I can fall out of my rig!!!

[propilot 0]

Ok, so I have read the posts about falling out through the hole in the back of a sport rig but didnt give it too much thought since the posts/articles implied that it was more for people with very small containers.

...so Im bored tongiht and read this article

http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/fallout.html


and decided to give it a try.


I put on my rig, tighten down the legstraps and chest straps as I have them tightned when I skydive (read, tight).

In about 10 seconds I could get out of it, through the hole in the back. I bent over, moved the leg straps towards my knees, and pulled the rig over my head. plop...off it comes.

I'm shocked.

I have been in a sit posistion before where the legstraps came up towards my knees...all i would have taken is a premie...


What do I do now? The rig is only 10 months old. I dont want to skydive with it untill this is fixed.

[BIGUN 1,053]

See Jan Meyer's article on her rigger made solution.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GravityGirl 0]

Have your rigger put a butt strap on it so the leg straps don't come down.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Ok, so I have read the posts about falling out through the hole in the back of a sport rig but didnt give it too much thought since the posts/articles implied that it was more for people with very small containers.

...so Im bored tongiht and read this article

http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/fallout.html

What????
You're bored?
Read the rest of the articles.

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and decided to give it a try.


I put on my rig, tighten down the legstraps and chest straps as I have them tightned when I skydive (read, tight).

In about 10 seconds I could get out of it, through the hole in the back. I bent over, moved the leg straps towards my knees, and pulled the rig over my head. plop...off it comes.

I'm shocked.

I have been in a sit posistion before where the legstraps came up towards my knees...all i would have taken is a premie...


What do I do now? The rig is only 10 months old. I dont want to skydive with it untill this is fixed.

Contact your local rigger and send him the url for the article.
If you have any questions, contact me via email, phone or snail mail listed on MakeItHappen.com
Over the phone I can describe how to measure for the overall finished length.

It should only cost 15-20 bucks.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[deathtrap 0]

You mean you might actually DIE while skydiving?

I've got a real simple solution. Tie your shoelaces together before leaving the plane, it wont be possible to completely leave the rig. Saved my ass about a half-dozen times.

There are so many ways to kill yourself while skydiving but its the most unrealistic ones that seem to get the most attention. Both recent incidents were regarding *tandem* passengers that, arguably, should have never been allowed to jump in the first place. If slipping legstraps are really a problem in your skydive, get them fixed! If you aren't qualified to recognize a maintenance issue perhaps you should reconsider your involvement in the sport. There are other "extreme" sports, like figure skating, you can take part in to impress the fella's.

[propilot 0]

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You mean you might actually DIE while skydiving?

I've got a real simple solution. Tie your shoelaces together before leaving the plane, it wont be possible to completely leave the rig. Saved my ass about a half-dozen times.

There are so many ways to kill yourself while skydiving but its the most unrealistic ones that seem to get the most attention. Both recent incidents were regarding *tandem* passengers that, arguably, should have never been allowed to jump in the first place. If slipping legstraps are really a problem in your skydive, get them fixed! If you aren't qualified to recognize a maintenance issue perhaps you should reconsider your involvement in the sport. There are other "extreme" sports, like figure skating, you can take part in to impress the fella's.

You know, replies like yours are why many people wont post on dz.com. Wtf are you talking about. No $hit you can die, your jumping out of plane. There are lots of ways to die while skydiving, falling out of one's harness should not be one of them! I dont give a $hit if the recent events are tandems. The fact is, I can fall out of my rig.

Even if there is a one in a million chance I dont want that hanging on my mind when im about to jump. Like you obviously know, there are already lots of ways to die skydiving.

Hell, why dont you jump with an old 70s rig with a belly mounted reserve I mean, sheesh, everyone knows you can die skydiving, why not make it more dangerous.

Why would I want to spend 15 bucks and 30 min of my time to ensure I wont fall out of my rig. What a stupid idea. Mx issue? my rig is almost brand new, this is not a mx issue. Wow, I guess i better shine up my bowling shoes cause im obviously not cut out to recogize a simple mx issue.

Go back under the bridge troll!

[deathtrap 0]

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You know, replies like yours are why many people wont post on dz.com.

