Tunnel vs Sky and Spinning

[SkyPixie 0]

I failed level 4 (release dive) the first time because of a slow rotation that I could not stop. Diagnosis: asymmetrical legs.
After going to the tunnel every week and a total of 40 minutes of flight time for practice, I learned to keep a steady heading and even do 180s, 360s, full stops and ups & downs. Arching was never a problem for me. I actually had to learn how to de-arch to get myself off the floor in the tunnel.

When I went to my dz for my 2nd attempt at level 4, I was confident that I could do the level 5 (180s) too. I was wrong. I started spinning as soon as I was released by the instructor. I could not stop the spinning. I breathed & tried to relax, arched, felt my legs and did my arm/shoulder movements to counter the turn but nothing worked. My instructor did a catch & release at least 3 times and I spun each time. I pulled while spinning and got a foot long of line twists. I fixed that problem quickly the way I was taught how. When I asked my instructor what my problem was, he said that I tensed up.

After my de-briefing, I went to the office and asked to be put on the next plane for my 3rd attempt at level 4. This time, I was able to maintain about 5-7 seconds of stable heading between two sets of spins. My instructor showed me the video and pointed at my legs. My old problem came back, obviously. We went to the training room and did some exercises to get me to "feel" of how my arch & legs should be.

As soon as I left the training room, I marched back to the office and asked to be put on the next plane for my 4th attempt. They asked if I wanted a different instructor. I said no and told them that the problem wasn't the instructor and that it was me. Everybody at the DZ and I knew that my instructor was one of the best. Upon release, I started a slow turn that quickly progressed to yet another spin. When I couldn't stop it, my instructor offered his hand, which I grabbed, with the intention of re-starting. In the process, I almost did an impromptu barrel roll which I was able to stop. When I let go of his hand, I maintained my heading for more than 15 seconds before I pulled. I barely passed. It wasn't pretty and perfect, but I passed.

It puzzles me that I can do steady heading, 180s, 360s & full stops at the tunnel so easily but I couldn't stop a spin when I'm in the sky. When I'm in the tunnel, I "feel" my arch and I don't have to make a conscious effort to do it. This allows me to focus on my legs & arms, keeping them symmetrical. When I'm in the sky, I don't feel that I'm arching enough, so I'm putting an effort to it. Is this what's causing me to tense up? My instructor told me that my arch was good the whole time. It's just me tensing up and my legs going asymmetrical when that happens. Why don't I "feel" my arch when I'm up there?

I'm 5'1", 120 lbs. Does the weight of the rig change my ability to arch as much as I was able to at the tunnel? Was it just a mistaken feeling (that I was not arching enough) or was I actually arching less?

I'm hesitant to go back to the tunnel to practice because I do so well when I'm in there. I'm starting to think that the only way to practice now is to just keep jumping (and paying!)

Despite all my non-passes (I refuse to call them failures because I'm still alive), in a single day, I felt good because I learned that line twists aren't that difficult to fix, I stopped a barrel roll which I wasn't ready for, I landed on my feet for the first time and continued to do so, AND I avoided a dust devil.
Now, if I can just figure out how to stop acting like a frisbee up there....

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[tetra316 0]

If you have no problem doing it in the tunnel perhaps the difference comes from the stress of actually skydiving. In the tunnel you do not have to worry about anything else, ie. exit, deployment, canopy, landing etc. In the air you do. Perhaps some sensory overload that distracts your attention from your body position. Not uncommon and will subside as you get more jumps under your belt.

[faulknerwn 36]

I always tell my students to smile. Even if you have to force it. You can't be too tense if you're smiling :-) It does sound like stress/tension to me..

I once had a student (who has 200 skydives now) who had a similar spinning problem. I gave him the same advice and on the next jump he started to spin. He forced a smile and it stopped. He was afraid to stop smiling. He did and he started spinning and he forced another smile on his face. He stopped spinning completely and then pulled..

It was hilarious to watch. I swear you just can't be too tense if you're smiling - even if you have to force it...

[Bertt 0]

Have your instructors said anything about toe taps?

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[soulbabel 0]

I had a similiar experience while going through AFF. My suggestion is if you find yourself unintentially starting to turn, counter the turn to stop it, then relax and try to find your neutral posture.

Another thing you might want to look at, is whether the student rig is adjusted correctly. A poorly adjusted rig can end up shifting on your back and can possibly start flying you. That issue should go away when you get your own gear, but as my AFF instructor told me, "student rigs are made to fit eveyone, but they aren't made to fit everyone well."

[ILikePizza 0]

I'm going to offer up the student rig idea too.

Now I'm 6' 8" and 230 lbs, so I'm not comprable on size, but it took me a few jumps to realize that I was strapped up so damn tight I couldn't arch/de-arch as well as I should have been. The rental rig I'm using now allows for a lot more comfort and fits much better, and it shows!

That said, I've been with a group of students and we have one guy that really tenses up on the plane ride up. He's dealing with the same struggles in terms of passing levels (even after 19 jumps).

I would suggest talking with your instructor about how you can work on relaxing on the ride, and getting a smooth exit set up.

Keep jumping!! Enjoy it!!

