One-Handed cutaways on spinners

[napalmboy 0]

Over in this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3893058;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;, Brian Germain said:

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3) Cutting away from a spinner without your reserve ripcord in your hand can be dangerous. Despite USPA's recommendations for Students, experienced skydivers should seriously consider changing mehods.

I found this to be interesting, because I was taught as a student to use one-hand-per-handle EPs, and somewhere around 50 jumps retrained myself to use a two-hand-per-handle EP. The reason I retrained was that an instructor cautioned me that one day I'd be spinning under a very small parachute at very high wingloading and I might need two hands on my cutaway handle. (For the record, he said I should use whichever method I was comfortable with, and I decided to retrain myself.)

Without debating 1 vs. 2 handed EP's, I'd like to hear from skydivers who've have spinners under highly loaded canopies, whether they used 1 or 2 hands to cutaway, and if they had trouble doing so.

To answer my own question, I've not yet had a spinning malfunction that didn't quickly fix itself, and I'm happy jumping something semi-elliptical at 1.45:1 for some time yet, so hopefully it'll stay that way.

Well, the door was open...

[wmw999 2,146]

I've had 2 spinning Diablos, I used both hands, and I had no problems. I do use an RSL, and in both cases I ended up under a straight-flying reserve.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[menopause 0]

People who are going to post in this thread will say these things:

1-handed EPs are better because you don't have to waste time finding the other handle and the response will be quicker.

2-handed EPs are better because you might have a hard time pulling the velcro with 1 hand and it forces you to do them one at a time so that you do not have an incomplete cutaway resulting in a main reserve entanglement.

[napalmboy 0]

Right, which is why in my original post I asked people to avoid the "which one is better" argument. I'm looking for actual stories of "I used one hand and it was fine/impossible" or similar. Experienced jumpers, being experienced and grownups, can judge for themselves, but I'm trying to evaluate the statement made by an instructor I knew years ago telling me that highly-loaded spinners required two hands to cutaway from.

Well, the door was open...

[sundevil777 94]

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Without debating 1 vs. 2 handed EP's,

I think it is important to realize why it may take a lot of force to cutaway, which may be much of the reason for some to recommend two hands per handle.

Mini 3-rings have higher cutaway forces than the std large rings. The difference is significant, and even the Aerodyne miniforce system doesn't match the low cutaway force (see attachment, I think it came from a post of Bill Booth many years ago).

For the sake of a little less drag and weight, it takes a lot more to cutaway. Add in the very real possibility that your risers may not be made quite to the standard, and this can also increase the required force. So, I think it is important to talk about the root cause of why it may be hard to cutaway.

My 2 cutaways with std/large 3 rings have been really easy with one hand, and can't understand how so few (even larger guys) choose the larger rings.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[menopause 0]

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Right, which is why in my original post I asked people to avoid the "which one is better" argument. I'm looking for actual stories of "I used one hand and it was fine/impossible" or similar. Experienced jumpers, being experienced and grownups, can judge for themselves, but I'm trying to evaluate the statement made by an instructor I knew years ago telling me that highly-loaded spinners required two hands to cutaway from.

What I am saying is you are going to get a bunch of anecdotal evidence on both sides arguing over the efficacy of a particular method. Just because someone says they did it a particular way and it worked does not mean it is the right way for you in that moment or even in general. The reality is that every situation has too many variables and happens too fast to make a decision about 1 vs 2 handed EPs, so pull the handles in whatever way you were taught or feel comfortable with.

[napalmboy 0]

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Just because someone says they did it a particular way and it worked does not mean it is the right way for you in that moment or even in general.

This is precisely why I want to know what many people have done in many situations, rather than just taking the advice of one person, particularly in reaction to a specific incident.

Well, the door was open...

[Amazon 7]

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Over in this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3893058;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;, Brian Germain said:

Quote

3) Cutting away from a spinner without your reserve ripcord in your hand can be dangerous. Despite USPA's recommendations for Students, experienced skydivers should seriously consider changing mehods.

I found this to be interesting, because I was taught as a student to use one-hand-per-handle EPs, and somewhere around 50 jumps retrained myself to use a two-hand-per-handle EP. The reason I retrained was that an instructor cautioned me that one day I'd be spinning under a very small parachute at very high wingloading and I might need two hands on my cutaway handle. (For the record, he said I should use whichever method I was comfortable with, and I decided to retrain myself.)

Without debating 1 vs. 2 handed EP's, I'd like to hear from skydivers who've have spinners under highly loaded canopies, whether they used 1 or 2 hands to cutaway, and if they had trouble doing so.

To answer my own question, I've not yet had a spinning malfunction that didn't quickly fix itself, and I'm happy jumping something semi-elliptical at 1.45:1 for some time yet, so hopefully it'll stay that way.

I have 2 chops from an eliptical that spun up on deployment, one with really bad line twists and the other with the slider hung up on the steering lines on one side. I attribute both to packing excellence, hell I even KNEW the one that line twisted was going to do it...it just felt reallly wrong coming off my back where it kind of rocked me side to side a bit as it launched. I had some pretty good G's going in both instances and I used one hand per handle with zero problem pulling the cutaway or reserve handles. On one cutaway I beat my RSL and the other the RSL beat me. I had plenty of adrenaline assist in both cases and the cables came away with ease

[indyz 1]

I was trained to use two-hands-per-handle. I switched to one-hand-per-handle before my first cutaway, although in the back of my mind I wasn't completely sure it was the best choice. I committed to one-hand-per-handle when I got my tandem rating because tandem rigs require it and I wanted to be as consistent as possible.

I've had five reserve rides, all one-hand-per handle: three spinners, one tandem tension knot, and one CRW entanglement. On four of those I had no trouble at all. One of the spinners, though, was a little scary. It was a basic 2-way RW drill jump with an extremely experienced jumper. We ended up breaking off late, which led to me pulling a little lower than I normally would. I threw out and my Velocity 111 opened hard and with multiple line twists. I was immediately on my back and spinning. Based on my altitude, the severity of the line twists, and the violence of the spin, I made no attempt to kick out and immediately decided to cut away. I found the cutaway handle easily but had difficulty with the reserve handle. I was wearing a full-face helmet and my risers were crossed in front of my face, so locating it visually was impossible. I found the harness webbing and followed it up and down without luck.

At this point I decided I was too low to keep screwing around and had to take action. I was going to cut away and hope that eliminating the crossed risers and g-forces from the spin would enable me to find the handle. If not, well, the Cypres would probably fire. Somehow at the same time I found the reserve handle with my left hand. I cut away and dumped the reserve. I never looked at my altimeter before I landed, so I can only guess, but I was probably under my reserve below 1000 feet (but not low enough to fire the Cypres).

A two-hand-per-handle'r probably would have located the cutaway handle, attempted to visually locate the reserve handle and realized it was impossible, cutaway, found the reserve handle, and been under the reserve a lot higher than I was. In retrospect, I spent far too long attempting to locate the reserve handle. I should have given it one or two tries, then chopped.

[diablopilot 2]

Either method is acceptable, provided it is trained and used correctly.

I have used the one hand per handle method on 25 of my breakaways (3 of which have been spinning mals), and 2 hands to break away from a spinning mal on a tandem because it was needed.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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On one cutaway I beat my RSL and the other the RSL beat me

As an aside, I cringe when I hear people talk about beating RSL's. Most of the time when people say they have beaten the RSL, they have in fact come very very close to an out of sequence, perhaps even having one. On most rigs the window to be the RSL the time it takes to fall 8 to 14 inches from your main riser(s). If you have ANY sort of hang up in the breakaway process you will now be out of sequence, and the resulting problems could prove fatal.

The single hand per handle method requires a pause in between breakaway and the reserve handle pull that must be drilled into the jumper's procedures. It doesn't need to be a long pause, but I'd suggest that it needs to be slightly longer than the RSL needs to activate.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[menopause 0]

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Just because someone says they did it a particular way and it worked does not mean it is the right way for you in that moment or even in general.

This is precisely why I want to know what many people have done in many situations, rather than just taking the advice of one person, particularly in reaction to a specific incident.

So you're saying you want anecdotal evidence instead of objective truth. Okay.

[AggieDave 6]

My exit weight is fairly high. The two sport chops I've had were both spinning on my back on highly loaded canopies. One was a XF2 loaded at 1.9, the other was a Velo loaded at 2.7. Both were chopped with one hand. Both were with mini-rings.

Looked up and with "damn, there goes my day" and reached both hands to the handles. BAM BAM with each hand and under a very nice PDr.

Although it worked for me, it may not work for you.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[chuckakers 370]

I've had 7 cutaways, 4 under highly loaded spinning mals. All but one I pulled with one hand on each handle. On the most recent, my hand slipped from the cutaway handle on the first try, so I used two hands on the second try. As expected, the cutaway was easy with two hands (my hand may have just slipped on the first effort), and a barrel roll and single-handed reserve pull later I was under my reserve.

I don't think it's all that important which technique is used, rather it's important to have a plan and train accordingly. As a point of reference, I was taught and spent many years teaching one hand on each handle, with a plan "B" of using both hands if the handle can not be extracted. Oddly enough, that's exactly what I did.

Plan, train, and execute when needed.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[azureriders 0]

6 cut aways, 4 of those spining in some fasion or another, 2 of those on semi eliptical loaded close to 1.6 : 1, with mini rings and one hand on each handle. I have never had any trouble pulling a handle.

[ridestrong 1]

I've had one cutaway, not heavily loaded but over 1:1 and it was a hard spinning mal.

I used two hands and had an easy pull of the cutaway handle. I didn't pull my reserve handle.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[headoverheels 291]

I've mostly used one hand per capewell, followed by a one handed reserve pull. Only had one breakaway non-capewell, and that was right hand,right hand.

[Amazon 7]

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On one cutaway I beat my RSL and the other the RSL beat me

As an aside, I cringe when I hear people talk about beating RSL's. Most of the time when people say they have beaten the RSL, they have in fact come very very close to an out of sequence, perhaps even having one. On most rigs the window to be the RSL the time it takes to fall 8 to 14 inches from your main riser(s). If you have ANY sort of hang up in the breakaway process you will now be out of sequence, and the resulting problems could prove fatal.

The single hand per handle method requires a pause in between breakaway and the reserve handle pull that must be drilled into the jumper's procedures. It doesn't need to be a long pause, but I'd suggest that it needs to be slightly longer than the RSL needs to activate.

Hey that shit was pinning my head down into my chest and the building G's on the legstraps were REALLLLY starting to hurt I was in a hurry

[linestretch 0]

I've always done the one hand on each handle routine...until last saturday. I had a violent spinner and the natural movement was the same (my 10th reserve ride by the way). That was until I couldn't cutaway using one hand. My left instinctively reached over & helped out. Once clear from the main, my left hand went right back to the reserve handle & that was that. I had always thought 'what would happen in that case' and now I know. I would say the best option is be prepared for just about anything. It's really what works best for you.

my pics & stuff!

[erdnarob 1]

If it's not done already, make sure to have anti twist tubing installed in your cut away yellow cable channels. That will guarantee you an easier pull in case of a spin generated lines twists. Better yet, if you have a Skyhook equipped rig, a single action will be sufficient since the Skyhook pulls the the reserve pin and the bridle and give you a fast opening with your risers staying even or parallel. A reserve opening using the pilot chute does not guarantee that the risers will be even in the case for instance that your body is sideway (very likely to happen if spinning). The pilot chute goes vertically but being sideway will make the reserve risers not even which can cause reserve opening problem.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[riggerpaul 1]

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If it's not done already, make sure to have anti twist tubing installed in your cut away yellow cable channels. That will guarantee you an easier pull in case of a spin generated lines twists. Better yet, if you have a Skyhook equipped rig, a single action will be sufficient since the Skyhook pulls the the reserve pin and the bridle and give you a fast opening with your risers staying even or parallel. A reserve opening using the pilot chute does not guarantee that the risers will be even in the case for instance that your body is sideway (very likely to happen if spinning). The pilot chute goes vertically but being sideway will make the reserve risers not even which can cause reserve opening problem.

Both the reserve pilot chute and the Skyhook pull on the reserve bridle.

How does the Skyhook ensure that the risers are even and parallel when the reserve pilot chute does not?

[diablopilot 2]

It doesn't, but you may have a hard time convincing the kool-aid drinkers of that.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Para5-0 0]

+1

I have been using the one handed method as well, and only once had to assist on a hard cutaway due to ciolent spin. In fact one on Sunday, brake fire into a helicopter main, one hand release it fairly easy. Tandem procedures are in sinc with the one handed as well.
To each their own. I see pros and cons for each method.

[DeNReN 0]

Had my 1st cut away the other week...spinning on a new to me Jedei 136 loaded at 1.5:1 , one hand on each and no problems at all.

05 Wings, type 17 risers with inserts

[brettski74 0]

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Both the reserve pilot chute and the Skyhook pull on the reserve bridle.

Yes, but from which direction?

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How does the Skyhook ensure that the risers are even and parallel when the reserve pilot chute does not?

I'd explain it, but Bill Booth does a much better job. In particular, read the second paragraph of his post. Sure he has a vested interest in the skyhook, but the physics as described do make some sense.