How to jump a round?

[rasmack 0]

I seem to have gotten it into my head that I need to try and jump a round parachute at some time. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should go about this?

I am hesitant about borrowing the old T10 from my local DZ. I would much rather if I could get my hands on a parachute that could be attached to a set of modern risers and put in a regular rig, but I am sure this raises issues of packing volume (and packing in general
Do jumpable round parachutes appear on ebay? I didn't get much out of checking the classifieds here at dz.com. What would the price be?

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[larsrulz 0]

I jumped a round at the end of last summer and it fit into my rig just fine. The rig was about ideal for my Sabre 190, and the round fit just fine (it was a medium to large sized round, as I wasn't going to jump the smaller one they had). Used an extra set of risers, no D-bag, and a diaper and mostly just watched my rigger/S&TA pack it, but you might be suprised how small it packs up. Talk to an older rigger who is used to packing up round reserves, they might have some good advise.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

I seem to have gotten it into my head that I need to try and jump a round parachute at some time.

Well get out, before you do something silly.



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should go about this?

Make it an intentional water jump, at least you won't break something while landing. Even if you're fairly light, rounds can bite you. You can likely find someone that has a closet/basement full of old stuff that would be amused to see jumped again, and not care if it gets wet.


Or, make it an intentional cutaway jump. You can open real high and get a lot of quiet time under a round before chopping.

Or, talk up the idea so much that someone else does it, and enjoy the experience vicariously. Sometimes it is not so wise to want to recreate the past.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Plummet 0]

I jumped a round a few years ago. I had obtained an old student canopy and harness. I wore the round harness underneath my regular harness. I did not intend to land it. There is much to be said for an intentional cutaway !

The whole story can be read at:

http://home.wi.rr.com/plummet/round.html

---

-Jeff.
http://www.iplummet.com

Common sense and common courtesy are NOT common.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Get some good instruction. Learn and practice your PLF's. Jump over a big field with someone who really knows how to spot. Do a good PLF when you land.

[councilman24 36]

Search my posts. I learned on rags (T-10's), my first canopy was a Paracommander, and I've got about 300 round jumps.

I'm also a rigger and routinely rig round pilot rigs. So I am very familiar with round canopies.

Any relatively modern round reserve, made out of F-111 type fabric will fit in medium size modern rigs. I bought a Phantom 28' off ebay for $60. I inspected it, put it on three ring risers, added a d-bag, and a throw out PC. It went in my rig for a Triathlon 190. While I pack rounds with diapers all the time and this one has one, it's really better to put it in a bag rather than mess around freepacking it into the rig.

Now, I jumped this Phantom 28 weighing about 215 lbs PLUS gear. I'm pretty good at PLFs so I figured I could land it with out getting hurt. But I've got an ankle with a lot of metal so I wore high boots. But I put it in the pea gravel pit from a half mile out. So I did a PLF but not my best. For someone who's never jumped a round I'd limit this to about 190lbs WITH gear. I have a 26' lopo that I used for an intentional cutaway canopy that I've let a couple of people jump in there own rig and land. This I limit to about 160lbs.

A lot of people have Paracommander rigs still in their closet. If it's airworthy go for it.

Practice PLF's a lot. End up doing them backwards off something about 5' high. Work up to it at two or three levels, starting just standing on the ground. You should be brused and sore from the practice. Make SURE you keep you feet and knees together, knees bent, and look up at the horizon. If you look down your likely to separate you feet, stick a leg out, and break it.

Spotting is very important. It's not just the right side of the airport, it's the exact exit spot to get to the exact opening spot withing a couple of hundred feet. Landing approach starts at OPENING. Review holding, running, and crabbing. Canopy control isn't zoom around until 500' and then get set up. It's 3000' of looking at the target and judging whether your going past, coming up short, or going off to the side.

Get an old time jumper to throw the wind drift and spot. (You may not even know what a wind drift indicator is!?) If you do it out of a Cessna with a slower speed and from a low altitude (5000') you have a better chance for a good spot.

Enjoy the quiet.

Find an instructor that taught students using round canopies for the best advice. And find a rigger that routinely packed or still packs rounds. Nothing hard but you have to at least know how.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[PROGRESSIVE 0]

Rounds are fun! Its very quite due to very little forward speed.

Practice PLFs, and know it well. Wear good boots with no hooks for ankle support, or at least tape up the hooks.

