FomoPopo 0 #1 February 2, 2005 Just bought a new/used rig, without a ADD. I'm new, with about 100 jumps, and picked up the rig for a fair price. My main rig has an ADD, this would be a back-up. Question: Is buying a ADD the norm, or just nice to have? I have several friends in the sport, but all have less than 300 jumps. Besides, depending on the day, and their mood, their answers change... I've jumped with some groups that refuse to allow ADD's while doing RW. I've been told that false openings are typically found on old systems, and are extremely rare on the newer versions. I personally haven't had an incident, or close call. The reasons to have one are pretty simple, but why would anyone NOT choose to have one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #2 February 2, 2005 QuoteI've jumped with some groups that refuse to allow ADD's while doing RW This attitude was dropped many years ago. Although skydiving with attention deficit disorder (ADD) is not a good idea, currently automatic activation devices (AAD) are not discriminated against.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
554 0 #3 February 2, 2005 If you and/or your rig have ADD, I would suggest getting an AAD. If neither of you have ADD, you probably don't need an AAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 136 #4 February 3, 2005 QuoteI've jumped with some groups that refuse to allow AAD's while doing RW. I've been told that false openings are typically found on old systems, and are extremely rare on the newer versions. My personnal recommendation would be to get an AAD for your second rig. Preferrably a modern one, and the same as you have on your primary rig. If you have an old AAD (Kap3, Fxc), once again my recommendation would be to change it and get something more recent (Cypres 1/2, Vigil). If you fill in your profile a bit and do some research you will also have more credibility when touching this kind of subject as it has already been treated lots of times. This is not a flaming or a Troll calling, just another recommendation. My recommendations are worth around 4cts, because the smallest swiss coin is a 5 centimes..scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #5 February 3, 2005 I don't think you can choose if you get ADD or not... I'm pretty sure its genetic. search the forums, pros/cons of AADs have been discussed to death. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakflyer9999 1 #6 February 3, 2005 Evaluate the type of jumping you're doing, the people that you're jumping with, the aircraft you jump and your general health. What is the relative risk? I know one person who purchased a Cypres within 5 minutes of landing after having been kicked in the head and knocked unconscious for a few seconds. When I returned to the sport after a long layoff, I personally chose not to purchase an AAD until I had acquired all the rest of my gear. But I was making solo jumps from a Cessna. Being overweight and middle aged I did have some medical concerns, but I figured that the risk was minimal until I could purchase an AAD. Last week my rigger installed the used Cypres that I finally bought. I probably would not have bought it yet, but my wife asked me to and I happened to find a great deal on a used Cypres. It gives her some peace of mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #7 February 3, 2005 AADs are insurance for the unforseeable. And sometimes for the shoulda-forseen-able. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #8 February 3, 2005 Personally, I promised my dad that I'd never jump "without one of those little computer things in the backpack that opens the parachute for you." so, yes, if I bought a second rig, I'd find a cypres. I think it's a worthwhile investment in your safety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropzonefool 0 #9 February 3, 2005 I used to pull around 2.5K or 2K. I know what a risk I was taking! After I bought a Cypress2 last year I moved my pull up to 3.5K to 3k. I think one who has an AAD must adjust their survival plan. I once saw a jumper buy student gear with a big ole reserve and an FXC 1200 AAD. He put a Sabre 170 as a main. Below 2000' he pulled a 180 front riser an guess what? His two out was stable in a Bi-plane. Due to poor training, or a brain fart he cleared the breaks on the reserve and the shit hit the fan. The configuration went sloppy and he cut away, the main (cut away) entangled in the reserve suspension lines (RSL helped). It finaly cleard the reserve at about 50 ft. The jumper had time to turn into the wind(90 degrees) and land unevently. Lucky guy! The jumper stated he could feel the AAD fire, even though he could not see it happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pms07 3 #10 February 3, 2005 QuoteJust bought a new/used rig, without a ADD. I'm new, with about 100 jumps, and picked up the rig for a fair price. My main rig has an ADD, this would be a back-up. Question: Is buying a ADD the norm, or just nice to have? I have several friends in the sport, but all have less than 300 jumps. Besides, depending on the day, and their mood, their answers change... I've jumped with some groups that refuse to allow ADD's while doing RW. I've been told that false openings are typically found on old systems, and are extremely rare on the newer versions. I personally haven't had an incident, or close call. The reasons to have one are pretty simple, but why would anyone NOT choose to have one? Well, sure it's "nice to have". Especially in the event that the alternative may be dying in some relatively rare, but certainly possible, situations. I don't really mean to be a smart-ass but the first question you posed really almost answers itself... You've taken a a step in the correct direction though..trying to get advice from someone besides your 300 jump friends that apparently aren't sure whether an AAD is a good idea. Get a modern AAD with a proven track record (read CYPRES) and no one should have concerns doing RW with you. In the circumstances indicated in your post there is no reason not to have an AAD. pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #11 February 3, 2005 Quotewhy would anyone NOT choose to have one? Money. Or Ego. I think Tom Piras fell, quite literally, into the 2nd category. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites btucker 0 #12 February 3, 2005 QuoteI know one person who purchased a Cypres within 5 minutes of landing after having been kicked in the head and knocked unconscious for a few seconds. My 3rd rig (mostly used as a spare for a team) didn't have a CYPRES until I almost suffered that fate. I dumped on instinct after a heavy impact to the base of the skull during an 8way exit. Exit was at 14, it took me until 10 until I was with the plot again. I purchased one pretty quick smart after that - especially as I was loaning that rig to alot of people. A second hand CYPRES1 can be very cheap. Some DZ's and countries require you have an AAD, so with two units you can always jump everywhere - even if one is away for service. Blue dreams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #13 February 3, 2005 QuoteQuestion: Is buying a ADD the norm, or just nice to have? Both Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #14 February 3, 2005 An AAD is not a needed piece of equipment like some think. It is a nice thing to have as insurance to keep yourself alive if you do something stupid. Most fatalities/AAD fires are the fault of a stupid act. However they do allow you to survive a stupid act. The trick is to have one, but still not do stupid acts so you don't need it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 26 #15 February 3, 2005 I'll go along the same lines Ron stated. But back to your original post: where in the world would people not do RW with people using AADs? Modern ones that is....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,112 #16 February 3, 2005 It's better to have one and not need it; than to not have one and need it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FomoPopo 0 #17 February 3, 2005 ADD...?? Well, this alone answers my question... For some reason I had "Automatic Deployment Devise" bouncing around in my head... The scary part, not sure why... Must have heard it referred to as that by someone in the resent past... Who knows. Thanks for straightening me out. Thanks for the insight. Looks like I will be doing some shopping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,478 #18 February 3, 2005 >where in the world would people not do RW with people using AADs? >Modern ones that is.... This was true when I started, 15 years ago. People were just starting to use cypreses, but the old prejudices were still there. I remember one guy who wasn't allowed to get in the vee of our cessna because "his reserve might fire and wrap around the strut." He had a cypres. This went away gradually as the cypres became more accepted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #19 February 3, 2005 QuoteADD...?? Well, this alone answers my question... For some reason I had "Automatic Deployment Devise" bouncing around in my head... They have been called many things over the years. ADD: Automatic Deployment Device AOD: Automatic Opening Device AAD: Automatic Activation Device If fact I think the military still uses the term AOD."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
piisfish 136 #4 February 3, 2005 QuoteI've jumped with some groups that refuse to allow AAD's while doing RW. I've been told that false openings are typically found on old systems, and are extremely rare on the newer versions. My personnal recommendation would be to get an AAD for your second rig. Preferrably a modern one, and the same as you have on your primary rig. If you have an old AAD (Kap3, Fxc), once again my recommendation would be to change it and get something more recent (Cypres 1/2, Vigil). If you fill in your profile a bit and do some research you will also have more credibility when touching this kind of subject as it has already been treated lots of times. This is not a flaming or a Troll calling, just another recommendation. My recommendations are worth around 4cts, because the smallest swiss coin is a 5 centimes..scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #5 February 3, 2005 I don't think you can choose if you get ADD or not... I'm pretty sure its genetic. search the forums, pros/cons of AADs have been discussed to death. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #6 February 3, 2005 Evaluate the type of jumping you're doing, the people that you're jumping with, the aircraft you jump and your general health. What is the relative risk? I know one person who purchased a Cypres within 5 minutes of landing after having been kicked in the head and knocked unconscious for a few seconds. When I returned to the sport after a long layoff, I personally chose not to purchase an AAD until I had acquired all the rest of my gear. But I was making solo jumps from a Cessna. Being overweight and middle aged I did have some medical concerns, but I figured that the risk was minimal until I could purchase an AAD. Last week my rigger installed the used Cypres that I finally bought. I probably would not have bought it yet, but my wife asked me to and I happened to find a great deal on a used Cypres. It gives her some peace of mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #7 February 3, 2005 AADs are insurance for the unforseeable. And sometimes for the shoulda-forseen-able. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #8 February 3, 2005 Personally, I promised my dad that I'd never jump "without one of those little computer things in the backpack that opens the parachute for you." so, yes, if I bought a second rig, I'd find a cypres. I think it's a worthwhile investment in your safety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #9 February 3, 2005 I used to pull around 2.5K or 2K. I know what a risk I was taking! After I bought a Cypress2 last year I moved my pull up to 3.5K to 3k. I think one who has an AAD must adjust their survival plan. I once saw a jumper buy student gear with a big ole reserve and an FXC 1200 AAD. He put a Sabre 170 as a main. Below 2000' he pulled a 180 front riser an guess what? His two out was stable in a Bi-plane. Due to poor training, or a brain fart he cleared the breaks on the reserve and the shit hit the fan. The configuration went sloppy and he cut away, the main (cut away) entangled in the reserve suspension lines (RSL helped). It finaly cleard the reserve at about 50 ft. The jumper had time to turn into the wind(90 degrees) and land unevently. Lucky guy! The jumper stated he could feel the AAD fire, even though he could not see it happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #10 February 3, 2005 QuoteJust bought a new/used rig, without a ADD. I'm new, with about 100 jumps, and picked up the rig for a fair price. My main rig has an ADD, this would be a back-up. Question: Is buying a ADD the norm, or just nice to have? I have several friends in the sport, but all have less than 300 jumps. Besides, depending on the day, and their mood, their answers change... I've jumped with some groups that refuse to allow ADD's while doing RW. I've been told that false openings are typically found on old systems, and are extremely rare on the newer versions. I personally haven't had an incident, or close call. The reasons to have one are pretty simple, but why would anyone NOT choose to have one? Well, sure it's "nice to have". Especially in the event that the alternative may be dying in some relatively rare, but certainly possible, situations. I don't really mean to be a smart-ass but the first question you posed really almost answers itself... You've taken a a step in the correct direction though..trying to get advice from someone besides your 300 jump friends that apparently aren't sure whether an AAD is a good idea. Get a modern AAD with a proven track record (read CYPRES) and no one should have concerns doing RW with you. In the circumstances indicated in your post there is no reason not to have an AAD. pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #11 February 3, 2005 Quotewhy would anyone NOT choose to have one? Money. Or Ego. I think Tom Piras fell, quite literally, into the 2nd category. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #12 February 3, 2005 QuoteI know one person who purchased a Cypres within 5 minutes of landing after having been kicked in the head and knocked unconscious for a few seconds. My 3rd rig (mostly used as a spare for a team) didn't have a CYPRES until I almost suffered that fate. I dumped on instinct after a heavy impact to the base of the skull during an 8way exit. Exit was at 14, it took me until 10 until I was with the plot again. I purchased one pretty quick smart after that - especially as I was loaning that rig to alot of people. A second hand CYPRES1 can be very cheap. Some DZ's and countries require you have an AAD, so with two units you can always jump everywhere - even if one is away for service. Blue dreams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 February 3, 2005 QuoteQuestion: Is buying a ADD the norm, or just nice to have? Both Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #14 February 3, 2005 An AAD is not a needed piece of equipment like some think. It is a nice thing to have as insurance to keep yourself alive if you do something stupid. Most fatalities/AAD fires are the fault of a stupid act. However they do allow you to survive a stupid act. The trick is to have one, but still not do stupid acts so you don't need it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 26 #15 February 3, 2005 I'll go along the same lines Ron stated. But back to your original post: where in the world would people not do RW with people using AADs? Modern ones that is....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,112 #16 February 3, 2005 It's better to have one and not need it; than to not have one and need it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FomoPopo 0 #17 February 3, 2005 ADD...?? Well, this alone answers my question... For some reason I had "Automatic Deployment Devise" bouncing around in my head... The scary part, not sure why... Must have heard it referred to as that by someone in the resent past... Who knows. Thanks for straightening me out. Thanks for the insight. Looks like I will be doing some shopping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,478 #18 February 3, 2005 >where in the world would people not do RW with people using AADs? >Modern ones that is.... This was true when I started, 15 years ago. People were just starting to use cypreses, but the old prejudices were still there. I remember one guy who wasn't allowed to get in the vee of our cessna because "his reserve might fire and wrap around the strut." He had a cypres. This went away gradually as the cypres became more accepted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #19 February 3, 2005 QuoteADD...?? Well, this alone answers my question... For some reason I had "Automatic Deployment Devise" bouncing around in my head... They have been called many things over the years. ADD: Automatic Deployment Device AOD: Automatic Opening Device AAD: Automatic Activation Device If fact I think the military still uses the term AOD."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Ron 7 #14 February 3, 2005 An AAD is not a needed piece of equipment like some think. It is a nice thing to have as insurance to keep yourself alive if you do something stupid. Most fatalities/AAD fires are the fault of a stupid act. However they do allow you to survive a stupid act. The trick is to have one, but still not do stupid acts so you don't need it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #15 February 3, 2005 I'll go along the same lines Ron stated. But back to your original post: where in the world would people not do RW with people using AADs? Modern ones that is....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,112 #16 February 3, 2005 It's better to have one and not need it; than to not have one and need it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FomoPopo 0 #17 February 3, 2005 ADD...?? Well, this alone answers my question... For some reason I had "Automatic Deployment Devise" bouncing around in my head... The scary part, not sure why... Must have heard it referred to as that by someone in the resent past... Who knows. Thanks for straightening me out. Thanks for the insight. Looks like I will be doing some shopping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,478 #18 February 3, 2005 >where in the world would people not do RW with people using AADs? >Modern ones that is.... This was true when I started, 15 years ago. People were just starting to use cypreses, but the old prejudices were still there. I remember one guy who wasn't allowed to get in the vee of our cessna because "his reserve might fire and wrap around the strut." He had a cypres. This went away gradually as the cypres became more accepted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #19 February 3, 2005 QuoteADD...?? Well, this alone answers my question... For some reason I had "Automatic Deployment Devise" bouncing around in my head... They have been called many things over the years. ADD: Automatic Deployment Device AOD: Automatic Opening Device AAD: Automatic Activation Device If fact I think the military still uses the term AOD."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
