because I do agree with you to some extent and I want to see what your thoughts might be on teasing out specifics. OK. I'm a doctor. I have my patients with whom I have a professional relationship. This morning, I received a page that one of my patients had been seen and evaluated by the labor and delivery nurses overnight for problems (bleeding at 25weeks gestation). I am off today. I could have had one of my partners go and see her. He dresses VERY professionally. But... she doesn't have that relationship with him. Or... I could get up and go see her. Which I did. White tank, tan cargo pants, no make up, no white coat. I walked in the room and did everything a doctor should do. Explained the what, why and where do we go from here. I really don't think it mattered to her whether I had lipstick on or not. It was the fact that I was there, I cared and I was helping her. That is more "professional" than any out ward appearance. However... with your argument and logic, I did NOT go and see my other partners patient (even though I was there and it would have been nice to him to have done that) because without having that relationship, I think it would be inappropriate for this casually dressed woman to come walking in and giving orders.... So I do agree with you.... kind of. - But societal norms do establish what is and isn't high maintenance. The reason that I had begun this thread was because I had gotten into a discussion about whether I was hgh maintenance (which I feel that Im not) and wanted outside opinions on what it means. Is it "bad" to be high maintenance? No. But I do not want to be that myself. I consider myself independant, self-reliant and I try not to burden too many with my problems or concerns. I pride myself in leaving a small footprint on the soil when I leave. But is it bad to have others like to be well catered to? or be specific with his/her needs? or wear makeup? Not at all. I just don't feel that I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #72 October 1, 2007 Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #73 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #74 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? Depends on how much money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #75 October 1, 2007 Hey, Tonto! Just an FYI - Makeup and skin care products actually do have expirations - just not required to be printed on the labels. http://www.realsimple.com/realsimple/package/0,21861,1218593-1573139,00.html http://www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/cosmeticdangers2.aspxLife is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
wmw999 2,133 #64 October 1, 2007 There was an article in our local paper on this very topic yesterday: here That said, I kind of like the definitions that involve validation by someone else. And yes, I'd consider ordering a "arge glass of ice, half-filled with regular coffee, not iced coffee, but coffee over ice. The other half — equal parts skim milk and half & half, then add one pump of sugar-free caramel flavoring and one pump sugar-free vanilla flavoring, finishing it off with one package of Equal and one package of Splenda." to be high maintenance. Of course, I don't currently own any makeup (mostly because I'm lazy, not because I'm making a statement of any kind), so my standards may not be everyone's Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC07 0 #65 October 1, 2007 QuoteTruth is, "high maintenance" can't be summed up on an internet forum. But for me, if someone is wearing make-up - it's fundamentally dishonest. Like a man with a wig. Or shoe inserts to make himself look taller. What you see is NOT what you get. That's lying, even if it's become accepted as customary. Cosmetic plastic surgery is just more lying. (Traumatic Reconstructive PS excluded here) Age is a badge of rank. It's proof we've been smart enough or lucky enough to survive. I've earned my wrinkles, and my life partner has earned theirs. They don't need to cover them from me. It's OK. It's life. It's time, and time will win, make-up or not. Still outspoken, I know, but my mind won't change. As an adendum, I think it's important to add that the way I feel shouldn't be seen as a slight against people who wear make-up. It simply doesn't apeal to me, unless they're on stage and need to project expressions to an audience a hundred feet away. I wish more people thought this way and acted accordingly... practiced what they preached. In my case, make up is used to cover/lessen the appearance of my imperfections, not age - but the same rational applies. Kudos to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #66 October 1, 2007 I don't see why it's such an offensive phrase to many women. So you're "high maintenance"--whatever that means, and it seems to mean something slightly different to each responder. Who cares? High maintenance to me means knowing what I want & having preferences that I'm not afraid to voice. It's means not always or even often settling. IMO, you only get one life, and I'm certainly not going to live mine always going with the flow. Maintenance is a good thing, imo. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #67 October 1, 2007 I'm very confused about this whole thread, and I think my self-esteem is starting to suffer . I only wear make-up in the winter, because in the summer I rely on sun damage to cover up the other blemishes...lol. So right now, I really shouldn't be high maintenance. However, the past couple of weeks have been baaaaaaad. I think I've been more high-maintenance in the last couple of weeks than ever before in my life, being a general pain in the ass to some really good people. But here I am fixed and ready to go in less than 15 minutes. My head's spinning. I don't know where I fit in...lol. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #68 October 1, 2007 Quote Actually he makes a valid point. Just because "society" has decided that beauaty is smooth and consistently colored skin without blemishes and accented eyes and lips... "I" am the one that believes it or not. It doesn't make that social conditioning right or wrong Consider the practice of female circumcision (female genital mutilation) It's thier societal "norm"... but it doesn't make it right or even here with male circumcision. What you do for "beauty" might be what society has conditioned you.... but as free thinking adults, we should have the ability to rise above (or try to) that and decide for ourselves. So it's merely conincidence that millions upon millions of women apply pretty much the same pigments in pretty much the same manner for pretty much the same reasons????? Surely you do not believe this. Social conditioning is neither right nor wrong. Cultures depend on non-critical 'thinking' by the vast majority of it's members ...or the culture collapses. The masses who delude themselves with 'considered choice' are serving the critical societal function of ...cultural glue. Social conditioning is so powerful, otherwise reasonably intelligent individuals honestly believe they are making a "considered choice". That's why I posited a litmus test of 'considered choice' If it is the same 'choice as the overwhelming majority ...it's pretty much a lock that you are following your conditioning and rising above nothing (the major exception being survival [e.g. praying to the gods to keep from being stoned to death]). The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #69 October 1, 2007 Quote*** The only apparent truth in squeak's response is his ignorance of enculturation. This is where you would be very wrong, I make it part of my professional life to try and instill a questioning mind in all of my charges. Especially the so called "Cultural Norms", we even focus on the make up industry as a part of that critical thinking. So what you may think is apparent, is very much a misconception on your part.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #70 October 1, 2007 Since the use of make-up (or lack thereof) has been a characteristic around which much of the discussion has revolved, it may be worth considering that some professional situations have unspoken -- but very well understood -- norms that women ***in order to be considered professional*** -- must (not should) wear make-up of a certain conservative type. E.g., do we ever see Condaleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton without some make-up? In my last job, I wore make-up every day (along with full suits, heels, & minimal jewelry). It was all very "professional," i.e, neutral tones and light colors, nothing gaudy, but that was part of the expectation. And it impacted how I was treated. Conversely, when I spent my undergrad summers as a counselor at a Girl Scout camp in the San Bernadino Mts, I never wore make-up. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #71 October 1, 2007 "Professional" Interesting segway.... lets go there for a minute, because I do agree with you to some extent and I want to see what your thoughts might be on teasing out specifics. OK. I'm a doctor. I have my patients with whom I have a professional relationship. This morning, I received a page that one of my patients had been seen and evaluated by the labor and delivery nurses overnight for problems (bleeding at 25weeks gestation). I am off today. I could have had one of my partners go and see her. He dresses VERY professionally. But... she doesn't have that relationship with him. Or... I could get up and go see her. Which I did. White tank, tan cargo pants, no make up, no white coat. I walked in the room and did everything a doctor should do. Explained the what, why and where do we go from here. I really don't think it mattered to her whether I had lipstick on or not. It was the fact that I was there, I cared and I was helping her. That is more "professional" than any out ward appearance. However... with your argument and logic, I did NOT go and see my other partners patient (even though I was there and it would have been nice to him to have done that) because without having that relationship, I think it would be inappropriate for this casually dressed woman to come walking in and giving orders.... So I do agree with you.... kind of. - But societal norms do establish what is and isn't high maintenance. The reason that I had begun this thread was because I had gotten into a discussion about whether I was hgh maintenance (which I feel that Im not) and wanted outside opinions on what it means. Is it "bad" to be high maintenance? No. But I do not want to be that myself. I consider myself independant, self-reliant and I try not to burden too many with my problems or concerns. I pride myself in leaving a small footprint on the soil when I leave. But is it bad to have others like to be well catered to? or be specific with his/her needs? or wear makeup? Not at all. I just don't feel that I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #72 October 1, 2007 Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #73 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #74 October 1, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Just curious.... How would you guys describe "High Maintaince." A bitch that cost me money. If I was to put a specific name to that, would it be a PA? Depends on how much money.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #75 October 1, 2007 Hey, Tonto! Just an FYI - Makeup and skin care products actually do have expirations - just not required to be printed on the labels. http://www.realsimple.com/realsimple/package/0,21861,1218593-1573139,00.html http://www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/cosmeticdangers2.aspxLife is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