It's panic stricken reactionary posts like yours that get people's eyes rolling back in thier heads and bring the trolls out from under the bridges. That knife cuts both ways. Maybe try a search next time.

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There are lots of ways to die while skydiving, falling out of one's harness should not be one of them! I dont give a $hit if the recent events are tandems. The fact is, I can fall out of my rig.

Even if there is a one in a million chance I dont want that hanging on my mind when im about to jump.

That "one in a million" statement is a load of crap too. If you don't want it on your mind, DO something about it- don't let your legstraps get around your knees. Keep your gear maintained so you don't have to worry about a premie. Inform your local friends about the issue and let them know what you did to solve it. DON'T come on an internet forum where many new jumpers (and yet to be jumpers) come for information and start an "OHMYGAWDWER'REALLGONNADIE!!!!!!!!" thread.

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Hell, why dont you jump with an old 70s rig with a belly mounted reserve I mean, sheesh, everyone knows you can die skydiving, why not make it more dangerous.

Many rigs in the '70's had butt straps, maybe you should take your own advice. You seem to have the "new is always better" attitude. How old is the plane you fly? Is there anything inherently unsafe about it because of it's age? My guess is no, not when used within it's design parameters. Guess what, same thing applies to skydiving gear!

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Mx issue? my rig is almost brand new, this is not a mx issue. Wow, I guess i better shine up my bowling shoes cause im obviously not cut out to recogize a simple mx issue.

If you're worried about a premie, it IS a maintenance issue. If you feel confident that your rig is secure enough, pull your legstraps back up and/or have the strap added. Ever worry about a premie when you're head down? Gonna add a "cross your heart" strap too?

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Go back under the bridge troll!

Not until I'm done feeding.

[phoenixlpr 0]

You don't have to play Hudini in skydiving.

[MB38 0]

If only belly bands were cool.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[freeflysteve 0]

just gone out to get some extra shoe laces.
thought that was really funny.

Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting!

[Big_Red 0]

Let me apologize now if this fuels the fire...

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It's panic stricken reactionary posts like yours that get people's eyes rolling back in thier heads and bring the trolls out from under the bridges.

Actually...my eyes are rolling back in my head cause of your post...not propilot's.

As a newbie I want to point out that the ""OHMYGAWDWER'REALLGONNADIE!!!!!!!!" threads" don't scare me or stop me from posting on DZ.com. The People who want to make posts like yours and just generally want to rip into people are the reason why I think twice before coming on this site.

Sad really...all this information available and all it takes is a couple of wanks to ruin it.

Derec Davies
Big_Red

[mattyblast 0]

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If you aren't qualified to recognize a maintenance issue perhaps you should reconsider your involvement in the sport. There are other "extreme" sports, like figure skating, you can take part in to impress the fella's.

Well, let's see. Propilot:

1. Stayed informed about current events and saw that falling out of the harness has become a current issue of note.

2. Decided to take the initiative to try and slip out of her own harness to determine how much of a risk to her this particular issue was.

3. Found out that it was shockingly easy to slip out of the harness.

4. Made the decision not to skydive until she could resolve the issue somehow.

5. Came on to DZ.com to get some input as to how to fix the situation.

Thanks to Gravitygirl and the other helpful folks in this thread, she now has some practical steps she can take to eliminate this risk for her and make her feel more comfortable about the situation. And now you're telling her she should take up ice-skating because she didn't recognize a maintenance issue?

Yes, I'm a newbie, but IMHO it doesn't take thousands of jumps to see that what Propilot did should be commended, and the skydivers who don't do #1-5 above should perhaps be the ones to sharpen up the ice skates.

"DOOR!!!"

[za_skydiver 0]

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You mean you might actually DIE while skydiving?

I've got a real simple solution. Tie your shoelaces together before leaving the plane, it wont be possible to completely leave the rig. Saved my ass about a half-dozen times.

There are so many ways to kill yourself while skydiving but its the most unrealistic ones that seem to get the most attention. Both recent incidents were regarding *tandem* passengers that, arguably, should have never been allowed to jump in the first place. If slipping legstraps are really a problem in your skydive, get them fixed! If you aren't qualified to recognize a maintenance issue perhaps you should reconsider your involvement in the sport. There are other "extreme" sports, like figure skating, you can take part in to impress the fella's.

Deathtrap, you make me laugh! That reply you gave had me rolling on the floor! figure skating... lol

Some dream of flying, i live the dream...

[deathtrap 0]

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Well, let's see. Propilot:

1. Stayed informed about current events and saw that falling out of the harness has become a current issue of note.

2. Decided to take the initiative to try and slip out of her own harness to determine how much of a risk to her this particular issue was.

3. Found out that it was shockingly easy to slip out of the harness.

4. Made the decision not to skydive until she could resolve the issue somehow.

5. Came on to DZ.com to get some input as to how to fix the situation.

None of which required a "I can fall out of my rig!!!" post. Hell, he even had the fix in his first post.....

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As a newbie I want to point out that the ""OHMYGAWDWER'REALLGONNADIE!!!!!!!!" threads" don't scare me or stop me from posting on DZ.com. The People who want to make posts like yours and just generally want to rip into people are the reason why I think twice before coming on this site.

Big Red: seriously? If you don't have thick enough skin to cope with some anonymous internet trolling, you're going to be short lived in this sport. You can be partying with your pals one instant, then ten seconds (or less) later be in total shock and disbeleif that they're gone and those times are over. That's the reality we deal with, and the longer you're around, the more dead people you know.

And there IS a difference between what I just said and posts that imply that you can't rely on your gear.

Glad some people enjoy the humor

[riggermick 6]

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Let me apologize now if this fuels the fire...

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It's panic stricken reactionary posts like yours that get people's eyes rolling back in thier heads and bring the trolls out from under the bridges.

Actually...my eyes are rolling back in my head cause of your post...not propilot's.

As a newbie I want to point out that the ""OHMYGAWDWER'REALLGONNADIE!!!!!!!!" threads" don't scare me or stop me from posting on DZ.com. The People who want to make posts like yours and just generally want to rip into people are the reason why I think twice before coming on this site.

Sad really...all this information available and all it takes is a couple of wanks to ruin it.

Dear Mr Red,

If you think that this MODERATED forum is a haven for name callers and trolls you are sadly misinformed. Have you ever visited rec.skydiving? It used to have a thousand post's a day in the 90's, now because of said name callers and trolls no one uses it anymore. It was truly the wild west out there and anyone could say anything they wanted to about anyone or any thing with out being held accountable for their actions. This forum (by virtue of NOT being on usenet) is probably one of the most civil disscussion groups on the net today. That being said, posts like the one you are refering to are meant to put issues like this in their propper perspective.


Falling out of ones harness has ALWAYS been an issue, It just doesnt happen that often with regard to the number of jumps done anually. Ths is not some new phenominon , it has been around as long as parachuting. Like every phenominon it comes in cycles, seemingly ramdom events not connected to each other do happen in clusters, look at general aviation over the last 9 decades ther are many incident clusters that meet this criteria. Because you are relativly new to this sport you will not be aware of this phenomina, but if you wait long enough you will start to see it is true.

Scarcasim and ridiclule share a thin boundry and sometimes it is hard to see that boundry and wonder which side of the fence someone is coming from, I think in this case it's scarcasim which is meant to alert you the fact that stuff does happen and it is WE the skydiving population need to always be vigilint and not freak out about it when it does happen.

Listen to the signal through the noise, you will still hear it, but it will be a little harder to understand. Look FOR the message not AT the message.


Mick

[NickDG 23]

>>If only belly bands were cool.<<

Those of us who started with gut gear found during the transition to piggback rigs that belly bands offered a certain amount of (mental) security. Then they fell from favor not so much due to fashion but because adding a pilot chute pouch to a belly band caused issues.

One benefit I see of a return to belly bands is it would restrain the 52 year old (and so far small) beer belly I'm begining to sport . . .

NickD BASE 194

[MB38 0]

Interesting. What element of having a belly band complicates the BOC pouch? Having never actually seen a rig with a belly band jumped, I'm just guessing.

My visualization is that a belly band would attach approximately where the hip rings are on a harness, sucking the laterals in tight on the body as though they were a "back band". I'm sure I'm missing something - whether it's technical or theoretical - because I can't envision how that would interfere with BOC operation.

Or am I way off base?

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[jakee 1,255]

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Or am I way off base? [Laugh]

I thnk Nick's talking about PC pouches on the belly band.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

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Or am I way off base? [Laugh]

I thnk Nick's talking about PC pouches on the belly band.

My first DZ that was the transition - ripcord to PC in the BB, then PC ROL.

not a real fan of BB PC's

BOC came later

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[KellyF 16]

Correct. Early throw out pilot chute systems had the pilot chute mounted on a belly band "where it could be seen" and easilly grabbed for deployment. However, it was quite easy to accidentally twist the belly band when donning the rig, thereby giving yourself a pilot chute in tow upon deployment.

As far as interferring with a BOC, depending on where the hardware is located, and the length of the excess strap, a loose end could find it's way near the bottom corner of your rig, making it a bit more difficult to deploy the pilot chute.

[jakee 1,255]

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Correct. Early throw out pilot chute systems had the pilot chute mounted on a belly band "where it could be seen" and easilly grabbed for deployment. However, it was quite easy to accidentally twist the belly band when donning the rig, thereby giving yourself a pilot chute in tow upon deployment.

Whenever I read the History and trivia forum I think two things;

I'm sad I'm far too young to have been around during skydiving's anything goes, bandit jump, hippy rebel phase,
But I'm very glad I wasn't around during the whole experimental, death trap gear phase

But who knows, maybe 20 years spoiled newbies will say the same stuff about my kit

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[MB38 0]

Thanks for the clarification and history lesson, guys. Good stuff to know.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[councilman24 36]

The fact that your rig is new (which you keep saying) and you can get out of it doesn't mean it's built or designed wrong. It is what it is. They stay on when used as directed. Can an unusual circumstance lead to falling out? Yep. Have manufacturer's deemed it necessary to eliminate that completely? Nope. Jan and others have proposed and implemented modifications which help. Use them if you want.

But for most of us it's not news, it's not particularly worrisome, if we want it fixed we do it and go about our business, and it certainly doesn't warrent an exclamation point, let alone three. And it doesn't warrent grounding your rig because of it. But, if it does worry you stop talking about it and get it modified.


Hmm, you caught me on a particularly grumpy day.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RogerRamjet 0]

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Correct. Early throw out pilot chute systems had the pilot chute mounted on a belly band "where it could be seen" and easilly grabbed for deployment. However, it was quite easy to accidentally twist the belly band when donning the rig, thereby giving yourself a pilot chute in tow upon deployment.

Whenever I read the History and trivia forum I think two things;

I'm sad I'm far too young to have been around during skydiving's anything goes, bandit jump, hippy rebel phase,
But I'm very glad I wasn't around during the whole experimental, death trap gear phase

But who knows, maybe 20 years spoiled newbies will say the same stuff about my kit

Since I made the first ever throw out jump, maybe I can add a comment or two.

First, we put the pouch for the PC on the belly band simply because it was an area unused for anything else and offered an easy extraction route (pull directly to the side where you would release the PC in the first place). Once on, checking the routing of the bridle was rediculously easy to do and those who twisted it simply did not do a gear check. You just ran your finger along the bridle which was velcroed to the belly band from the container to the pouch. You simply couldn't do that if the band was twisted. In my opinion, collapsable pilot chutes are more dangerous than the belly band hand deploy (as it was originally called). I certainly agree that moving it was a good idea, but jumping with a twisted belly band was about the same as leaving temporary packing pins in to me, it was easily avoided....

As for the death trap gear phase... well, all I can say is you would not have been able to eject through the hole in the original Wonderhog, it just didn't have one. Look at the guy on the right in the url below, that is a Wonderhog (mine is too in the picture). Notice the back horizontal strap as well as the belly band which goes into the backpad. Not much room for getting out once that baby is on... Current rigs have evolved to include hip rings for articulation, very small containers which are much higher on the back and no back lateral strap. Very comfortable, but seemingly heading towards "death trap" territory to me


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Personal_Galleries/RogerRamjet/Blast_from_the_Past&image=RogTraciGreg-2.jpg&img=&tt=

BTW, I wouldn't hesitate to jump my original Wonderhog today, complete with One-Shot capewells, belly band throw-out and all....

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[diablopilot 2]

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They stay on when used as directed.

Could it be that some jumpers don't consider the added risks when using gear autside it's intened design limits? *gasp* say it ain't so.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.