Packing a malfunction !!!

[melushell 0]

If a packer packs a sport and it has a malfunction?

what are the "consequences" ?

I mean for a linetwist on a high performance...ok...u get away

but what if the packer f#&@s up completely a canopy from a packing error?
a lineover that just destroyed a new VX for example

what are the scenarios, the rules, or the customs?
from my knowledge at some DZ's the packer pays the reserve repack

[PhreeZone 15]

Nothing.. you pays your dollar, you take your chances.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

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If a packer packs a sport and it has a malfunction?

what are the "consequences" ?

The jumper has a reserve ride. Some packers that are riggers will re-pack the reserve for free.

If you don't want a packer-packed mal, don't use packers.

Derek

[livnbored 0]

As someone once said,

"We'll guarantee our work when the manufacturers guarantee theirs."

[Feeblemind 1]

My understanding when I asked a similar question was:

you pack it, you deploy it, if you chop it then you buy a re-pack

You watch it packed, you pay for the pack, you deploy it, if you cop it then you buy a repack.

Basically my understanding is packers want you to be happy with their work, repeat business is a plus

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[No_Shoes 0]

paying 5$ is just to get you out of packing, it doesn't get you out of paying for a reserve repack. If you are worried about someone pack a mal then pack yourself ya know?

[payback462 0]

the more i watch other people pack, the more and more im convinced that packing a malfuntion is almost impossible.

as long as the canopy is oriented properly, brakes are set, the slider is up, the PC is cocked, and the container is closed properly, the shits gonna open. people just learning to pack prove it, time and time again. (and even missing some of those steps it still manages to open)



and if you freak out and chop because you had two linetwists on a big, docile canopy, you still need to pay the packer.

never managed to pack a packer induced malfuntion myself

[pash 0]

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and if you freak out and chop because you had two linetwists on a big, docile canopy, you still need to pay the packer.

That's exactly what I did:

1) AHHHHHHHHHH!!!
2) Chop
3) Pay

Although I had way more linetwists... like two-and-a-half

[kelel01 1]

Hmmm . . . not so sure about that. I packed myself a "nuisance", and I know I packed it that way because someone walked by and said "You're packing line twists". Sure enough . . . I also had a premature brake fire. Never have those when anyone else packs for me, and that was more or less my third time packing for myself.

If I was flying a smaller, more aggressive canopy, that "nuisance" would almost certainly have been a mal.

[payback462 0]

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That's exactly what I did

yeah, but thats ok, because you bought your beer, learned from it, and have the chigger scars to prove it

when you coming back out to the DZ fool!

[pash 0]

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and have the chigger scars to prove it

Damn fine memory mister! I have you penciled in for spring / summer I need to get with some instructors and learn what I've already learned all over again because I'm a big non-current ASS.

jason

[FrogNog 1]

Anybody have comments on one of the original poster's questions: what if the packer totally hoses up? For example, what if you have a PC in tow, land the reserve, and find the packer's power tool still in your main closing loop? Sure, the jumper sort of deserves that for not checking his own pin, but this is different from "must have been your body position."

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[wmw999 2,178]

If the packer definitely and obviously made a mistake, they'd probably offer to pay for the repack.

If they didn't, the most effective thing to do would be to tell the story around the dropzone, and let nature take its course. But you'd better be darn sure of yourself, because if it backfires they'll still be packing, and you'll probably be looking for another DZ because the old one isn't fun any more.

Me, I just pack my own. My packer's too slow, but at least I know she'll pay for the reserve repack that way

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[payback462 0]

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Anybody have comments on one of the original poster's questions: what if the packer totally hoses up? For example, what if you have a PC in tow, land the reserve, and find the packer's power tool still in your main closing loop?

if that was the case, then i personally would offer to go help them look for their freebag, and offer to give them a repack/pay for their repack.

if it was someone working under my supervision id probably hand them an application to the wal-mart down the street.

[darkwing 4]

I certainly would NOT expect a repack, or anything else. I see waaaayyyy too many people blaming their packer for every stinkin little thing about their openings. I view my packer as a surrogate, who has no responsibility, which probably puts me in an extreme position compared to most jumpers. Of course if they insisted on paying, I would put up a fight, but if they want to claim that they pay for reserve repacks (as some do) I won't prevent them from being able to say it.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[freefalle 0]

I had a Malfunction at the Dublin Boogie, the canopy opened so hard it broke lines, I was using a packer and I am pretty sure the hard opening was the result of poor packing. However, I did not expect the packing concession to pay for the repack. Although she did pay for it, and it was appreicated.

[livnbored 0]

The main point is give yourself a pincheck. I don't think any experienced packer would be that careless, but alas, most incidents occur due to a chain of events.