If your light weight, you may be able to do a stand up landing if you pull down on the rear risers about 10 ft -15 ft off the ground. But you still need to do a PLF if your coming down hard.

Finally, a little bit of wind, or forward ground speed is ideal. If your coming straight down its really easy to kiss your ankles and crunch in. Know your PLF!

Rounds are very safe. I haven't read anything about dying doing a low hook turn, or swoop on a round since I started jumping in 79'

[CloudOnMyTongue 0]

Okay, I have 13 jumps on rounds, T-10's, Lopo's and Paracommanders.

My advice: Practice PLF's when you feel really confident with them. Jump off the second story of a building, look at the horizon, and do a good PLF.....it will be just like the real thing.

[FrogNog 1]

Does anybody have info on what a big vs. small round is? Lots of us know what the square footage sizes on squares will mean but I for one have no idea what the diameter and model names on rounds mean in terms of maximum intelligent weight.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[rasmack 0]

Thank you very much for all the input. It seems for every answer new questions arise.

I weigh 103 kg ~ 227 lbs. What size canopy am I looking for? (and will it fit in a Javelin J4?)

Regarding spotting I have thrown streamers from 2000 ft and corrected my spot from that. However, I fully intend to get a good spotter with me on the load.

Thanks again.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[yarpos 4]

Hi

Councilman provided a lot of good advice. He and I have a very similar experience with rounds we must have been living parallel lives at some stage.

IMO at 227lbs I wouldnt go the reserve route, a T10, PC MKI or a Papillon would be fine (avoid comp PCs). Had a couple reserve landings on a GQ17ft no po, and a 26ft lo po at 190lbs and they were quite gentle, but 227lb, without a lot of other round experience, would be pushing it a bit I think (supposed to be having fun, arent we?). If you do the T10, wait for a ideal day 0-5 knots of wind, otherwise without experience you may do the "big green jellyfish dissappearing in the distance thing"...depending on your DZ this may or may not be an issue.

Have fun, Steve

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[stratostar 5]

T-10, 35ft. (parabolic)
Mk 1-2, comp's & rw PC's - 24ft
jumbo pc 28 ft
Russian 27 ft. & 23ft.
PAP 24ft-? I think.
If I remember correct...
Read you a pointer manual.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[yarpos 4]

Hi

I dont think you can equate basic diameter and square footage to expected outcomes. For many years my reserve was much smaller than my main (both rounds) and it was brilliant (GQ 17ft). Basically the same design + zero/lopo/F111 type discussion as today.

regards, Steve

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[riggerrob 562]

I weigh 103 kg ~ 227 lbs. What size canopy am I looking for? (and will it fit in a Javelin J4?)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee!
Hee!
Start by borrowing a Javelin J7, i.e. a student rig designed for a Manta 288 or larger.

Secondly, at your weight (227 pounds) you are limited to larger round canopies: C-9, T-10, Para-Commanders and maybe Phantom 28. Also remember that older fabrics do not age nearly as gracefully as modern ZP fabrics, so you had best limit your canopy choices to newer round canopies.
All of the above canopies can be attached to 3-ring risers, however the trick is finding a set of 3-ring risers wide enough to accept L-bag connector links, Hint, ask you local rigger if he has any spare tandem risers.

[riggerrob 562]

Quote

Does anybody have info on what a big vs. small round is? Lots of us know what the square footage sizes on squares will mean but I for one have no idea what the diameter and model names on rounds mean in terms of maximum intelligent weight.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When in doubt, follow the manufacturers' guidelines for suspended weight.

Determining the size of round canopies is problematic because there are two major measuring methods, with a dozen variations.
Old military canopies are measured by diameter, while a couple of civilian manufacturers state surface area.

Back in the days of flat, circular canopies, it was easy to state diameter (measured from one edge, all the way across to the other side).
Measurement got a bit more complicated when they started building conical canopies (flat circulars missing a few gores), but they stuck with measuring diameter, even if they could no longer lay the canopy flat.
Measurement got even more complicated when they started building parabolic canopies (T-10). You could still - sort of - measure radius from the center to the circumference, but then manufacturers started stating "projected diameter" or "inflated diameter."
Eyes rolling back in head!!!!!

Two American civilian manufacturers (Butler and National) prefer to state surface area. For Example, National sells a lot of "425" canopies to aerobatic pilots and Butler's best-seller has 500 square feet of fabric.

Then we get into the whole question of whether dimensions came from the drawing board, the cutting table, the final inspection table or some mystical "projected diameter."