...And I'm not gonna not get Randy Jackson's autograph...
Did we just become best friends?

D.S. #1000000

[wmw999 2,123]

Quote

relax and try to find your neutral posture

That's an important point -- nearly everyone's neutral posture is slightly different, and you won't find it until you relax. You have to be able to feel the air, and it's hard to do that while you're tense.

Of course, as a student, tense is what happens
You've proven you can actively control yourself; next time you feel yourself starting to turn, do something else (yeah, smile, or a really thorough COA) -- anything that takes your mind off the "oh shit I'm starting to spin" thought pattern. Just as a student who focuses on the tree they're trying to avoid is more likely to hit it, focusing on the spin you're trying to avoid makes you repeat what happened.

Focus on what you want to do, not on what you don't want to do.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyPixie 0]

Thank you all! I did look at all my de-briefing videos and none of them showed me smiling.

I scheduled two sessions with my AFF instructor this weekend and I'll make sure that I'll practice that smile and put some muscle memory on my face

I wonder if I should borrow a rig and use it in the tunnel. I've never seen anybody do that.

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[kmills0705 0]

Quote

Thank you all! I did look at all my de-briefing videos and none of them showed me smiling.

I scheduled two sessions with my AFF instructor this weekend and I'll make sure that I'll practice that smile and put some muscle memory on my face

I wonder if I should borrow a rig and use it in the tunnel. I've never seen anybody do that.

Think about main or reserve accidental deployment in the tunnel.

I don't know if it is "allowed" or not, but I certainly wouldn't want a rig on it the tunnel.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[beowulf 1]

They won't let you use an actual skydiving rig in the tunnel. The tunnel might have a dummy rig available.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

They won't let you use an actual skydiving rig in the tunnel. The tunnel might have a dummy rig available.

some teams use covers over their rigs - specially made item

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[beowulf 1]

yeah, I forgot about that. Not sure how often they use that. I asked about those at SVCO and they werent really enthusiastic about using them.

[buff 0]

+1 on the tension.

One thing I do and tell students to relax is use visualization about 2 min out from the door. Relax and picture every movement from your seat to the door to exit thru the whole dive plan. This helps you to picture and focus on the "what to do" and not the problem.

At exit, big exhale going out will remove upper body tension. I'm still in the long process of learning FF and that works for me when I'm trying to go HD from a sit and I still have alot of tension in my torso. And I smile and laugh and stick my tounge out at my partner. All of it causes relaxation.

It will come sooner or later and become automatic until you begin to take it to the next level. By then, you will know when you are tense and how to relax.

So go forth and give that AFFI a smile with a little tounge

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[popsjumper 2]

I'll not offer advice. That's your instructor's job.

But, I will offer a true story...

We do AFF here and Level 1 Dive flow is Exit, COA, PRCP, COA, Short Cirles, W/O & Pull.

We discussed hand signals and I showed the signal for the tasks. When we got to the signal for short circles she said she needed something different to more easily distinguish short circles.

I asked her what would make sense to her and she took the COA signal and shrunk it down until the circle was very small. She said, "It's small circle. It looks like an asshole."

So, in flight, she was very tense and bug-eyed and bouncing all over the place and stiff as a board but she was doing her tasks after being prompted. We were working hard to keep her stable.

When I threw out the "asshole" signal, she cracked up, started laughing and smoothed out solid as a rock. She was still laughing on landing.

Every jump I threw out the "asshole" signal right up top and she blew through her AFF levels like a pro all with that big, big smile on her face.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Hey! What's wrong with spinning???

You get to see everything around you not just one stupid tree or cloud or instructor.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[StoryAtThree 0]

I'm currently having this same problem , and it's caused me to repeat category C more times than I care to mention. Putting on a huge smile during the jump is a good idea! And I like the idea of sticking my tongue out at my instructors...that would certainly make me laugh, because I know I would get a strange reaction from them.

I think a lot of it comes down to self-confidence. You know the dive flow, you know what you have to do, so don't worry about it...your muscle memory will kick in when it needs to. When I got on the ground after my final jump last weekend, my instructor told me "You know you can exit the plane, you can pull at the right altitude, and you can navigate your canopy safely...so what are you so tense about?" So it makes a lot of sense...go in with the knowledge that you know what you have to do, and have fun with it!

[dreaming13000 1]

jumping out of an airplane has way more "tension" to it then simply flying around the tunnel, I agree with others, it is most likely your tension /anxiety about the jump and passing/failing each level. Smiling is a good way to relax during freefall, plus this is fun ya know. I also found that around 9k (jump run at 13k) practicing deep breathing, just to control the nerves a little helped me throughout my student status (and even now!) Long deep breaths, in through the nose and out through the mouth, i have learned that deep breathing will help one run 10 miles, give birth to children and skydive

good luck to you! smile and have fun!

"A man only gets in life what he is believing for, nothing more and nothing less" Kenneth Hagen

[bluetwo 0]

So basically there's all kinds of silly stuff a student can do and instead of trying to weed out all the little things it's more important to just enjoy the experience?

Or is this the part where somebody goes the opposite way of most of the other posts?

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