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anyone's got a spare 50$ for our friend Sangi!?
normiss replied to virgin-burner's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
Glassing over the root cause serves no purpose. While the incident forum is clearly not the place to identify fault it seems, we should NOT forget that in an effort that others may learn from Sangi's mistakes and refusal to listen to experience. Sorry if you don't see it that way. At dz's I'm familiar with - he would have received MANY "bowling ball" speeches. I also agree with Spence, there had to be a bounce bingo game on him. I've often wondered if it would help those following the path to injury or death would have a different perspective if they knew there was money on them injuring themselves. Probably not. (and no, I don't seriously believe there was, in fact, an actual bet on someone getting injured) -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
wolfriverjoe replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
I've been thinking about this point, and it's interesting, but in the end I have to admit I don't buy it. These guys (and they are all guys) aren't really unafraid of death. Not even Sangi, who claimed he's not scared of death. They just really do genuinely believe it won't happen to them. It's hard to be frightened of something that just happens to other people, maybe people less talented or quick on the draw. People they don't even know - guys on the internet, people who died or maimed themselves in some abstract other place. A lot of them don't even know what death or horrible injury is, not in a real way. I fear changing the message it to "horrific injury" won't change the end result. The trick is not describing consequences they're going to be scared of, it's somehow convincing them that they're not immune in the first place. This is a lot of what I meant. These types may claim that they aren't afraid of death, but it's really that they don't believe it will happen to them. Others perhaps, but not them. It's well known in flying, fast cars and motorcycles (and in skydiving of course). You see a lot of this type quit after an injury, a close call, or seeing someone near them get hurt or killed. A few of them will actually admit that while they thought they understood the risks, it took that close call or injury or whatever to pound home how dangerous what they were doing was. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
Joellercoaster replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
I've been thinking about this point, and it's interesting, but in the end I have to admit I don't buy it. These guys (and they are all guys) aren't really unafraid of death. Not even Sangi, who claimed he's not scared of death. They just really do genuinely believe it won't happen to them. It's hard to be frightened of something that just happens to other people, maybe people less talented or quick on the draw. People they don't even know - guys on the internet, people who died or maimed themselves in some abstract other place. A lot of them don't even know what death or horrible injury is, not in a real way. I fear changing the message it to "horrific injury" won't change the end result. The trick is not describing consequences they're going to be scared of, it's somehow convincing them that they're not immune in the first place. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
Baksteen replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
While CReW definitely focuses on the finer points of canopy control, the landings are not much emphasised. And let's not kid ourselves, the landing remains the most important part of any jump. Besides, nowadays the wingload for the best CReW teams is what; 2.0? 2.4? CReW is certainly heaps of fun if us pups take the right approach to learn it. However, if people take the Sangi approach to CReW, you're looking at a double fatality in the making. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
Muffie replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
Or maybe he was thinking he was either going to die or pull it off and if he was dead, then it was over and if he pulled it off then he'd get the rush. I've been thinking about this for a bit now and Sangi's incident brought it to the forefront in my mind. When I entered the sport I knew there was a risk of dying no matter what you did (plane crashes happen each year), but I was ok with that risk. I'm single and I don't have so much as a plant that relies on my continued existence. I don't want to die and I'm sure there are people who would miss me (hopefully), but if I did die it'd be over. It was when I started to realize the number of busted pelvises, snapped femurs, etc. that my perspective started to change, because what I don't want is to be laid up in a hospital for six months and unable to walk properly for the rest of my life. And I don't want to have to put that kind of burden on the people around me or find myself alone in a moment like that because none of them can take it. Now, I'm not into rapid canopy progression or doing crazy stupid shit on my jumps, so I'm not exactly the target population for these types of "interventions" but maybe we need to quit telling guys who are pushing too hard too fast that they might die and instead talk to them about the jumpers who are in wheelchairs, brain damaged, have lost limbs, etc. Maybe we should emphasize instead the life changing consequences of surviving accidents like this. Instead of seeing it as go big or die it might help if they see it as taking a little extra time to learn the right skills vs. living the rest of their life looking at the sky and wishing they could jump but not being able to. -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
wolfriverjoe replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
No, it's just pretty rare that the pages and pages of warnings and advice are documented this well or are proven to be accurate so quicky. I've been debating commenting on this, and with the number of deleted posts and warnings in the Incidents thread, I'll do it here. First off, I'm sorry he got hurt. But he was warned. VB risked losing him as a friend in order not to have him get hurt (in vain as it turned out, but the effort was there). His comments about not fearing death indicate to me that he refused to believe that he was going to get hurt. He wouldn't admit it, probably not even to himself, but he believed deep in his heart that he was too good to die. He's not the first one I've seen this in (including myself). Most of us are immortal for a period of time, usually late teens to early twenties. Some have harder lessons than others, some only have a second or two left in their life to realize it. I had a friend biff hard enough to break bones earlier this year. One week after being warned he was pushing too hard. He may or may not have learned his lesson. It's a bit early to tell. Indications are mixed. I have to decide how much I can and am willing to do in order to keep him from getting hurt again. It may cost me our friendship, and even that may not be enough to keep him from hurting or killing himself. This isn't new or limited to skydiving. Some people realize the risks, take the time and put forth the effort to become competent and end up doing well. Others... Not so much. They don't have the patience to put in the work. They are looking for the "rush" of doing dangerous stuff without realizing how dangerous it really is. Sangi's posting history shows (to me at least) that he had very little appreciation for the risks in the stuff he was doing and wanted to do. It was "cool" or "fun" or a "rush", but not really dangerous. Not in any way that would really affect him. Well, he's going to have to live with the effects of those choices. For the rest of his life. Like 'Twardo noted, you don't come back all the way from these kinds of injuries. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo -
what do owners think of their JFX
Blamey replied to daleskydive's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
This was posted in the Sangi Incidents thread and seemed appropriate for this discussion. http://people.psych.cornell.edu/~dunning/publications/pdf/unskilledandunaware.pdf -
what do owners think of their JFX
virgin-burner replied to daleskydive's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
"no!"? but that's up to you, this week and a couple previous ones were quite sickening, they've had a terrible outcome, and i cant be arsed no more wasting my time on crap like this.. it get's tiring AND old.. hey, did sangi pound in ? yes femur, punctured/collapsed lung, brain- and heart-concussion, possibly brain injuries; on the safire2, impacted only one meter or 3 feet by the tarmac.. edit: forgot to add the broken back, dont know if completely severed or "only" broken vertebrae.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda -
what do owners think of their JFX
spootch replied to daleskydive's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
"no!"? but that's up to you, this week and a couple previous ones were quite sickening, they've had a terrible outcome, and i cant be arsed no more wasting my time on crap like this.. it get's tiring AND old.. hey, did sangi pound in ? -
what do owners think of their JFX
Joellercoaster replied to daleskydive's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
One thing I've learned in my not-many years in skydiving: There is no idea so boneheaded you can't find at least one super-experienced DSZO/CCI/whatever who will tell you you'll be fine. Hopefully they're right and all the (many, many) other super-experienced people are wrong, and you will be fine. Hearing what happened to Sangi this week made me sick... I never met him but I remember him from his early days on UKS, and nobody deserves that. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? -
what do owners think of their JFX
virgin-burner replied to daleskydive's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
great thinking mate, sangi also got "in the corner" on his safire with a really short recovery-arc.. if he done the same thing with the katana.. or he hit the tarmac which was only a meter or so to the side.. all your coaching wont help you if you brainlock, and that will very likely happen if something goes wrong - because you dont have the experience AND the confidence.. but hey, as i said, it's all good, go for it! i couldnt care less.. i only wonder why you come on here to look for justification, since you have all those great guys at the dz.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda -
what do owners think of their JFX
virgin-burner replied to daleskydive's topic in General Skydiving Discussions
oh, and if a canopy is marketed "as wingsuit-, camera- and sportjumping-FRIENDLY, it probably relates to the openings.. no manufacturer will make an x-braced canopy that is not high-performance.. you will figure it out! maybe talk to sangi when he's out of coma, i'm pretty sure he'll let you participate in his wisdom.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
Scrumpot replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
Unfortunately, been seen before. Nothing "new" here. See: The Story of Dudi ...and: HIS OWN WORDS TOO They ALL think they are above it all somehow, or have "mad-skillz" that no one else before them has ever had, or appreciates, or has the capabilities to recognize. Heal quickly, well and fully Dudi... ummmm, errrrr... I mean, Sangi. coitus non circum - Moab Stone -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
DocPop replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
Heal fast, Sangi, and tell us what happened when you feel up to it. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
crashtested replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
That is brilliant..... Very rarely do so many warnings, advice, over pages and pages of transcripts completely get ignored to the extent of the skygod in training, actually really fucking themselves... Maybe we could cut this thread down a bit and make it a sticky... Well done sangi, you've done yourself proud.... I'm Glad it was only you, and not an unsuspecting victim as-well. -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
wildcard451 replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it. Well. Not true. 1) His canopy chose was fucking stupid He wasn;t talking performance. He was talking feeling. When I've gone back to a katana from my velo, it still performs well, however, it definitely FEELS like a sluggish, less responsive wing. I definitely know how to fly both. By no means is he flying either wing close to performance limits. Definitely no to the KA, and yes to a lighter loaded Safire. I could do the opposite to you: I could strap some weights on you, and give you a VC79. You are gonna land and say "Damn, that was fast as shit." It didn't "feel" fast because you might have no idea how to fly it, it felt fast because it felt fast. Sangi has made some dumb choices, but to rail him on a subjective opinion between two decidedly different wings is a bit of a reach. -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
piisfish replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
Sangi, what about getting your hands on a slightly smaller Safire ? So you can progressively and "relatively safely" get a higher wingloading ? and going from Safire129 to KAtana 97 Glad you took a step back. -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
virgin-burner replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
i've just seen sangi on cam, he hooked the safire back up, the katana was in a bag AND he said he'll wait until he's learned to fly that one a bit better. the boy finally grew some BALLS! you may still think i'm an asshole, but there will be a time you will thank me for my "public taring and feathering".. now, everyone go and buy him a beer! -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
mircan replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually YOU try to beat that into his stubborn skull - mccordia, myself AND others have done our part; and we're sick and tired of it. we just hope he wont turn into someone.. I am just now responding because honestly that flying sucks and it pissed me off to watch. Keep stabbing it out and one day you will be in the corner too deep and not be able to pull that off and that is when you will shit yourself. Sangi, please listen to these guys. You`re stabbing out of it every time. Like I did before I chewed It`s only matter of time... dudeist skydiver #42 -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
virgin-burner replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
and FUCK you andy! that's it guys, i'm going back to my old self! sangi, YOU DA MAN!!! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
Remster replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
Well, at the very least, we now have confirmation that Rigless = Sangi (not that there was much doubt anyways). Remster -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
virgin-burner replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
awesome sangi jumping the katana maybe dont comment on it, otherwise he'll pull it again.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
virgin-burner replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
i'm making this shit public now.. fuck it. Sangi, Rigless, whatever your future new name will be, u're a fucking idiot, u've lost two "mates" over the course of the last three days, i've lost my patience (again), go kill yourself or end up in hospital.. you're never gonna learn. ciao. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda -
Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]
mccordia replied to virgin-burner's topic in Safety and Training
VB I applaud your effort, but from what I got said jumper did fly his canopy. He proudly sent me a videostil from a camera he also shouldnt be jumping. Its a shame people dishonestly ask for a lot of advice just to get attention, and live a life online with dz.com and youtube posts showing how awesome they are for doing stupid shit. Yet they dont see they are gloryfying their own stupidity and thereby shitting on the good intentions and friendships with people they have been asking for advice (with no intent to follow up on it). Thank you for waisting my time Sangi. I truly hope you dont lead other jumpers onto the same 'no skills, no patience' road of shortcuts to a fatality you're seemingly proud of taking. Be proud of the gear and low jumpnumbers you listed in your profile (though you cowardly changed it back to a bigger one after reading this thread). I blocked you on skype. Never dare ask me anything again. I know of better ways to waste my time....and dont want to be part of your immature, impatient, sad attempts at showing of and taking shortcuts with possible lethal concequences... Id so had hoped for a bit more spine/brains... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? -
Yep, it's always priceless, when the one's who are used to constantly winning are being wiped out by so much.. Too bad you can't see their faces do you know Sangi, by any chance? Because you sure sound a lot like him.
