JohnMitchell 14 #26 May 6, 2016 They beat the hell out of no helmet at all, every time. I fractured a bicycle helmet instead of my skull. I was really glad to be wearing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #27 May 6, 2016 Me too. I broke a cheap hockey helmet on a DC3 door. No frap hats for me. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #28 May 6, 2016 wmw999 Me too. I broke a cheap hockey helmet on a DC3 door. No frap hats for me. I wore a frap hat for many years. Used to be considered de rigueur for tandem masters. This, of course, was in the era when few of us had AADs, even on the tandem rigs. I was one of the first to start wearing a hard helmet for tandems. Glad to see many more do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #29 May 6, 2016 Specifically addressing motorcycle helmets: back during the 1970s lots of skydivers wore certified, fibreglas, open-face, motorcycle helmets made by Bell. Over the years motorcycle helmets evolved to provide better energy absorption. Better energy absorption came at a cost: more bulk. Modern full-face motorcycle helmets are too thick to turn your head between risers: avoiding traffic under canopy, etc. Fortunately, there is a new generation of "retro" motorcycle helmets that look as thin as 1970s-vintage motorcycle helmets. Will check out a motorcycle dealer that sells "retro" helmets as soon as the spring rush is over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #30 May 6, 2016 Addressing the protection offered by popular skydiving helmets .... 8 years ago I survived a King Air crash. Helmets ranged from my PRoTec, to freefly helmets, to a leather frappe hat to no helmets on students. All the staff members suffered concussions. While wearing a PRoTec, I suffered a concussion, broken nose and needed 9 stitches to close a gash in my forehead. Both the other TIs (wearing freefly helmets) suffered concussions. One TI suffered short-term memory loss for a week after the accident, though he eventually recovered most of his mental faculties. The only guy wearing a leather frappe hat suffered life-altering brain injuries. His corpus collosum (sp? the part connecting his two brain hemispheres was severed). Doctors kept him in a chemical coma for a month. He has slowly recovered to the point that he can ride a motorcycle, but will never be half the man he used to be. We all suffered long-term anger, frustration, depression, unemployment and PTSD. If had to repeat the crash, I would wear a seat-belt and install an Oregon Aero liner in a hard-shelled helmet similar to a PRoTec. As for why we were not wearing seat-belts ???????? ........ the accursed lawyers are still arguing that question 8 years after the crash. Lawsuits have caused more financial damage and more emotional damage than the airplane crash. Go figure ...... I share this bloody experience in hopes that young skydivers can learn from my mistakes .... without the scar tissue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #31 May 6, 2016 Quote...in Australia the following all have and must pass a safety standard in order to be able to be sold to the public. skateboard helmets snow sport helmets motorcycling helmets now I gather helmet is not going to save my head in the unlikely event of no opening and impact (der i hear you say) when looking at skydiving helmets i see that having nothing to absorb the energy from an impact and ... It's about risk mitigation. In sports where helmets must be designed to that standard you spend 100% of the activity at risk of hitting your head on an object relative to which you're moving at a high speed. On a skydive that instance only occurs when skydivers are moving quickly relative to each other, quickly through the door, or on landing. The additional bulk simply isn't worth it for most jumping. CRW and BASE are where you'll see people getting back to crash rated helmets because impact with other objects is much more likely and catastrophic."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #32 May 6, 2016 Risk of whacking your head against another skydiver .... Did anyone notice that Bell motorcycle helmets fell out of fashion about the same time 10-Way Speed Stars (small door Beech 18s, etc.) fell out of fashion? Hee! Hee! After Capewells disappeared, even fewer skydivers wore Bell motorcycle helmets ...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #33 May 6, 2016 QuoteRisk of whacking your head against another skydiver .... That would be the "moving quickly relative to other skydivers" part I mentioned. That portion is mitigated by safe practice, keeping jump difficulty relative to skills, trying not to jump with sketchy people."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #34 May 6, 2016 grimmie ... I have seen helmets take a huge impact with the ground. Forces not unlike a motorcycle crash. A helmet offers you a great deal of protection, both in and out of the plane. They have saved many jumpers that have been involved in some serious contact with the earth. In a crash they will offer you FAR greater protection on than off. Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that helmets offered little or no protection. Even an unlined (or "barely lined") CF shell will absorb a fair amount of impact. The ProTecs and Bennys are even better. I had a rough landing wearing a ProTec a while back. As I PLF'd it out, I heard a loud "Thwack" through the helmet. After I got up, I found a pretty good gouge/scratch in the helmet. I looked around and found a good-sized rock sticking an inch or so out of the ground (grass runway). I'm gonna guess that I would have had a fairly serious head injury (skull fracture or worse) without a helmet."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyLikeARaven 0 #35 May 7, 2016 Looks like a lot of us have had similar experiences. I'm still very new, and sometimes my landings have been a little ugly. A few months ago, I unwisely half-assed my landing on a still day, and while I'm a terrible canopy pilot I can nail a PLF like no one's business, but this one...it was bad. I PLFd, but rolled too far and ended up impacting on the back of my head. I looked at my helmet and saw an impact mark that I'm very glad was on my helmet and not on my head. A few hours in the ER (just to be safe) revealed that I only had a neck strain, whiplash, and a mild concussion, but had I not worn the helmet, it could have been much worse. Didn't meet any cute nurses though. :shrug:I'm not a lady, I'm a skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
douwanto 22 #36 May 12, 2016 Im certain wearing your helmet during takeoff and landing is as much about having it contained and therefore not traveling around the aircraft during an emergency situation as head safety. has any of you ever had a water bottle hall into the floorboard and under the peddles while you were driving.. Awkward... Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davenuk 7 #37 May 12, 2016 douwanto has any of you ever had a water bottle hall into the floorboard and under the peddles while you were driving.. Awkward... Goooooo GRAPEFRUIT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #38 May 13, 2016 The crash today at Lodi should reinforce two things. Seat belts and helmets ON! A great job by the pilot also. Nothing like the spinny thing stopping at 1,000 feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #39 May 13, 2016 grimmie The crash today at Lodi should reinforce two things. Seat belts and helmets ON! A great job by the pilot also. Nothing like the spinny thing stopping at 1,000 feet. Got that t-shirt. Never a good thing. Big thanks to all who were buckled in and helmeted, and to the pilot for making the best of a bad situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aschlicht 0 #40 May 14, 2016 If I have a helmet with me it's on my head and secured until around 2,000ft. I figure it's like those idiots you see riding a crotch rocket down the highway with their helmet attached to the motorcycle instead of on their head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #41 May 14, 2016 aschlicht If I have a helmet with me it's on my head and secured until around 2,000ft. Smart. Over the years I've made 4-5 emergency exits out of broken airplanes. It's nice to have your $hit together when it's time to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #42 May 14, 2016 John, I was taught, "Seat belts on, so you survive the crash. Helmet on so you're awake for the fire. Nomex gloves so they can identify your body by the finger prints." Blue Skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #43 May 14, 2016 wolfriverjoe I had a rough landing wearing a ProTec a while back. As I PLF'd it out, I heard a loud "Thwack" through the helmet. After I got up, I found a pretty good gouge/scratch in the helmet. I looked around and found a good-sized rock sticking an inch or so out of the ground (grass runway). That's a great feeling, isn't it, when you wreck a helmet instead of your skull? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 May 16, 2016 JohnMitchellPeople who yell at noobs are jackasses. A quiet, smiling reminder is all that is needed. Thank you, I wonder sometimes if I'm the only one that realizes this. Much like having one or two people that a jumper respects come up to talk to him about something he's done is productive.... 20 random people converging on him upon landing usually makes it worse. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #45 May 16, 2016 I saw a newer jumper doing S-turns on final in the experienced area. Definite no-no. Back in the hangar, I wandered over and started chatting. He's 72, started jumping in 1963 and quit in 1974, the year I started. He's made 30 jumps since starting back up this year, first ever on square canopies. Super cool guy. We chatted a little about how much everything has changed and even talked about hazards in the landing area, like S-turns that no one does anymore. Mission accomplished and a new friend to jump with. You are so right, Remi, no one learns from yelling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical_flyer 0 #46 May 16, 2016 What's wrong with that? I think I got told off once for doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wasatchrider 0 #47 May 16, 2016 you are suppose to fly a pattern downwind, base and finalBASE 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyLikeARaven 0 #48 May 17, 2016 I had a little bit of confusion with this once, too--during AFF it was suggested that if I need to burn off altitude, a few gentle s-turns was the way to do it. I tried it a few months later and it was gently explained to me that while there was no harm (this time) since I knew I was the last one down, not to do that again--it's important to fly a predictable pattern in traffic to avoid collisions and confusing any jumpers behind me. I think the difference in my case was that in the first scenario I was landing in the vast student field and was being watched by an AFFI. I was also alone in the sky at this point. In the second scenario, I was a fun jumper landing in the main field. At any rate, lesson learned. While I do listen when people raise their voices when I make a mistake, the lesson is much better absorbed when people explain things calmly. I've seen many jumpers--new and experienced--turned off by a particularly vocal TI who had a habit of shaming people over the PA system. Some people shut their ears when you raise your voice.I'm not a lady, I'm a skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #49 May 17, 2016 radical_flyer What's wrong with that? I think I got told off once for doing that. They didn't tell you off intelligently, or you wouldn't be having to ask. One of the most dangerous things in our sport is a collision with another canopy at low altitude. Landing areas are busy places, like freeways, with many canopies landing, some faster, some slower, some passing, some being passed. When you make S-turns on final, it's just like weaving across several lanes of traffic on the freeway. Any canopy behind you will now be overtaking you and a collision may result. Make sense? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical_flyer 0 #50 May 17, 2016 Yeah. I'm sure the AFFI explained it to me at the time I just don't remember what he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