[rushmc 18]

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the more i watch other people pack, the more and more im convinced that packing a malfuntion is almost impossible.

as long as the canopy is oriented properly, brakes are set, the slider is up, the PC is cocked, and the container is closed properly, the shits gonna open. people just learning to pack prove it, time and time again. (and even missing some of those steps it still manages to open)



and if you freak out and chop because you had two linetwists on a big, docile canopy, you still need to pay the packer.

never managed to pack a packer induced malfuntion myself

Glad you used the word "almost"! I can show you how to pack a bag lock if you want

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I had a Malfunction at the Dublin Boogie, the canopy opened so hard it broke lines, I was using a packer and I am pretty sure the hard opening was the result of poor packing. However, I did not expect the packing concession to pay for the repack. Although she did pay for it, and it was appreicated.

How are you sure the hard opening was the result of poor packing? Many times hard openings are due to pitching in a track. I have seen someone deploy while tracking and seen them get a slammer. On the ground later, that person was trying to blame the packer. Good thing I had the opening on video because the jumper denied they pitched in a track.

If you knew it was because of poor packing, why did you continue to use a packer who you knew didn't pack correctly?

[riggerrob 563]

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The main point is give yourself a pincheck. I don't think any experienced packer would be that careless, but alas, most incidents occur due to a chain of events.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee!
Hee!
Reminds me of an incident, years ago, back when Square One ran the loft at Perris.
Someone stopped a chick from boarding the airplane because they could not see her pilot chute handle.
She stormed back to Square One demanding to know what kind of clutz had mis-packed her main parachute.
None of Square One's riggers would fess-up, instead they pointed to a sign beside the loft door "Main repacks $15."

Since she was not willing to pay that much, the rigger merely stuffed her (un-opened) d-bag back in her container and tied it shut with a pull-up cord, (no pin in sight) as per standard loft practice.

A pin-check would have prevented all this embarrassment.

[Squeak 17]

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The main point is give yourself a pincheck. I don't think any experienced packer would be that careless, but alas, most incidents occur due to a chain of events.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee!
Hee!
Reminds me of an incident, years ago, back when Square One ran the loft at Perris.
Someone stopped a chick from boarding the airplane because they could not see her pilot chute handle.
She stormed back to Square One demanding to know what kind of clutz had mis-packed her main parachute.
None of Square One's riggers would fess-up, instead they pointed to a sign beside the loft door "Main repacks $15."

Since she was not willing to pay that much, the rigger merely stuffed her (un-opened) d-bag back in her container and tied it shut with a pull-up cord, (no pin in sight) as per standard loft practice.

A pin-check would have prevented all this embarrassment.

Whilst I agree with the rationale they used I don;t think it's very "Hee Hee" to leave a rig looking like it's jumpable, just incase someone doesnot check it properly. I think leaving the main tray obviously not packed would be a better option. I'm not saying leave the main out completely just cram it in the main tray and leave it. Don't cloes it up

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[mjosparky 3]

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I had a Malfunction at the Dublin Boogie, the canopy opened so hard it broke lines, I was using a packer and I am pretty sure the hard opening was the result of poor packing. However, I did not expect the packing concession to pay for the repack. Although she did pay for it, and it was appreicated.

What was the "poor packing" technique that was used to cause the hard opening?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[dragon2 0]

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I don;t think it's very "Hee Hee" to leave a rig looking like it's jumpable, just incase someone doesnot check it properly. I think leaving the main tray obviously not packed would be a better option. I'm not saying leave the main out completely just cram it in the main tray and leave it. Don't cloes it up

There's one guy at our DZ something like that happened to:

He was visiting another DZ, didn't bring his rig. He was allowed to jump a staff rig there, the owner of which had left it in the hangar but was not present.
Opening took a loooong time!
Turned out the canopy had just been fieldpacked and HAD BEEN LEFT DAISY-CHAINED!
It did LOOK jumpable from the outside though, and luckily the daisy chain was not closed by the slider. So the canopy actually opened!

I've also been warned not to leave say rapidelinks untightened on my main or pilotchute and leave the canopy like that for a while. If it LOOKS ok, you may assume it IS.

If you get your rig back after a repack from our loft you get it field-packed and roughly closed with a pullup cord, easy to spot.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I had a Malfunction at the Dublin Boogie, the canopy opened so hard it broke lines, I was using a packer and I am pretty sure the hard opening was the result of poor packing. However, I did not expect the packing concession to pay for the repack. Although she did pay for it, and it was appreicated.

What was the "poor packing" technique that was used to cause the hard opening?

Sparky

I asked this question a few days ago and I am still waiting to hear the answer.

[dayle 0]

The bottom line is you pay for the pack job, not the opening or the result of the opening.

If I have a problem with an opening, I tell my packer, but I do not blame them for any ofthe results.