Tension knots

[Olmed 0]

I am new here.

Just wondering..(as a true novice)...tension knots..how to avoid them and can they be avoided every time if the pack job is done well?

[Remster 24]

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can they be avoided every time

You can switch your question about pretty much anything in the sport, and the answer would be no.

Now, does clean packing and proper gear maintenance reduce the chances of getting tension knots? Sure! Can you say that you'll never get them? Nope.

Remster

[Olmed 0]

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can they be avoided every time

You can switch your question about pretty much anything in the sport, and the answer would be no.

Now, does clean packing and proper gear maintenance reduce the chances of getting tension knots? Sure! Can you say that you'll never get them? Nope.

Just what I suspected..

But up front of my AFF course I "fear" more not being able to be stable in free fall and landing too hard. I tell myself to trust the gear and the ability to perform emergency procedure.

I am now going through "The Skydivers Manual" and ordered "Parachute and Its Pilot: The Ultimate Guide for the Ram-Air Aviator". I even put in some extra hours in the gym..

I believe learning as much as possible and listen to those with sound experience would make my jumping safer.

Thanks for the reply

[ufk22 32]

Every time????
No
But PD says that most are caused by line twists in steering lines.
Walking back your steering lines at the end of every day makes the chance of tension knows much lower.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[chuckakers 370]

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But up front of my AFF course I "fear" more not being able to be stable in free fall....

Arch, relax, and trust physics.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[yoink 321]

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Arch, relax, and trust physics.

That should be a T-shirt. Preferably with a beer logo somewhere.

[Skyper 0]

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I am new here.

Just wondering..(as a true novice)...tension knots..how to avoid them and can they be avoided every time if the pack job is done well?

"every time" is hard word in this forum... however you can reduce the chance of packing tension knots by keeping the lines tightly streched during the entire process of packing. don't try to "iron" them by pulling them from the middle and than up. As someone said previously it's also a good idea to untwist the steering lines from time to time.

Relax. You are overthinking the entire skydiving experience. Just relax and listen to you instructor - he'll tell you everything you need to know and don't overload yourslef with that kind of material prior your first jumps.

[Arvoitus 1]

You rarely have to untwist them if you never let go of your toggles after you grab them since they can't get twisted in the first place. You just have to set the toggles back to the risers after you land.

I've got over 400 jumps on my canopy and I've untwisted the steering lines maybe 2 or 3 times(I had let the toggles loose after grabbing them). I've never had twisting on the steering lines.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[Olmed 0]

The reason for my question was a story about a very experienced jumper who got injured after tension knots. Did not have time to pull the reserve though.

Arch, relax and trust physics. I like that.

[OlympiaStoica 0]

Tension knots have caused my cutaway on jump # 200. I stow my brakes imediately after landing, but I'm not dilligent about "walking the (steering) lines" ... lesson learned
O

[JohnRich 4]

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The reason for my question was a story about a very experienced jumper who got injured after tension knots. Did not have time to pull the reserve though.

Your story smells fishy. Tension knots will happen during deployment, and thus, there IS time to pull the reserve if you don't waste a lot of time trying to work them out. The only way you would not have time to pull the reserve would be if you waited too long to make your decision to cut-away. In other words, the cause of death in your story was not tension knots, but an inappropriate response by the jumper - jumper error.

If the tension knots aren't bad, you might be able to land with them. Is the canopy controllable? Can you flare it? If not, get rid of it. Don't be like the "very experienced jumper" in that story, and ride a bad canopy down too low to cut it away.

[craigbey 0]

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You rarely have to untwist them if you never let go of your toggles after you grab them since they can't get twisted in the first place. You just have to set the toggles back to the risers after you land.

I've got over 400 jumps on my canopy and I've untwisted the steering lines maybe 2 or 3 times(I had let the toggles loose after grabbing them). I've never had twisting on the steering lines.

+1

I'm still amazed by the number of experienced jumpers I see walking into the packing area with dangling toggles wrapped up in their lines. It only takes a couple of seconds to push the top of the toggle into the keeper after you land.

[Olmed 0]

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The reason for my question was a story about a very experienced jumper who got injured after tension knots. Did not have time to pull the reserve though.

Your story smells fishy. Tension knots will happen during deployment, and thus, there IS time to pull the reserve if you don't waste a lot of time trying to work them out. The only way you would not have time to pull the reserve would be if you waited too long to make your decision to cut-away. In other words, the cause of death in your story was not tension knots, but an inappropriate response by the jumper - jumper error.

If the tension knots aren't bad, you might be able to land with them. Is the canopy controllable? Can you flare it? If not, get rid of it. Don't be like the "very experienced jumper" in that story, and ride a bad canopy down too low to cut it away.

I just found it inappropriate (especially as a new person in this forum) to start talking about people who barely survived their jump. It was an experienced female jumper from Norway (who also base-jumped) who did a show in Switzerland. I have not read the full story but she got injured pretty bad, broke most of her lower limbs. I just read briefly that her reserve was not opened. If I got the story wrong I apologize for not checking the details before posting something like that. She has today made great progress in her rehab.

I am glad to hear that even tension knots could be worked out either by cut away or in some cases by landing with it.

[Olmed 0]

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I am new here.

Just wondering..(as a true novice)...tension knots..how to avoid them and can they be avoided every time if the pack job is done well?

Relax. You are overthinking the entire skydiving experience. Just relax and listen to you instructor - he'll tell you everything you need to know and don't overload yourslef with that kind of material prior your first jumps.

Think you are on to something.[/;)] At the same time that I want to prepare were I can to improve my performance on jump-day, 4 weeks is an awful long time to go wait for it. Too much time to over think it.

[riggerrob 558]

The best way to avoid tension knots is to pack neatly.
Like Bill Booth says, "you are really packing the lines. If the lines are neat, it is going to open."

The other point - that I wanted to stress - is that line knots should not lead to injury. If you opened your main at a reasonable altitude, then you would have up to a minute to decide whether or not your tension knots are "landable." USPA says (for solo jumpers) to decide above 1,800 feet (600 meters) and cutaway by 1,500 feet (500 metres).
BUT the higher you decide, the better.
I have survived tension knots on several tandem jumps, and I had my reserve open by 4,000 feet!

[JohnRich 4]

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The reason for my question was a story about a very experienced jumper who got injured after tension knots. Did not have time to pull the reserve though.

Your story smells fishy. Tension knots will happen during deployment, and thus, there IS time to pull the reserve if you don't waste a lot of time trying to work them out. The only way you would not have time to pull the reserve would be if you waited too long to make your decision to cut-away. In other words, the cause of death in your story was not tension knots, but an inappropriate response by the jumper - jumper error.

If the tension knots aren't bad, you might be able to land with them. Is the canopy controllable? Can you flare it? If not, get rid of it. Don't be like the "very experienced jumper" in that story, and ride a bad canopy down too low to cut it away.

I just found it inappropriate (especially as a new person in this forum) to start talking about people who barely survived their jump. It was an experienced female jumper from Norway (who also base-jumped) who did a show in Switzerland. I have not read the full story but she got injured pretty bad, broke most of her lower limbs. I just read briefly that her reserve was not opened. If I got the story wrong I apologize for not checking the details before posting something like that. She has today made great progress in her rehab.

I am glad to hear that even tension knots could be worked out either by cut away or in some cases by landing with it.

Ah, the "BASE" comment may explain the fishy smell I detected. I presumed you were talking about a normal skydive. On a BASE jump, because of the low altitude, line twists are indeed very deadly. There isn't time to do anything about them, like one would have a regular skydive. And usually no time to use a reserve either, if the jumper even carries one. However, none of that applies on a normal skydive, as there should be plenty of time and altitude to take corrective action.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Tension knots have caused my cutaway on jump # 200. I stow my brakes imediately after landing, but I'm not dilligent about "walking the (steering) lines" ... lesson learned

IMHO, tension knots are more common on worn, fuzzy lines than slick new ones. The "frictionier" lines are more likely to catch on each other. Jumping an assortment of tandem mains made me form that opinion.

BTW, of course most of us train to pump the brakes twice with low speed partial malfunctions in an effort to clear them. I had some tension knots once that would not clear after two good pumps. From full stall, I literally let go of the toggles to grab the pillows. That release of pressure on the main cleared the knots. Sweet. I then told my braced passenger "Uh, never mind."

[riggerrob 558]

That technique is taught to Strong Tandem Instructors, but I would not recommend it to anyone with less than a few hundred jumps.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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That technique is taught to Strong Tandem Instructors, but I would not recommend it to anyone with less than a few hundred jumps.

The "two pumps on the toggles" or "letting go of the brakes from full flare"?

[riggerrob 558]

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That technique is taught to Strong Tandem Instructors, but I would not recommend it to anyone with less than a few hundred jumps.

The "two pumps on the toggles" or "letting go of the brakes from full flare"?

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A bit of both ... but I prefer to pull it into a deep stall, then keep both hands on the toggles while rapidly returning them to the keepers. As the canopy dives forward, the lines go slack, and MOST tension knots fall out.
If slack does not relieve tension knots - on the second try - I remind the student to arch again, toss the second drogue release handle, peel the cutaway handle and watch my left thumb slide in to the reserve ripcord handle ...

[PiLFy 0]

There you go again. Teaching us Newbs something useful. Damned old timers...

Before I commit this technique to memory. I've a stupid question. This technique doesn't just work w/huge tandem lines, right? It'll work on a regular chute w/dacron & spectra, too?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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There you go again. Teaching us Newbs something useful. Damned old timers...

Before I commit this technique to memory. I've a stupid question. This technique doesn't just work w/huge tandem lines, right? It'll work on a regular chute w/dacron & spectra, too?

It should. The principle is the same. Your mileage may vary.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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toss the second drogue release handle, peel the cutaway handle and watch my left thumb slide in to the reserve ripcord handle ...

Thanks for the clarification. I'll add it to my intentional repetoire.
BTW, as a Sigma jumper, I have to ask. What is this drogue release handle you're throwing away?

[PiLFy 0]

OK, Thanks John.

[Abedy 0]

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BTW, as a Sigma jumper, I have to ask. What is this drogue release handle you're throwing away?

And once again the Sigma Snobs look down on the Vector-style colonials
BTW: In Germany, the second drogue release of Vector-style tandem rigs is routed through the cutaway handle in case a T/I forgets to pull the 2nd release before cutting away. However, everyone is taught to stick to the sequence and not to have a shortcut here that might contribute to a hardpull...

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

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