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Showing results for 'SABRE2 VS CROSSFIRE2'.
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This has been discussed numerous times on dz.com. Using the search function resulted in the following for your review: https://www.dropzone.com/search/?q=SABRE2 VS CROSSFIRE2&quick=1
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Hello, I would like some feedback on the differences between the Sabre2 and CrossFire2 canopies. At equivalent size what are the differences? My wingloading for XFire2 109=1.67 and for Sabre2 107=1.70 I have 1400 jumps, my number of jumps per year is decreasing now only 50 jumps per year. I have 700 jumps on the XFire2 109 I intend to change my CrossFire2 109 for a Sabre2 107, what should I expect for the opening, landing, behavior? Thanks
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getting into swooping - crossfire2 characteristic
skow replied to honest.py's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
A Sabre2 or Crossfire3 would be a good option. They both should be better for learning to swoop. Katana may also be a good next canopy, but after short recovery arc of both Safire2 and Crossfire2 it may surprise you, so be careful! And before all, good coaching is always a good idea! -
Skylark odyssey compared to same sized sabre2
Joellercoaster replied to Sabrekakkonen's topic in Gear and Rigging
I would agree totally with Degeneration - I've jumped Odyssey 120, Crossfire2 119 and they are very similar - snappy turns, steep dives, quite a lot of oversteer, fair amount of care and feeding required on opening. Generally a hoot to fly at that loading (1.9ish) but can absolutely bite. A Sabre2 120 is a totally different beast... easier to fly straight and deal with on opening, slower to roll into and out of turns (though my swoopy friends claim they swoop really well, I couldn't really comment). Disclaimer: PD do not recommend loading them as high as I did, and indeed most of my jumps are on 135s at 1.7+. Very much a matter of taste? [edit: you asked about flatness of glide, I'd say the Odyssey flies flatter in a straight line. But once you start turning and diving, all bets are probably off.] -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? -
Skylark odyssey compared to same sized sabre2
degeneration replied to Sabrekakkonen's topic in Gear and Rigging
Yes, but not in the same size. Odyssey I've flown 120, 105 and 100 Sabre2 only in 135. And I didn't fly them close to each other time wise. But from what I recall of the Sabre2, which i didn't jump that much, it was less snappy in turns, and generally more docile and less high performance feeling. that could all be down to the size difference, lack of paying that much attention at the time, my comparative lower experience when I was on the Sabre2, and only jumping it for a handful of jumps. Odyssey, however, is my favourite canopy so far. It being more comparable to a crossfire2, but a little better. Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic). -
I don't think anyone has addressed this in the thread yet so I'll have a go. The word "elliptical" is certainly a marketing term, so you should take it (and literally anything else you read in a canopy blurb that's not a technical spec or a hard jump number recommendation or a max weight) with a huge grain of salt. But! It does have some use as a term used by skydivers to classify canopies, so I'll have a go. Ram air canopies started off rectangular - and some of them still are: Navigator, Silhouette, Triathlon are all still made and still popular. Some people (including me sometimes) still jump the original Sabre, though it's not made any more. Colloquially, we call these "square". Then manufacturers discovered that if you tapered the ends, they would turn faster (and thus dive harder) and fly more efficiently, and maybe quicker through the air due to reduced drag. This is the "high performance" part of ellipticality. When tapered in a small way, this contributes mostly only good things to an otherwise square canopy - snappier turns, better glide and possibly flare (although it tends to make openings a little more wandery). Some manufacturers refer to these as "lightly elliptical" or "semi-elliptical", and they include wildly popular canopies such as the Sabre2, Pilot, Safire2/3, S-Fire, Spectre and many others. Confusingly, some manufacturers refer to things in this class as "elliptical" or even "fully elliptical", though it's not common. Tapering beyong this point keeps upping the performance factor in terms of speed and roll and agility, but now you are starting to pay for it. Quick to roll and dive can mean quick to get into trouble - and highly tapered canopies have a tendency to oversteer and/or stay diving once you stop pulling things. If you get cut off in the pattern under your aggressively tapered Mamba, you need to have your reflexes under control and not yank on a toggle to evade, or you might find yourself in a bad place you're too low to get out of again. They are also definitely more prone to bad behaviour on opening! Popular canopies in this class include the Stiletto, Mamba, Zulu, Crossfire2/3, Katana and X-Fire. This is what people generally mean when they say "fully elliptical", or simply "elliptical" for short. There are lots of different shapes in this class, but they all have a noticeable taper on one or both edges. NOTE: Some places have hard jump number requirements attached to canopies in this group, and for strong reasons. (All modern cross-braced canopies are, of course, fully elliptical. But those are a whole 'nother thing.) There is a lot of subtlety I'm missing out here - the models in my groups don't all fly alike and there are plenty or other factors involved, like steepness of trim, reliability of opening and recovery arc, that differentiate them. But, I hope this has answered your question about the word and how it's generally used, a little more directly. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?
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Here are my observations from flying a demo X-Fire 124 for two weekends. I don't have much experience flying different canopies, so instead of giving general characteristics, I'll stick to comparing it to my current canopy, a Crossfire2 129. I am just getting into swooping, and that's what I was mainly evaluating it for. This seems to be a common situation for people, so I hope this comparison will be of some use. I have an exit weight of 195lbs and the wing-loadings of the cf2 and xf are similar: ~1.51 and ~1.57lbs/sqft respectively. I only made 19 jumps on the X-Fire. The openings were quite different from other canopies I've flown (crossfire2, safire2s, sabre2). For the first few jumps I was opening at 10kft (and density altitude of ~14kft), at terminal, and they were a little sharp (FlySight data shows peaks of about 3g, but I am not sure it can be trusted). Not uncomfortably sharp, but close. I started to split roll the nose, and that helped a lot. If all openings are like this I would be happy, but I am slightly worried that any outliers (say, 50% faster) will be painful. Out of 19 openings, 16 were head-on (within, say, 30˚), one did a 90˚ turn, one did a 360˚ turn, and one did a 360˚ with line twists. The last one has two and a half twists, and it did not dive. That's not much data, but it looks good to me. I think my cf2 has a similar rate of >180˚ turns, and body position could be part of the reason. The brakes are stowed very shallowly, so popping one toggle doesn't have much of an effect. This is also apparent from the FlySight descent rate data: 12-13mph with brakes stowed, and 13-14mph with brakes unstowed. Compare with 7-8mph with brakes stowed and 12-13mph with brakes unstowed on my cf2. The canopy is overall more responsive to input than my cf2. For toggles and rears the difference is small, but for harness and front risers it is significant. The range of the toggles (from start of tail deflection to stall) is shorter, and they are heavier. Similarly, it stalls on rears with less input. I noticed some over-steer for front riser and harness turns, but not much (the cf2 doesn't over-steer at all, as far as I can tell). The toggles are a little bit twitchier, I needed to pay some attention to flare symmetrically. The front risers are heavier than the cf2. Once it enters a dive it is much easier to keep it diving by maintaining harness input. I can keep it in a turn indefinitely, while on my cf2 I can not even get a consistent 270 because it starts to recover unless I get it just right. However, once the input is released it seems to recover in a way similar to the cf2. With enough speed the cf2 recovers to flying completely level. The xf seems to take longer to recover, but at least on one occasion I see it go to a descent rate of just 3mph, and I suspect that with more speed it might go level too. I wish I had more time to test, as that was the part I was most interested in. In short, the recovery arc seems longer, but similar to that of the cf2. In a 90˚ turn, executed in a similar way I lose 380ft on my cf2 and ~450-480ft on the xf. But it's hard to compare because I didn't have time to make my turns consistent enough. It feels like there is more power in the flare than the cf2. The glide, thankfully, is nothing like a katana. It is perhaps a little steeper in full flight than my cf2, but not by much. It felt stable and steerable in deep brakes. All in all, I was happy with the canopy and I definitely like it better than my cf2 for my use (starting to swoop). I wish I could also compare it to the Crossfire3 and the Tesla.
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Until about jump 70 many different canopies renting (i don't remember jump numbers per canopy, but not that many), while I had a 120 Kg exit weigth: Navigator 280, 260, 240, 220 Silhouete 210, 190 Pulse 210, 190 After that (my Main canopies): Sabre1 190, about 80 jumps @120 Kg Exit Weigth Sabre2 170, about 450 jumps @120 Kg Exit Weigth Crossfire 139, about 400 jumps @120 Kg Exit Weigth, aftar that I lost about 22 Kg and did another 200 jumps JVX-119, about 200 jumps @98 Kg Exit Weigth About to order a JVX 96 (i'm putting another 100-150 jumps on my 119 until it's ready) Did several jumps on other canopies too (but usualy 1-4 jumps max, borrowing): Optimum 176 (mounting as a main parachute) Katana 150 Katana 135 Stileto 135 Zulu 132 Velocity 103 Velocity 96 JFX 99 I've always been a decent canopy pilot, did a lot of coaching and started doing HP landings on my 170 early on. But I don't recomend my downsizing, especialy the one frome the Sabre2 170 (WL 1,4ish) to a Crossfire2 139 (WL 1,8ish).
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When I downsized to the crossfire2 I immediately noticed how much faster the fronts loaded up. It had a much shallower glide as well. It took me a good 40 jumps to get my brain to allow me to crank a 180 at 400 feet. Even now, if I watch someone do a perfect 180 on a crossfire2 it looks stupid low. The sabre2 felt more ground hungry, but wasn't as strict, for me. If my set up and turn weren't just right, I could always muscle it into holding a dive a bit longer. The crossfire 2 just loads up and recovers positively. I hated that thing. I haven't flown a Katana. I was told by a few experienced pilots that it might be exactly what I was looking for. Then I noticed that the people with CP metals kept telling me to get a crossfire2. Haha. In regards to ultra high performance, I'm assuming they meant "ultra high performance, non-cross braced". So it flies more like a cross braced wing? The sabre2 and crossfire2 both feel responsive enough with fronts and harness, but when you give full input, it just loads up and tries to recover. They "act" like there is a lot of power waiting for you to use, but there isn't. All bark and no bite. Zippy at first, but safer because they'll load up and recover. Possibly harder to get into trouble with? The crossfire2 recovery arc was always felt like hitting a wall. I just couldn't get more out of it. It was an unbreakable law. Once you feel it start loading up, theres no stopping it. Even snapping it around won't help it. On the other hand, you can keep the x-fire diving. The X-fire feels quiet in the harness, but if you reef on it it'll build power and speed for A LOT longer before trying to recover. All bite and no bark. Feels like a no stress wing, care free opening, but when you want it to dive and keep diving, it will. Probably easier to find yourself in the corner. If you build more power, it'll take longer to recover... unlike the crossfire2. Please don't share this video. I'll leave it up for a few days if anyone wants to watch. https://vimeo.com/217050938 Most turns are full harness w/ some front pressure. I kept airspeed up so the wing was flying pretty rigid. Still pretty playful even when its trying to load up. The 540 after opening was going to be a 270, but I decided to keep it going. You'll see the hesitation in my POV. I could barely get a crossfire2 around before it would load up, let alone with any hesitation. The last 360 in the cloud that I depressurized for is all harness with some front right pressure. Comes around easy and would have loved to keep diving.
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How aggressively did you down size?
Shivinski replied to Nerra's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
Jumps | Canopy | Wing Loading 0-21 | Student 260-240 | 0.85 22-45 | Safire2 189-149 | 1.05 46-90 | Spectre 170 | 1.05 91-134 | ZP.Exe 150 | 1.15 135-240 | Sabre2 135 | 1.35 241-300 | Stiletto 120 | 1.5 301-590 | Crossfire2 104 | 1.65 591-850 | Katana 97 | 1.85 850+ | Comp Velocity 84 | 2.15 The biggest and scariest jump by far was between the Crossfire and Katana, 7sq/ft but a completely different beast the Katana is much more like my Comp Velo now than anything else. Started induced speed landings at around 150 jumps (straight in's then onto 90's). First 270 was on the Crossfire at around 340 jumps. Since then most landings where the airspace is clear have been 270s. -
If you could find a 119 x-fire, you'd enjoy going to it from a sabre2 120. Sabre2 135 to crossfire2 119 was good and bad for me. I liked the rears, but it was trimmed too flat, coming from the sabre2. The recovery arc was dramatically shorter than the sabre2. The crossfire 2 was strict, in that it had a very narrow altitude window in which to initiate your turn. It just loaded up so fast, so it was hard to prolong your turn. I could force the sabre2 to keep diving if I needed to, which was nice. The crossfire2 would recover positively if I really wound it up. Really f*$king annoying. The X-fire is my first wing that gives me everything I want. It's not intimidating, but should be respected. On a 119 @ 1.8 it has power, but I still had to give full input. However, it does demand smooth controlled inputs. If you tug a front too quick, the wing will respond and snap in that direction faster than it can translate through your lines and to you. It felt like an extension of my body within 3 jumps, but I've still kept my turns high, looking for more power to keep it diving... just so I don't accidentally find it later on. To whoever said "how can it be a transitional canopy if its in its own class" or however they worded it, I believe they were aiming to make a stepping stone to cross braced wings. I'll let you know when I get on a cross braced.
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Well, I'm not sure how accurate Aerodyne's formula for "Planform Factor" is when used to determine canopy handling characteristics, but they advertise the PF of the Zulu at 10.0, so you can see where it fits on this matrix of other known canopies. Pf N Springo 110 28.0 8 cells tapered Crossfire2 21.6 8 cells tapered Safire2 16.4 8 cells tapered Vision 124 15.5 6 cells tapered Stiletto 120 13.3 4 cells tapered Diablo 120 10.7 4 cells tapered Electra 150 9.5 4 cells tapered Pilot 124 6.7 4 cells tapered Sabre2 120 5.4 6 cells tapered This would be the Zulu 172, loaded at 1.4...
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So now for my 20 cents ... visor: as you use a G3.. my experience is that it is not unusual for this helmet to fog the visor. I removed all liners in the front/mouth area, still foggy in cold/humid conditions. even anti-fog spray doesn´t make any spectacular changes (maybe I should use the alcohol advice for cleaning, I just used alcohol in a different way ..) my solution is to open it up during linestretch (Crossfire2) or right after checking the airspace before doing something else... but I suppose on a ride like this, you think about everything else than just to open the visor .. canopy: you fly the Skylark one? "Odyssey – modern 9-cell fully eliptical high performance canopy. Recommended only for experienced canopy pilots!" So much for the thoughts what happens with swing/shifting weight in harness, symmetry, .. Saw your cutaway with the Sabre2, similar twist but more forgiving .. RSL: can´t provide any input here, except that I only know it with the tab towards the jumper, not towards the riser.. again something new to learn and take care of .. the canopy ride (my pov): If I would pitch at 1000 meters, the opening wouldn´t be finished at 800 meters. but I fly a Crossie .. 0:25 > symmetrical risers, no tension knots visible 0:30 > twists in right steering line visible 0:31 > on the left side also why important? twists in steeringlines contribute to tension knots solution: untwist them 0:31 > you grab both risers on the left side (not only the rears) 0:34 > pull the right rear, not both .. 0:36 > release of right toggle speeds up rotation you stated to know most of those issues, that´s the good part. improvement: review your packing method may help. seeing that linetwists are not uncommon to you, keep in mind that a highperformance elliptical puts you faster into trouble. untwist your steering lines after every jump if neccessary. take a canopy course if you didn´t have it already, focus on flying HP canopies (not focus on landings only ..) practice riserturns on hop-n-pops to get familiar with that on the Odyssey (should come with the canopy course). try everything to ensure the visor to be not foggy again talk to an experienced rigger about that RSL issue, might save your life. pitch higher. get toggles in contrasting color. Note: this is my personal view and not the ultimate wisdom. maybe I saw something wrong due to the quality of the youtubevid or to the lack of coffee .. glad you survived and good that you be so open to discuss. I guess at round 800 jumps, I wouldn´t have done that because I was the best in the world those days ... and immortal of course ... -------------------------------------------------- With sufficient thrust, pigs just fly well
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swooping, sabre2's and progression
Pendragon replied to roam82's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
Hopefully the following points might help. Don't go for a Stiletto. They're trimmed to be responsive on toggles, but they have a short recovery arc. There are better canopies to perform high performance landings on. Something elliptical for swooping, like a Katana, Crossfire2 etc needs to be loaded at least 1.6 lbs/sq ft to get any real benefit out of it above a semi-elliptical canopy such as a Sabre2 or Safire2. 1.8 is a good place to be on a canopy like that. Higher and you need to be going crossbraced. Lower and you won't get the benefit. Better to work up to a higher loading on a Sabre2 and make the transfer onto the crossfire when you've got more experience. FWIW, I wingsuit with a Safire2 129 @ 1.6. I get the good openings I need and it still swoops very nicely (270s and using my rears). -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 -
Guys, need some infos from someone who has tried this. Going to downsize to a Crossfire2 139 and am curious if it will fit in my Icon I5 or be too small. I have jumped a pilot 168 ZPX, which is a fair fit, Sabre2 150 (which packs a bit bigger than the Pilot) and was wondering about the pack volume of a Crossfire2 139 compared to the Sabre2 150. Has anyone tried and can tell me if it's an OK fit, loose fit (which it should be) or a too loose fit? Thx D
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How aggressively did you down size?
Shivinski replied to Nerra's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
1-3: Skymaster 260 (0.67) 4-15: Skymaster 240 (0.73) 16-29: Skymaster 230 (0.76) 30-35: Safire 209 (0.86) 36-45: Safire 189 (0.96) 45-93: Spectre 170 (1.08) 94-134: Zp.exe 155 (1.18) 135-350: Sabre2 135 (1.33) 351-399: Stiletto 120 (1.47) 400-Now: Crossfire2 104 (1.70) I've been doing induced speed landings since ~jump 150. Started with 90s, then 180s and now working on my 270s. It's been conservative at times, and less so at others, but I'm currently happy and confident in what I fly. -
How aggressively did you down size?
YvonneWiggers replied to Nerra's topic in Swooping and Canopy Control
I am a bit of a lightweight at 57kg, about 150lbs out the door. My progression so far: 1-40: 235 down to a 185 student canopy. 40-90: Sabre 170 at 0.9 90-140: Silhouette/Sabre/Sabre2 150 at 1.0 140-350: Sabre/Sabre2 135 at 1.1 350-650: Sabre2 120 at 1.25 650- now: Crossfire2 109 at a bit less than 1.4 According to the Dutch canopy rules my downsizing is (way) too aggressive, which I don't agree with. This is partially because those rules restrict mostly on sizes and not so much on wingload, it is also not that common here to do more than 200 jumps a year (as I do). "So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!... It's PINK!!!'" - army guy after his first staticline jump -
Personally i would stick with your Sabre2 for now, maybe get a smaller one in the near future. It's amazing what you'll learn skills wise by staying under the same canopy. Patience pays off. In addition i've Jumped Crossfire2's for 10 years and yes, i think they are awesome but with that said they also perform at their best when well loaded and from personal experience 1.8-2.1 IMO was the sweet spot. As a experiment maybe demo a 149XF2 for 20 or so jumps. .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.
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it's not really the best choice if you want to go down the swooping path... short recovery arc and all... probably better off trying a Crossfire2 or Nitron if you're looking for a performance increase from a Sabre2 without going completely bonkers NSCR-2376, SCR-15080
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This I think will surprise some, piss some off, and make others wonder if it’s true. So let me start with yes it’s true or at least my perception of the truth. I think there is a bias; that bias is that a crossbraced canopy should only be jumped by swoop gods and the rest of the common folk should just disregard the facts. So here are a few facts (perceptions) as I see them. I jump a Space 130 loaded at about a 1.5, I have a lot of jumps on this canopy (at lest to me) over 500 and really like it. I need to replace it so I was looking for a Cobalt 135 basically the same canopy. The Space/Cobalt opens great, fly’s great, feels very solid and has a tremendous amount of flare on bottom end. So what else have I jumped? Ok a Cobalt, Stiletto, Sabre2, Crossfire and Crossfire2, Nitro, Jonathon, Jedi, Hornet, and Heatwave, to name a few. I think the Space up to this point was the best canopy I’ve jumped. I am by no means a professional canopy pilot, nor even a great canopy flyer. I just enjoy my weekend jumps and have fun doing them. I do not swoop nor do I intend to swoop, I do sometimes fly a carving 90 degree turn but most often just fly straight in. So I saw an ad for a Xaos-21 135 and figured everything I heard about this canopy was good, especially the openings. The canopy was reasonable so I thought what the heck let’s give it a try. The results are as follows. Space 130 loaded at about 1.5 Vs. Xaos-21 135 loaded at about the same. First the Space turns faster and dives harder in a hard toggle turn. The Xaos turns a little slower and doesn’t dive as hard initially, The Space will recover and even flare some on its own, the Chaos doesn’t seem to want to do that, it stays in a steep decent not really a dive but a negative recovery. Bottom end on both canopies is great, but the Xaos has the Space and every other canopy I’ve jumped beat all to hell. I think this is the biggest difference between a crossbraced canopy and a typical 9 cell. Both seem to fly at about the same speed. On flare the distortion of the Xaos is much less than the Space so it stands to reason that there would be a more powerful flare. It also stands to reason that you could load the canopy a lot higher. The openings on both canopies are great, but I must confess the Xaos opens great better than I thought it would. I was surprised at how nice the openings were. So the Xoas all in all proved to be the better canopy for me, openings were great, flare was awesome, the rest was very similar to a Space/Cobalt. I will finish with this the Xaos vs. Space was very close, I felt like the Space at this wing loading felt a little more aggressive the the Xaos. I feel certain that at higher wing loadings that would change but at a 1.5 the Space seemed more responsive. This Xaos has been flown at a 1.4 wing loading a 1.5 wing loading and a 1.6 wing loading. I don’t know about before I got it. With all of that said I don’t see any reason why someone flying an elliptical canopy at these wing loading should fear flying a Xaos-21 I think for the most part they would be surprised that It doesn’t seem as aggressive as many canopies. The Stiletto turns much faster in my opinion. The cons of going to a crossbraced over a 9 cell elliptical? Well the crossbraced canopy packs bigger, it also cost more new, you will probably have to change the lines a little more frequent and you will have to put up with all the naysayers telling you, you shouldn’t be on the canopy. Is it ok to fly a Xaos at a 1.4 or 1.5 wing loading? Well according to Precision Aerodynamics it is, I don’t have a problem taking their word for it. Can they be landed straight in with out a speed increasing turn? Most definitely without any problem at all, in fact they still have more flare then any traditional 9 cell I’ve jumped. The pros of going to a crossbraced canopy, you may find one like I did cheaper than a non-crossbraced of similar performance. You will get more flare power out of the same size canopy, and it will start the flare much quicker with a small toggle bump. So all in all no reason not to go with a Xaos in lieu of a 9 cell elliptical canopy at a moderate wing loading. If you can find one rasonable and don’t mind the larger pack volume. So I know we will hear from some nay sayers however I think if you call Precision Aerodynamics you’ll hear the same thing I’m saying. Ok so in closing I’m not telling anyone to go buy and load up a crossbraced canopy. I’m also not talking about any crossbraced other than the Xaos-21. I/m also talking about if you jump an elliptical at a 1.5 wing loading you won’t find a lot of difference between the two. A 120 sq. ft. canopy fly’s about the same speed at the same wing loading, not matter if it’s a 7 cell, 9 cell or crossbraced. Honestly I wonder why a lot more people don’t fly them; they have more flare and bottom end then most canopies and are not any more aggressive than most ellipticals in normal flight. So let’s have some discussion on this subject, I’m very curious what others think. Oh for the profile lookers, mine hasn’t been updated since 2006 you can check with the mods on that if you are so compelled.
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The only sensible response to this type of question is go an d fly them. Nobody can tell you what you will prefer. If you're ready for a 150, then fly a bunch of them - Safire2, Sabre2, Pilot, Storm, Spectre etc, etc and see what you want. If you know the flight characteristics you want then narrow the list down a bit. These "which is a better canopy" threads are essentially pointless. I really didn't like the Crossfire2, but loved the Katana - but many people would disagree with me. Each to their own. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA
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Pilot 140 to Crossfire 139 or 129?
Joellercoaster replied to sebinoslo's topic in Safety and Training
I would do the same - just get a slightly smaller Pilot. I've gotten a bit heavier lately and am now loading my Pilot at about 1.8; it's gotten a little bit fussy landing straight-in though it's still good with front riser approaches But, below 1.7, smaller Pilots were great fun each time. I've had my current one for about 400 jumps. I'm experimenting with a borrowed Sabre2 and a Crossfire2, both the same size(ish) as my Pilot, and will see how that goes. I suspect the Crossfire will win out on fun factor though -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? -
Yes, I'm not looking for advice on just getting any one particular canopy. I am looking for advice on which several different canopies may be suitable. At this point I've gotten what I came for, through a combination of helpful responses and helpful PMs. I have a line on a Stiletto 135 that I will be flying in a couple of weeks. If all checks out then I will make an offer on the rig. Stiletto/Viper ellipticals are what most of my jumps were on, and the 135 is two sizes larger than what I used to jump. I will also fly it fairly conservatively. Once I get more recurrent I will explore other options - Sabre2, Crossfire2, Katana, maybe Velo. I'll ease myself into it. NOW, the rig I will be flying in a couple of weeks doesn't have an AAD. So clearly someone needs to come along and tell me that I'm waaaaayyy too uncurrent to be jumping without an AAD. Lol. Flame on. Marc A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.
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Marc I really think anyone telling you to "get canopy x" is doing you a disservice. You know that you're going to have to ease back into the smaller sizes, and that's what you are doing. Once you are back at the 135/120 point I suggest that you demo a bunch of different canopies to decide what YOU like. It seems to me that one of the keys to your point is an interest in knowing what the newer canopy designs are like and therefore you should have a list to try not a single model recommended to you. Here's a start on the list: Pilot Safire2 Sabre2 Stiletto Crossfire2 Katana I take Fast's point about your potential currency being a little low for the last two, but I don't think they necessarily have to be a problem. Canopies don't kill people, pilots do. The statistics prove that. There are certainly more models out there that you could try but the above list is a good starting point depending on what you want. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA
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You may consider this semantics, too, but I don't necessarily think you should view the Stiletto as old technology, but rather as a canopy designed and built for the flying style of the time. Swooping techniques have moved on a lot and the most recent swooping canopies (Comp Velo, Katana, Peregrine, for example) reflect the change in what modern Canopy Pilots want (mainly a steep trimmed, diving canopy which has plenty of range on the rears). That said, if you're not going to fly that way then maybe you will prefer to stick with the Stiletto - plenty of people do still fly and love them. If you want to try to get into the more modern way of flying a canopy for HP landings, may I suggest that you start off with a Sabre2 and build currency loading it up to say 1.5 then go to a Katana or Crossfire2 if you want something that is the next step up the performance ladder. Be aware that these canopies will dive much more than your Stilettos and initiation altitudes will need to go up quite a bit. Finally, some coaching on new techniques would be valuable. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA
