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[airtwardo 6]

You do not get included in the skydiving world if you just show up and jump on a dz. It is rife with politics, rampant drug use and filled with large groups of people who need to constantly "prove" themselves.

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Yeah... but there IS a negative side too!


Like any endeavor, you tend to find what you're looking for, skydiving is no different than any other sport in that respect.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[CSpenceFLY 1]

You can come hang out with me in Macon.

[slotperfect 7]

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I have been one of the biggest offenders. I can count a few hundred posts that most likely ended up in the recycle bin, either by the mods or that I deleted myself.

Your estimate is a little high, although your recycled post tally is higher than most.

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I'll resolve to post more tasteful pictures from now on, and everyone else used to the shock value are just going to have to get used to the new me.

That will be nice to see - I enjoy the funny ones that aren't completely out of hand.

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Here's to a cleaner 2008 and getting this forum back to what it was really intended for.

How's that for shock value?

I am shocked, honestly, and pleasantly surprised. Here's to that 2008 you talked about!

Arrive Safely

John

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Does this mean we are going to have to find our own porn?

[slotperfect 7]

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The constant forming of groups within the larger community, all thinking they are better, cooler and/or more bad-ass than the other groups. Many skydivers like to constantly claim they are individuals and do as they please, but then desperately try and hang on to their group.

Even here it is evident, not only in the main forums, but more specifically in the creation of a forum specially for one group.

This is a post that I stick to the top of the General Forum when I get a rash of threads I have to move because they were posted in the wrong topical forum. You may find it informative regarding your assessment of the dropzone.com community, especially this reply from Sangiro. I can tell you that this reflects real life; I have been a part of two organizations that grew very quickly over time. One of them stayed ahead of its own growth by segmenting itself internally to remain effective; the other was more reactionary after the fact. The first maintained its intimacy and relationships, the second struggles to do so.

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It is rife with politics, rampant drug use and filled with large groups of people who need to constantly "prove" themselves.

These folks are not just in skydiving . . . they are on the highways, in the workplace, etc.

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Those are the three main reasons I have stopped jumping.

That is sad to hear. Of course I respect your decision, but I think that those effects are more significant at some DZs more than others (although nowhere is completely immune) - thus is human nature.

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Those same reasons also seem to be drivers behind the "slow slide" in the non-specific forums of this website.

The overall size of the audience - I agree. Our internal segmenting to allow for the growth - I disagree.

Arrive Safely

John

[grannyinthesky 0]

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You may find it informative regarding your assessment of the dropzone.com community, especially this reply from Sangiro.

Although relatively new here and to skydiving, or maybe because of it, I appreciate having the various forums available. For example, since I am still working on just mastering basic skills and hopefully getting my A one of these day (it's got to stop snowing someday!), I don't know or need to know much about the discipline section right now. I collapsed that part for now. I am able to focus on the areas that are more basic.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[Rainbo 0]

Maybe some of you have noticed that I have not been posting a lot lately. It's not that I'm living in a cave butr more to what HH said in the beginning of this post. While I would never be catagorized as a wallflower it has gotten to be to much to rifle through all the junk to find something that I was interested in knowing about my friends and aquaintances. If there is a skydiving specific issue I want to talk abouit I know which forum to go to. If I want to spend time with my friends that a far away while in the comfort of my home I go to Bonfire. While I do enjoy a little good porn now and again I also know where to go and it is not in Bonfire.
Nuff from me, oh yeah, and my big 50 is just around the corner if anyone is interested.

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[airtwardo 6]

...and my big 50 is just around the corner if anyone is interested.

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'Bout time!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Rainbo 0]

I'm only making to there to piss off all the people that said I wouold never make it

Hope to see ya this summer, gotta get my schedule figured out.

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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The constant forming of groups within the larger community, all thinking they are better, cooler and/or more bad-ass than the other groups. Many skydivers like to constantly claim they are individuals and do as they please, but then desperately try and hang on to their group.

Even here it is evident, not only in the main forums, but more specifically in the creation of a forum specially for one group.

This is a post that I stick to the top of the General Forum when I get a rash of threads I have to move because they were posted in the wrong topical forum. You may find it informative regarding your assessment of the dropzone.com community, especially this reply from Sangiro. I can tell you that this reflects real life; I have been a part of two organizations that grew very quickly over time. One of them stayed ahead of its own growth by segmenting itself internally to remain effective; the other was more reactionary after the fact. The first maintained its intimacy and relationships, the second struggles to do so.

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It is rife with politics, rampant drug use and filled with large groups of people who need to constantly "prove" themselves.

These folks are not just in skydiving . . . they are on the highways, in the workplace, etc.

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Those are the three main reasons I have stopped jumping.

That is sad to hear. Of course I respect your decision, but I think that those effects are more significant at some DZs more than others (although nowhere is completely immune) - thus is human nature.

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Those same reasons also seem to be drivers behind the "slow slide" in the non-specific forums of this website.

The overall size of the audience - I agree. Our internal segmenting to allow for the growth - I disagree.

I wasn't talking about the discipline specific, or skydiving related forums. I think those seperated forums are a great idea and a great way of channeling the conversations.

[madhatter 0]

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There was a thread on this several years ago. HH expressed an opinion then on who he thought should be allowed to post. I haven’t seen anything that would indicate his opinion has changed.

Those that say you cannot belong to the "Clique" because you don’t jump enough are entitled to their opinions but maybe some Cliques are not worth being part of. I once had one of these people tell me I could no longer be their friend because I didn’t jump enough. You know.. I am OK with that.

As for visiting a DZ when you are in town with no intention of jumping while there.. I bet the DZO, Property owner and people that actually Jump there would LOVE to see you. If in doubt, Call em up and ask if they mind if you drop by. Most DZ`s, Like this site, are pretty open and welcoming.

My sentiments exactly!

I took a break 2001-2004, did a bunch of 'dives in 2 months & didn't jump again 'til November 2007. My dz buddies still remain part of my extended family. They may have spread around a bit, but that means I feel som much more welcome at several dz'sin my province and also in at least 4 other countries!

Jumping or not jumping is not always in our control, but that doesn't mean our passion diminishes.

Cést la...

A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!
D.S # 125

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

You're a man with class, HH, and I respect that. Thanks for all that you've done with your site.

[mouth 0]

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Like Lisa, I sort-of miss the "good old days" sometimes (where most of us had met, wanted to meet, etc.), but I've definitely still found some new "friends" I've enjoyed here and would likely even "be there for" should circumstance call for it.

It was that old community that motivated me to drive to Eloy for the first Dz.com gathering at that DZ at the Memorial Day boogie in 2002. This was after the first US DZ.com gathering in the fall of 2001 at Spaceland. There was only about a dozen DZ.commers in Eloy for that boogie and only a handful more at the first DZ.com gathering at the Holiday Boogie in Eloy that Christmas. Even though the numbers were low, it was like meeting old friends whom I had known for a while. Well, I had known them for two years online.

The site has grown exponentially, with many growing pains inside and outside of the online community. Too bad it will never be like it was even just 5 years ago.

OK, so now I'm sad. That year was the best. I remember hanging with WENDYW, (you know i LOVE YOU GIRL),Deuce, Cornieman, FF Hol, JT, Big Ben, Sunny, SM!, Katie, Lou, Bets, Lew, CanuckUSA, and so I'm leaving tons of people out but you get the point. Even HH showed up...(Sorry for chasing you down to hug you HH, but admit it, you like monkey hugs
The purpose of lots of our mindless chatter was to develop those friendships and encourage meetings at skydiving venues...it was not to see who we could offend the most.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[wmw999 2,122]

Harumph. And who was it who got you to come to Skyfest?????


Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mouth 0]

I'm sorry honey...you know I love you and miss you. I forgot Wingie, too.

Yes, we had an amazing time.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[stitch 0]

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it was not to see who we could offend the most

When you made me remove my britches at Dublin a few years ago, I'd say you offended pretty much everyone.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Keith 0]

Amen brother! I've been busy lately and don't come around as much as I'd like, but when I do there's so much crap I don't stay long or think twice before logging on.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Liemberg 0]

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As for visiting a DZ when you are in town with no intention of jumping while there.. I bet the DZO, Property owner and people that actually Jump there would LOVE to see you

That quote somehow got me thinking about a period @ my old club where things like that seemed to play a role.
As all of you probably know, you need to be a bit relaxed about this whole 'jumping out of airplanes' stuff and some of the required relaxation comes from routine. When you are a young jumper who has first discovered the rewards of skydiving, people who are on the staff doing back-to-back as camerapersons, instructors etcetera sometimes seem like the coolest people on the planet.
I mean landing, dumping your gear in the hangar, grabbing another rig and off to the plane again - who wouldn't want to spend his weekend like that?

Meanwhile - at any place where people jump out of airplanes, be it a club or a business, there's also a lot of less glamerous work to be done and in case of a club they are always on the lookout for someone willing to do that work for free. (Well, in fact the DZO is too - hush, hush about that please )

Beggars can't be choosers, so if someone is willing to hang around at the DZ, serve coffee and soft drinks, jump in a car to go look for cutaway canopies and people that landed out and a dozen of other things that need to be done - he or she doesn't have to be a hard core skydiver.

In fact, hard core skydivers tend to be not verry good at these 'less glamerous jobs' - the boys and girls that are either on the creepers with their coach, packing their canopies or in the air hardly ever serve coffee or a softdrink.

People want to be recognized for what they contribute to a community - any community.
so invariably there is a potential for tension between these two groups at the DZ.

The 250 jumps a year folks tend to 'tolerate' the 'I'm not actually jumping myself at the moment' persons since they serve coffee and softdrinks and keep track of cutaway canopies - in fact with some thorough training they can become dedicated tandemcatchers who will wait faithfully for the tandempair even on no wind days ...

However - they should NEVER actually RUN the DZ.

People telling other people that they cannot be their friends because they don't jump enough is about the silliest thing I have heard in a long time (and trust me, I have heard a lot of silly stuff... )

The Bonfire and its tendency to spin out of control like the rest of the internet where one can type anonimously is hardly visited by me. Don't hold me to it but this may be my third post here - I'm pretty sure it is less than 10. And I'm not shy about "speaking in public"
For me, there is a life outside the DZ. I strongly suggest others that may not have that commodity to get one...

The more technical sides of the forums are of course what keeps things alive and vibrant and real - the fact that one can p.m. Bill Booth or Brian Germain or Pat Works or [insert dozen other "NAMES"] and if one does use that privilige toughtfull and with care they actually give you an answer. Also, many of them are willing to discuss parachutes and skydiving with any one of us. And allthough there is a morbid side to this also, I'm much better educated about what could kill my customers (and therefore is not so good for my business, let alone my peace of mind) than I was in the pre-internet days.

IMO that is Willem's "core business". The "incident" and "safety & training" forums actually SAVE LIVES.
(You can't beat that, IMO)

At my place I also would not tolerate people that are taking a crap in the lobby or at the front porch but unfortunatly virtual places where one can speak anonimously tend to show parts of "the human experience" we, well - find less tastefull?

I am not having a hard time ignoring it - but I'm glad I'm not moderating there because my tolerance for mindless drivel is limited - and when you are moderating YOU HAVE TO READ IT.

* bows for the great red one and the modest and dedicated green ones in his following and leaves the scene...*

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[d_squared431 0]

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There was a thread on this several years ago. HH expressed an opinion then on who he thought should be allowed to post. I haven’t seen anything that would indicate his opinion has changed.

Those that say you cannot belong to the "Clique" because you don’t jump enough are entitled to their opinions but maybe some Cliques are not worth being part of. I once had one of these people tell me I could no longer be their friend because I didn’t jump enough. You know.. I am OK with that.

As for visiting a DZ when you are in town with no intention of jumping while there.. I bet the DZO, Property owner and people that actually Jump there would LOVE to see you. If in doubt, Call em up and ask if they mind if you drop by. Most DZ`s, Like this site, are pretty open and welcoming.

I am glad you posted this reply because I felt like I wasn't going to post on here anymore because I am not currently jumping or actively involved in the sport as others pointed out in their posts. I had to stop skydiving because of taking in and then adopting my brother. I also had my knee fixed and now have to have it fixed again. It was looking like I would be able to start again this summer but not sure with my knee. I enjoy this site and am glad to have met the few people I have.

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[Baksteen 84]

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I hope the "loud obnoxious" users have enough of a clue to understand that you are referring to them.

I have a feeling there are a lot of people trying on the proverbial shoe right now to see if it fits.

I'm no forum moderator, but I have similar experiences in my previous job, when I was among other things responsible for making sure that people followed the safety protocols and cleanedup their mess.
Unfortunately, my experience is that the people at whom such things truly are targeted never care or realise it's them who are the target audience.

However, for borderline offenders this could be just what was needed - some of us don't know any better or the Bonfire is the place where tasteless things are tolerated and even appreciated.

This thread made me reflect on whatever stuff I have posted in whatever forum and I think some of it was on the verge of being over the line. Sorry if I offended anyone.

That being said, it would be nice to be able to open any bonfire thread attachment at work without fear of what you'll be seeing...

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[futuredivot 0]

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am glad to have met the few people I have.

And we (at least me) enjoyed meeting you right back
Since I rarely jump I use dizzy more as a social network-hey, I'm here, where's a good place to grab dinner, does anyone want to go. That and an oulet for smart alek comments that will get me fired at work

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[chaoskitty 0]

DeeDee.. I'm not picking on you here, but I am responding to you and to others who share your opinion to help me understand... if you have never jumped, don't jump anymore, don't participate in the community outside of this website... why do you want to be here? Theres so much noise on these forums, its driving away people who DO skydive and DO participate and look to expand their skydiving community, which is what this site was designed for.

I've never ever said "I'm better than you and you should leave". All I've done is question why people who dont skydive, post on skydiving forums. But I guess the truth of that answer hits a little too close for comfort for some.
I dont feel a need to elaborate on that.

Anyway.. my opinions.. your opinions.. we're all entitled. If you like it here, stay here. Just be aware, as Sangiro said, of how much noise you're making.. skydiver or not.

[PLFXpert 0]

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if you have never jumped, don't jump anymore, don't participate in the community outside of this website... why do you want to be here?

I can't speak for D, but it might have something to do with the "house Sangiro built". It's a neat house. I can understand why people from other neighborhoods might want to peak in and hang out.



I haven't jumped in two years, but my pedestal is still here and I'll thank you for not sitting on it.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[gjhdiver 0]

If there's one fault of dropzone.com, (and there's many), it's taking itself way too seriously. This is one more instance of it.

[Ripple 0]

I joined because I did a tandem for charity, got hooked and wanted to learn to jump. I didn't learn, I don't trust myself to be good enough to not become a complete SCI rather than incomplete. Life is difficult enough.

I stopped coming here when I made the decision to not pursue it, it wasn't relevant, as you say Kitty. But I'd occasionally look in to read the posts of the people I had grown to really like and admire. I'd exchange a few PMs then go again for a few months/a year. Then one day I came back after many, many months and saw a thread entitled "GFD memorial jump". I haven't gone away again because, and I know this is utterly stupid, I don't want to miss one post, one opportunity to PM with someone I like and admire as much as I did Shannon. I'm so glad I have stayed, because the day before he died, Eric saw me here and PMed me.

So, I'm sorry that I'm so much spare baggage, I have nothing really to contribute and I know many don't like me here, but I do like many of you and I promise to keep a low profile.

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