Any pilots here? I'm curious about this rare type of landing..

[CloudyHead 0]

I remember reading about a journalist who was flying to Afghanistan who talked of a special type of landing they would have to make as to avoid being shot at by taliban forces who had positions close to the airport. They would keep a high altitude until they were directly above the airfield, and then "nose dive" all the way down and level off just in time to make a regular landing pattern.

I got curious about this again because i just listened to Graham Hancock and he was talking of a similar landing his pilot had to do in Ethiopia back in the 90's to avoid being shot at.

What is this landing called? It sounds more intense than skydiving IMO.. lol...

[AggieDave 6]

Hook turn?

Swoop?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CloudyHead 0]

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Hook turn?

Swoop?

lol this is exactly why i wanted a pilot to answer this!

[kd5xb 1]

You could probably call this a "tactical approach". Most military fighters do this on nearly every approach -- fly directly over the runway, then make a sharp turn (break turn) to slow down, configure for landing, and land.

I'm a jumper. Even though I don't always have money for jumps, and may not ever own a rig again, I'll always be a jumper.

[AggieDave 6]

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Hook turn?

Swoop?

lol this is exactly why i wanted a pilot to answer this!

BAH!

I'm a canopy pilot, that doesn't count?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Beerlight 0]

I've heard of them called "assault" landings. But tactical is another word that was thrown around for them.

[skydiver30960 0]

I would call it "I need a clean pair of underwear, please."


Elvisio "straight in approach for me, thank you" Rodriguez

[BIGUN 1,053]

They discuss the landing you're talking about here. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/99625/

Extra Credit: http://www.wingsoverkansas.com/alford/article.asp?id=833

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[sacex250 0]

Combat Zone Landing
Courtesy of the Blue Angels' C-130 "Fat Albert"

As opposed to a "Tactical Approach" which is commonly referred to as an "Overhead Break".

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[davelepka 4]

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What is this landing called? It sounds more intense than skydiving IMO.. lol

It's not what you think it is. There's no danger added over making a 'regular' landing, it's just done to a tighter tolerance.

Airplanes usually fly a 'stabilized' approach, which means they're configured for landing, on the glide slope, and at the proper airspeed for 'awhile' before touchdown. They do this for two reasons, the first is that it usually prevents new or shitty pilots from doing stupid things on final approach, like diving for the end of the runway, or making low turns to line up with the runway. Beyond those pilots, a stabilzed approach is used to smooth the flow of traffic into an airport. It gets all the pilots flying the same pattern, at a slower speed, and makes eaiser to sequence planes into (and out of) an airport.

The problem with a stabilized approach is that it involves flying slow and low and in a straight line, so basicaly a perfect target for an RPG or small-arms fire. The solution is the type of approach you described above, but it's far from the 'thrilling' event they make it out to be.

Look at the video of Fat Albert. You can see that the touchdown is at the normal speed and in the normal spot on the runway. They slow way down, dive toward the runway and get back up to a 'standard' apporach speed, and then land. Any of these 'tactical' or 'combat' approaches all involve manuvering to avoid being shot at, followed by an 'abbreviated' stabilized final approach.

Probably more fun that 'usual' approach (minus the threat of RPG or small-arms fire) but no different than some of the hijinks I've seen at DZs over the years. If you ever see your jump pilot wheel around a low turn and level out just in time to plant the wheels on the runway (happens more at private strips than public-use airports), then you just saw a 'tactical' approach.

[jonstark 8]

I was posted in Luanda, Angola in 1986 during the civil war between the MPLA and the US backed UNITA rebels. I was flying in a Gulfstream III with the Minister of Foreign Affairs all around Africa and inside Angola. As Jonas Savimbi had Stinger missiles we often got overhead our Angolan destination at 10,000' and tightly spiraled down to land. Ass puckering puts it mildly.

Turns out that our very own Jim Hooper from Z-Hills was there at the same time with UNITA. We have had a couple great laughs about the coincidence.

jon

[theonlyski 3]

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Probably more fun that 'usual' approach (minus the threat of RPG or small-arms fire) but no different than some of the hijinks I've seen at DZs over the years. If you ever see your jump pilot wheel around a low turn and level out just in time to plant the wheels on the runway (happens more at private strips than public-use airports), then you just saw a 'tactical' approach.

+1, the best part is the initial part of the dive, after that, (especially sitting in the back of a -130) you barely feel much difference. The turns are a bit more noticeable though.

I liked the short take offs and hard banks in the -130 more.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[akjmpplt 0]

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They slow way down, dive toward the runway and get back up to a 'standard' apporach speed, and then land. Any of these 'tactical' or 'combat' approaches all involve manuvering to avoid being shot at, followed by an 'abbreviated' stabilized final approach.

I'm not so sure the Fat Albert thing would be very useful in a threat area -- they were flying low and very slow straight in to the point where they started the dramatic descent -- would make a very nice target.

The approaches I've seen and rode in involved a tight spiral over the airfield area.

SmugMug

[SkydiveJack 1]

Sounds like a normal turboprop jump plane landing to me.

[Krip 2]

Hi Dave

I'm not a pilot but I do have 2000 hr's flying time in C-130's from 67-70. Very nice job for a enlisted swine draft dodger.

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Any of these 'tactical' or 'combat' approaches all involve manuvering to avoid being shot at, followed by an 'abbreviated' stabilized final approach.

Bingo back in the late 60's We would fly around a nice green tropical country in a C-130 that had a lot of "Mcnasty's" that wanted to hurt us.

It was long enough ago that we didn't have to worry about the Stinger type stuff .

The way I remember Our approach was "high and tight" Don't descend below a certain altitude until until your inside the base perimeter. Nose down, flare just before impact and pound it into the ground full reverse and breaks as required.

We rigged up a metal ring and a pair of seat belts so we could stand up on landings by the paratroop
door and watch the show
Eventually the planes took a beating with the pound in the ground technique and the wing roots started developing cracks and a couple of planes lost a wing on landing. Once they realized there may be a structural problem and started looking the whole fleet had cracks some just worse than others.

Anyone remember the Video of a C-130 (civi) about 15 -20 yr's ago being used for fire fighting purposes that lost a wing in flt.

I suspect the corkscrew landing pattern is in response to the stinger type weapons. Different weapon differerent counter measures.
Mcnasty's are all over the world not just at your local DZ.

If anyone is interested: google stolen c-130 mildenhall england. Crew chief didn't want to play anymore, took his plane and tried to go home.

R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder

[maxmadmax 8]

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They discuss the landing you're talking about here. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/99625/

Extra Credit: http://www.wingsoverkansas.com/alford/article.asp?id=833

Nice read.
Thanks!

Don't go away mad....just go away!

[MikeJD 0]

I'm pretty sure I remember this being referred to as a 'Cuban landing' at an air show when I was a kid.

[sacex250 0]

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I'm pretty sure I remember this being referred to as a 'Cuban landing' at an air show when I was a kid.

You're probably thinking of a "Cuban Eight" which is an aerobatic maneuver. You'd definitely hear that over and over at an airshow.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[Krip 2]

Hi

Google search: C-130 assualt landing
One pic is worth a 1k words. You tube has lots of videos. video & audio if you want to hear 4 turbo's in max reverse.

Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtObGx-XrhQ&feature=related.

There are plenty more on the same subject of all different typse of acft on uTube .

Enjoy
R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder

[JohnMitchell 14]

Pretty damn impressive. It's all about managing your energy, either airspeed or altitude. Done right, a thing of beauty. Done wrong, you're gonna bend the plane a bit.

I've done a tactical assault landing in a C-17, but I don't think we came in that steep. I don't think the Moose can dirty up as well as the Herc.

[Krip 2]

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Pretty damn impressive. It's all about managing your energy, either airspeed or altitude. Done right, a thing of beauty. Done wrong, you're gonna bend the plane a bit.

I've done a tactical assault landing in a C-17, but I don't think we came in that steep. I don't think the Moose can dirty up as well as the Herc.

Hi

The worst assult landing I experienced was when the PIC decided to let the CP try one at the assualt landing practice area. To simulate real world conditions we had to load ballast maybe 15 tons of RR ties.

The CP didn't flare soon enough and we landed so hard that my headset flew off. Didn't brake anything

The funniest assualt landing we had was on our way to Mcnasty's and we had a RON at Wake island. On approach we were standing behind the PIC smoking a cigar and I guess the PIC thought it was time for payback.

He decided it was a good time for another practice assualt landing. The tower at Wake was at our steep angle of approach & actually scrambled the fire trucks. I scrambled for my seatbelt on the ft deck.

The first time we heard of a wing coming off on landing was around 68-69. Talked with the crew the next day. Upon landing the intruments to the engines & fuel on the wing that broke off went to zero and the bird made a hard turn in the opposite direction and ran into something.

The Flt crew thought they had a flame out on the bad side. It wasn't until they were running away and looked over their shoulder that they realized the wing had broke off.

FWIW that wasn't a assualt landing just a pilot that got distracted and landed a little to hard.

R.I.P.

One Jump Wonder

[Krip 2]

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Sounds like a normal turboprop jump plane landing to me.

Hi Jack

Actually it is. The Turbo's landing at the LP boogie are a prime example. Longer landing roll means longer taxi time It adds up to a wasted tach time & maybe load. The sound of the props changing their pitch on landing puts a smile on my mug.
The only difference is the C-130's, they usually landed loaded, some times to the max. The noise of those 4 props going into reverse

One Jump Wonder