Please march me off to the loony bin!!!!

[sfzombie13 310]

i am still trying to figure out why anyone would want to cut away from a round just so they don't have to land it. it seems quite silly to me, kinda like being scared. if you keep your fet and knees together and your legs bent, you'll be fine. as for plf's, ask someone who has been airborne to instruct you on a proper one. when we did our sustained airborne training prior to a jump, we used a 3' platform in pea gravels(sawdust isn't used anymore due to mold at the bottom). try finding a steerable round, like an mc1-1c. they work a lot better than a t-10. when we started using the new sf-10, that was almost like a square. i stood up 2 of 3 jumps. also, be prepared to do a rear plf, i found that they are the most common, at least when the winds are above 5-7 knots.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[Amazon 7]

Quote

be prepared to do a rear plf, i found that they are the most common, at least when the winds are above 5-7 knots.

An old trick under rounds that I used to do when the winds were not optimal was to turn the canopy so it was 30 to 45 degrees off the wind... that way you avoid the feet-butt-head landings that going backwards ends up being.. It places you in a more optimal position to do a good PLF.

PS : I have 4 piggyback rigs with round reserves in them... a rig with a Papillion antoher rig with a Mil surplus PC Mk-II and several rigs with C-9 rounds.

Since I have a LOT of water landings. I prefer those.. big splash is a whole lot more fun than big thud. Go look on Skydiving movies.com.. and search for AMAZON... I jumped an old sporterized T-10 a couple years ago.... yup.. big thud

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have 9 jumps on RS-4A round military parachute. I don`t want to to have more. It`s something like connected to a balloon and landings are unpredictable: from tip-toe to bang...

[diablopilot 2]

I'll try to post photos and a description of my cutaway system with the round in it later....

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[councilman24 36]

Quote

I weigh 103 kg ~ 227 lbs. What size canopy am I looking for? (and will it fit in a Javelin J4?)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Start by borrowing a Javelin J7, i.e. a student rig designed for a Manta 288 or larger.

Secondly, at your weight (227 pounds) you are limited to larger round canopies: C-9, T-10, Para-Commanders and maybe Phantom 28. Also remember that older fabrics do not age nearly as gracefully as modern ZP fabrics, so you had best limit your canopy choices to newer round canopies.

Damn, Rob! a C-9?? I didn't like jumping one when I weighed 160 lb's!!!!

At 227 lbs I can't think of anything I'd suggest someone jump who didn't jump rounds when they were lighter. I got away with my Phantom 28 at 220 lbs but I'm sure glad I hit the peas. But that's with 300 round jumps. Maybe a jumpbo PC.

BTW the Phantom 28 went into by my V-5. Hmmmm actually I think I put it in my Reflex instead of the Sabre 170.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[maggott 0]

I second everything Terry Says!
I too learned on rounds back in the day when you had to have 100 jumps before you could touch a square.

My advice is first and foremost: master the PLF. I've made a few PC jumps recently and was saved by the fact that the PLF is still firmly rooted in my muscle memory! If you master the PLF a round parachute is little threat.

with the F111 canopies available, you should be able to pack one into any mid-size square bag. I would recommend the talking to your favorite rigger about a diaper AND a deployment bag...

From the old days: rounds in bags can be a problem as the skirt can begin to inflate while the top third of the canopy is still bagged. The diaper prevents this until you have full extension (or close to it). I would avoid the free-pack in a main container. They are not made for that... they're designed for canopies in bags.

Feet and knees together! Eyes on the horizon! :)

~Maggott
__________________________________________________________________________________
"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

[firstime 0]

***Jump off the second story of a building

are you serious????

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Jump off the second story of a building

are you serious????

I know some who used to do this.. when we were a tad younger and in VERY good condition... Our 2 story barracks had a small balcony at each end where the last 4 rooms on the first floor did not have the second floor. We used to do PLFs off of there.. it scared the hell out of the students who would be starting training first thing Monday morning. Part of their training was doing PLF's then they would progress on to the swing landing trainer....alll so they would have some training should they ever have to bail with their C-9 canopys

[mjosparky 3]

I also had over 200 jumps on rounds before jumping a square. I still do an occasional test jump on round canopies. I would advise you to take a pill and lay down until this feeling goes away. You have nothing to gain, nothing to prove and stand a good chance of getting yourself hurt.

Sparky

PS: Have you ever wondered why no one jumps them any more. Even Bob Sinclair gave up rounds a few years ago.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals