Mattbs4e 0 #1 February 19, 2004 Okay, I’ve always jumped Javelins. I find them sturdy, practical, well designed, and all without a lot of extra tabs and flaps, etc. But, a fellow jumper recently told me that if I ever need to do a quick pull of my reserve, I have to pop my riser tabs before it will come out. (Assuming I hadn’t already pulled my main to pop the tabs). So on my last repack, I pulled my reserve in the loft with the tabs still in and F**K!!!---the bag didn’t come out!! Sure the spring went flying like it’s supposed to, but the bag just remained on my back. Further more, I took off the rig, grabbed the bridal and lifted the rig up by this----still without the bag coming out. I finally popped the tabs and it came out. I’m glad I know about this now, but it seems like it is one more emergency procedure I’d rather have not have complicate a fluid situation. Being that if I ever needed to just pull my reserve, it would probably be during an emergency bail out, a low pull, or after a total malfunction. During neither of which I want to also be fumbling with my riser tabs in order to save my life. I could just picture myself not popping them both at the same time and having some horrible horseshoe with my reserve. So my questions are have Javelins always been this way? Is it only Javelins? Why don’t they warn anyone? And is there a rigging solution to this? (besides using another container). Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zahiv 0 #2 February 19, 2004 sorry for the question but what are riser tabs ? ...And once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return... blue sky Asaf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #3 February 19, 2004 maybe you need some speed to get everything out ?? just supposing, never extracted a reserve...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #4 February 19, 2004 I'm not sure that this is a fair test. Why would the bag come out unless there's some force to extract it? Even lifting the rig by the bridle won't exert that much force (15, 20 pounds? Whatever the weight of the rig is) compared to a nice big pilot chute, even at low airspeeds. I've popped my reserve before a repack, the pilot chute came flying out as expected but the bag stayed put. I didn't think anything of it - but I'm not a rigger! GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #5 February 19, 2004 I think you are sweating it too much. Not only do you have the pull force of the pilot chute while in freefall, but the rig is also on your back, generally tightened up, conforming to your body. Going out on a limb here, but I would be willing to bet that IF this was an issue with Javelins, that EVERYONE in the industry would know and talk about it.......like trying to land a slightly overloaded Dash-M. Make sense????my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #6 February 19, 2004 yes, this is true, but if you lay the rig down flat it comes out very easily. the same thing happens on a vector 3. and what situation are you going to be in a sit or stand and you have to pop your reserve, and once the freebag is out what are the chances of you staying in that same postition . your worrying too much about it, just forget it and think it never happened. there are A SHIT LOAD of javelins out there, and i've never heard of someone having a problem pulling thier reserve . later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #7 February 19, 2004 I have had two cut-away reserve pulls on my javelin. One malfunction was a high speed the other was a slow speed. Everything worked fine. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #8 February 19, 2004 1) The bag will lift clear as the PC pulls at a 90-degree angle easier than lifting the bag at an angle. 2) You want the free bag to stay in the container until the PC pulls it out. Id the bag leaves too soon, the PC could get through the lines, causing a bag lock. 3) The PC will pull the free bag out and open the riser covers, no problem. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdhibberd 0 #9 February 19, 2004 I've had this demonstrated to me on a couple of rigs not just Javelins, pop the reserve then sit on the floor leaving the main riser covers in (smooth floors help) then take the reserve bridle over the top of your shoulder and watch as you can be dragged along the floor with by it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #10 February 19, 2004 QuoteI've had this demonstrated to me on a couple of rigs not just Javelins, pop the reserve then sit on the floor leaving the main riser covers in (smooth floors help) then take the reserve bridle over the top of your shoulder and watch as you can be dragged along the floor with by it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bored riggers can play all sorts of magic tricks on the packing table and "prove" how various rigs "malfunction." Truth is, this is the first time I have heard of this being a problem on a Javelin. Tightening a harness over the shoulders radically changes the geometry of the main riser cover tuck tabs, so does hanging 100 to 200 pounds in the harness.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #11 February 19, 2004 ive had a high speed mal (no main canopy out) and the reserve came out fine. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deurich2003 0 #12 February 19, 2004 My first mal was a total..."monkey fist"...just couldn't extract the pilot chute. Weird situation and in retro I just feel stupid about it. But my point being that I pulled silver and had a beautiful reserve over my head in what seemed like about 1 second. Odyssey J3 with PD160R. It was great!!! Never Give up! Never Surrender! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdhibberd 0 #13 February 19, 2004 Yep, we're pretty much talking bored Rigger/rainy day here, still was interesting to watch if a little hypothetical! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #14 February 19, 2004 I'm alive today so apparently the reserve comes out. I had a total mal about a year ago on my J3. Couldn't get the main PC out at all, so went to silver. Had a beautiful reserve flying over my head about 3 seconds after pulling. Once the reserve PC catches air, it will pull the freebag out, and your risers will force the tabs open. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gulaz 1 #15 February 19, 2004 The same tabs hafta get pulled out when you deploy your main, and that happens everytime... Like others said, the freebag will get extracted by the PC, and if the PC doesnt pull the risers out of the tabs, the inflating reserve will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 February 19, 2004 At least 24 of the TSO tests are done on the reserve with the main compartment full. Who ever told you you must open the riser tuck flaps does not know what they are talking about. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #17 February 19, 2004 I see you are from Santa Cruz. Where do you jump? If you make it up to Byron, I can spend some time with you and address any concerns that you have about your gear. I beleive you have a fine system. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #18 February 19, 2004 I wouldn't be changing your emergency procedures just yet. I can prove to you that your javelin will work as advertised in a reserve only pull. I live in Mountain View so it would be easy enough to get together if you would like.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #19 February 20, 2004 If this was true, I wouldn't be here today. I have had a terminal reserve opening on my Javelin and it worked just fine. (Since I tried to deploy my main at 2K and had a hard pull due to a handle being stuffed into the pouch on climbout, I went straight to the reserve and it opened just fine thank you. - In fact it opened hard enough to yank the wide angle lens right off my camera. I don't think I would have enjoyed a faster deployment. Things work a bit different in the air than they do on the ground.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #20 February 20, 2004 Troll???? Or just watching too many cartoons where the canopy comes flying out and pulls them away??? Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #21 February 20, 2004 QuoteIf this was true, I wouldn't be here today. I have had a terminal reserve opening on my Javelin and it worked just fine. Me too. Everything worked as advertised. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #22 February 20, 2004 QuoteTroll???? Or just watching too many cartoons where the canopy comes flying out and pulls them away??? No, he's not a troll. I know where this took place. Matt has an open invitation to visit to come visit me to clear up any concerns.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #23 February 21, 2004 Obviously, I don't make the Javelin, but I think I can safely say that the riser covers will be instantly opened by a pilot chute that pulls at least 50 lbs.at low speed, and over 100 lbs. at terminal, where you will be if you have a main total. Rigs are not designed to work on a table. They are designed to work while you are rapidly falling toward the earth. You hand deploy pilot chute won't open you main when you throw it on the ground either...will it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattoojeff 0 #24 February 22, 2004 that raises a question for you bill. is there an equation to figure out how many pounds of pull a known size p/c has at a given speed. weight of the jumper shouldnt matter, so it seems like there could be one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #25 February 23, 2004 QuoteAt least 24 of the TSO tests are done on the reserve with the main compartment full. Who ever told you you must open the riser tuck flaps does not know what they are talking about. Sparky Thanks Mike. I was gonna say, if the tabs were a problem the rig would've never been TSO'd, which it obviously has been, or there would be a lot of craters with Javelins in the bottom of them, which there aren't. Did you ever hear the one about the couple that found a bloody hook dangling off their car door handle after an evening on lovers' lane ?? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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