crustySCSA69

if i was Bill i'd say "fuck it, no one hop and pops" sucks for everyone else but how can you blame him ? blame the brainless leach that saw PAYDAY after he fucked up.... adding to this after reading more here ... if you EVER looked out a door, back at the tail and thought ANYTHING but a dive, straight down thru the door made any sense ... then you are a total fucking idiot and deserve to have your head removed by said tail ...

CRDAS !!! all; the way to the SB !!!!! whoooohooo Warner is GOD !!!! no, GOD is Warner's assistant !!! wooohoooo !! go CRDAS !!!!!

a thread called 'Enjoy sunflower seeds?' ended up in front of this one ?? what kind of wussy motherfuckers jump these days ?? go CRADS !!! thats right CRADS!! couple more beers and it'll be CRDAS !!!

Yes, he WAS taught to recover from an unintentional spin. And, he was required to demonstrate his ability to do so. at last, some info ! thx in that case, he should hang it up right now.... and leave it hung up ....

sorry .. it's deja vu all over again ... cept for the eventual winners ... who have a big pissed off lookin red bird on their helmets ...

above is the original post page after page of total 'AAD is good' 'AAD is wussy' nonsense ... along with, 'Cypres saved you, maybe you should quit' the germane point here folks, is that NO ONE taught this guy how to get out of an unintentional spin... the only student to answer the question said he was NEVER taught how to get out of one... (although he seemed to have good awareness of what to do in the air, good for him, even if he does land shitty) are we all so modern now.... that it can't happen ? you've done AFF (with people holding you) so how could you spin on your own ?? so why bother imparting how to immediately correct it ?? I agree with TWARDO from another thread... you guys don;t even know how to go in right....

i can't believe this ... I had to cheer for Cutler (I loathe Cutler, but good job buddy) and now this week I have to cheer for Eli Manning (this is too much) and THEN I have to cheer for Tony Romo, a freakin COWBOY.... and I have to cheer for him ... all to get the CARDS the bye and home field all the way to the NFC championship (SAINTS are gone in 1) it's a distasteful, dirty job... but I'll do it... oh... please note all these mathematicals are to try and get 2cd Seed and Home Field... CARDS are already in the playoffs STEALERS probably won't even make it ... hooo hahhhahhahah hooooo haahahahahah

The OP may not be around here anymore ... but my question to him is Didn't they train you, if in an uncontrolled spin, go into a tight ball (think cannonball) and then arch like holy hell ?? and if not, why not ? what the fuck ? SHAH269.... chime in here if you read this... but you are somewhat of newer student... are they not telling students that these days ?? I know this technique works because long ago, I used it on all 3 10 sec delays ... all 3 15s and all 3 20sec delays ... they let me continue because i was dumping stable at the correct altitude... even if I did just spend the previous 17 seconds spinning like a top..

mid-seventies ... I come from a small Canadian dropzone where all of us 'jumpers' jumped.... almost every Canadian I met came, like me, from a small drop-zone founded or heavily influenced by Canadian airborne members and almost universally referred to each other as 'jumpers' who 'jumped'.... down to Z-hills .... many people from small drop-zones (founded or influenced by US airborne) that came there were 'jumpers' who 'jumped' ... the Brits in particular were ALL 'jumpers' who 'jumped'. some Z-hills locals at the time (mid 70's) were 2cnd and 3rd generation and were always referring to 'skydivers' who 'skydive' (usually shortened to 'dove', for past tense) this seemed very strange to the rest of us.. but by early 80's, we were all bi-lingual and 'Skydivers' who 'skydive' was more common than 'jumpers' who 'jump' I would absolutely guarantee that NOT ONE SINGLE 'jumper' or 'skydiver' of that era, EVER referred to selves or others as 'Parachutists' that was solely used to designate the magazine (the term may have been used by some few to hornswoggle DEMO work out of unsuspecting business types, but I guarantee that those hornswogglers, alone with other 'jumpers/skydivers' NEVER said 'I am a Parachutist' .... they would have been branded effete twits and sprayed with beer). let's face it, we couldn't have spelled effete ... it would have been 'fuckin' twits' and then a spray of beer, probably Old Milwaukee since no one was allowed to buy it anyway, or you risked being called a 'cheap fucking twit' ... or even worse, a Parachutist

about 79 at z-hills ... 737 goes under dc-3 ........ removed for environmental reasons... conserve pixels !!! ...... One occurrence for you from 1979? yep ... 1 in 79 ... course with 42 (counting pilots) on 40 tango and approx 110 (guess here) on 737 .. had we been 150 ft closer.... that would have been 162 dead .... that would average 5.58 per year up to current ... of course jumping would be different because i'm sure they would have slapped a 100 mi buffer out from every commercial airport ... bye bye Perris, Elsinore, Z-hills, Deland and Eloy and probably just about any drop zone of any size whatsoever.... Sorry, I guess you missed my point. You personally only having one incident in 30 years would not make me believe (in your case) that it is a major problem. Also 42+110=152. sorry.... you missed my point(s)... A. it will take one MAJOR incident to change skydiving forever... B. it will take 1 minor incident to change YOUR life forever (forever being the next 3 to 90 seconds, depending) ... so if someone sees something (and they dam well better be looking as soon as the door goes up) ... then a go-around is totally justified (and this from someone who asked for a go-around ONCE in approx 1000 spots, pre GPS) .. go arounds are cheap.... collisions aren't ... the whole point was a reply to things like this : "Id venture one in a billion chance. Its a pretty big sky. " and "I'd venture there have been at least a billion jumps in history. How many jumpers have ever impacted a lower flying plane? " and "Dude, a lot of people on here are going to inflate the significance of events or risk because they are dorkzoners (internet skygods). I have never even come close to this type of situation and neither has anyone I know." (if you ever do... hope you don't die either) and "Exactly, so jump f$%k out and PRAY that you don't get struck by a plane. That's what I'm thinking every jump. " and "Don't forget, we're talking about near misses, and indirectly referring to people getting hit because why else would we care about near misses? And my original response was refering to that type of situation being a problem. It's not. Jut skim through the fatality lists... " and "ok...so that's 2 skydivers total, right? And what year did this happen? It's significant when people die, but come on man!!!! seriously? " and "However, I have seen far too many go-arounds on jump because someone saw an airplane directly below. A practice that is completely ridiculous. " if you look down, see something, and go around ... you have totally controlled the situation .... chance of collision = 0%.... if you ignore it (it'll be gone when we get there, or DON'T even look) you now have a finite probability of collision ... might be small... but IT IS NOT 0% if people stop looking, or start ignoring ... there will be a catastrophic collision ... the only question is when ?? for the sake of all the quoted people here... hope it doesn't happen on their watch... and they are not branded as the careless douches that cripple skydiving forever ...

He was allowing for those on the ground. Sparky right ... 8 on the ground (737 debris hits 7-11) and the 2 suicides by the Tampa/Miami controllers ... = 162

about 79 at z-hills ... 737 goes under dc-3 ........ removed for environmental reasons... conserve pixels !!! ...... One occurrence for you from 1979? yep ... 1 in 79 ... course with 42 (counting pilots) on 40 tango and approx 110 (guess here) on 737 .. had we been 150 ft closer.... that would have been 162 dead .... that would average 5.58 per year up to current ... of course jumping would be different because i'm sure they would have slapped a 100 mi buffer out from every commercial airport ... bye bye Perris, Elsinore, Z-hills, Deland and Eloy and probably just about any drop zone of any size whatsoever....

Financially and reality are 2 different things. If you think you can run a dz with just fun jumpers and break even (unless you are running your plane at night running cargo. What ever "cargo" pays the bills) you obviously have never been on the paying end of plane maintenance and fuel costs. Good luck with that and I'm sure you will change your mind after a few weeks about needing tandems and AFF's dave Z-Hills - 76 (when I got there) to 81 (when I left) ... might have had 30-40 students total ... that's about 6 a year..... Your model will work just fine if you create the place people want to go to.... the old z-hills considered you OK (although they would keep an eye on you) if you could fall for 30 seconds by yourself... otherwise... bring your own instructor (that was OK too) ... they just had NO student facilities whatsoever .. and did just fine financially (believe me, I know.) and any late night southern flight profits (if there were any, I certainly could not testify there were) NEVER went back into that drop-zone (I can testify to that), it made money hand over fist, just on jumping... all this student crap is just low hanging fruit ... if you say you NEED that, you don't really care about skydiving, you just want to make a lot of money (nothing wrong there... let's just cut the bull and be honest) when I hit Perris in 81 and saw the 'student show' I was flabbergasted ... I had no idea a big drop zone had much of anything to do with students at all ... now, follow out last student in a DC_3 load on the second pass of 4 passes of 8, freefall past the first pass of students, dump around 15... collapse the front of your main immediately and don't let it up till about 70ft off ground .. and you could cause quite a stir back then ... but I digress ... I like your business plan ... go for it

about 79 at z-hills ... 737 goes under dc-3 (actually c-47, but who knows the difference anymore) on jump run with 40 people ... about 100ft separation ... yup, that sky is REAL big .... 1/2 second difference and you might not be jumping today... not sure the fall-out from 40 dead jumpers and a 737 full of people but i'm betting huge ... i was spotting in door (huge old 140 tango door, you could walk thru it standing up, not teensy otter door) and saw (no glasses on, kinda blurry) what I thought was a dc-3 ... out in front, coming our way, way low... then it got bigger ... then a whole lot bigger and I realized what it was .. had time to point and go 'duh .. duh' and flexed knees .. I was leaving, screw everyone else (not proud of that, but what can ya do?..we were all about to die) Ron (sorry, can't remember last name, think Mark Borghurst was co-pilot, he was mechanic at the time) threw 40 Tango into left turn ... 90 degrees ... i am glued to floor in door ... no hands on anything, just feet on floor and stretched out face down in door and can't move due to G's, and the 737 goes under us ... maybe a 100 ft amtbe 150ft below .. I am standing up but flat out horizontal looking down ... i could have recognized my mom if she had her face scrunched up to a window in the 737 ... I watched every window go by... had Ron not turned and glued me to the floor, i'd a been outta there and right in front of it ... on ground ... 40Tango lands and I hover by office ..., Ron leaves plane with props turning (co-pilot can shut down) RUNS into office and gets on phone ... Tampa approach - 'no, we passed it off to Miami control ( Ron was talking on radio to Tampa approach until 7,500... then switched to Miami control) Miami control - 'no, they didn't give it to us' (Ron had, as usual, advised Miami control of climb to 12,000 and announced jump run to them) ... obviously, 737 crew had heads down and saw nothing at all yup, big old sky... no need to worry about what else is out there, everyone is very competent and taking care of your sorry ass ............ moron

I reattached the cartoon from your next post ... since it was relevant to this we used to laugh that Mark Sechler liked to do 1 jump a month .... because inevitably would get a 30 day grounding within a day or 2 of being cleared from his last .... had Mark smoked it on down on his last jump, he'd probably be alive .... because he would have been on the ground instead of at the same spot, 400ft up, as the guy he entangled with .... LOW PULLS SAVE LIVES !!!!

jeezzz dammm I can't resist this one... I'v read some stuff about 'low pull contests were fairy tales' ... it's just they were rarely planned .. i watched 1 over Perris ... 13 way on Fri 13th, we all understood we open at 13 ... tracking off I am going in to pull at 14 and notice Dylan and Mark Sechler tracking side by side and looking at each other ... and still going ... planned ? no ... they rarely were .. but they kept tracking ... i didn't notice who won... first hard pull EVER on my hip mount hand deploy ... it came on second try ... but I was not giving it anymore... was headed for reserve next point is... the 'Intentional' low pullers knew where they were... knew the odds ... knew the best solution to a problem ... (if your real low... just pull the reserve..) that is the exact argument being used by the 'SWOOP MAFIA' .. we KNOW what we are doing, we know the odds ... the thing is, no one makes money off you pulling low... people make money off of parachutes .. therefore, what you do with a parachute is out of bounds... no regulation allowed sorry ... but if you take last 30 years of skydiving (hell take last 40 and include Casa Grande where the dufi tried and died) and add up ALL the 'Intentional' low puller frappes ... and it will not equal a SINGLE year of people dying under supposedly perfectly operational 'parachutes' .... not even close ... screw banning swooping... ban square parachutes ... you'll immediately save a minimum of 15 people a year ... I bet Cypres can't claim that ... oh, wait, that's right .... people make BIG bucks off those square pieces of crap... well, I guess we better just forget that then ...

just found out he is gone ... merde ... putain!! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3690365 I remember one day at Z-hills, the FAA had just showed up, routine call, someone had bounced 2 weeks before and they were mostly just touching base (and making sure 140 Tango's long range tanks were still up in the rafters and not in the plane; is my guess) so Feds are in with Frasier in his office and Frenchy comes running in the back door (back from his morning walk searching for ripcords, etc. and some Swedes had described other things he should look for... things they would pay good money for) and he is yelling "HANS !! HANS!! are zese za right mushharooms !!!! " Frenchy is hustled into loft, told to shut the hell up, the Feds are here ... and besides Frenchy... zose are NOT za right mushharooms !!! Frenchy goes ... Merde !!! Putain !!! Merde !! BSBD you old derelict bastard !!

merde ! merde ! MERDE! hard to believe he is gone. A lot of posts mention the 80s. Frenchy was there at Z-Hills in 76 and up till I left in 80. We both lived in the loft (old Z-hills). Around 78-79 I said "Frenchy, I know you have done RW but have you ever actually pinned anyone ?" and he said "No, merde, I no like anyway, they make me sometimes, they just fly to me" So I said you old derelict, you are going to pin me. We go up, I sit there and he flails around, close but not closing last 10 feet. On the ground, I said, "Frenchy, you're not straightening your legs" and made him lie on a table and push his legs down against my hands, while holding his shins up... I said, see, the air pressure makes you think they are straight, you have to really push .. Frenchy goes "Merde ! Merde!" I have to go in town (I work at DZ and duty calls) .. I come back and Dave Cooper (Welsh slime bastard.. if he is reading) has grabbed Frenchy, gone up and Frenchy has pinned HIM !!!!! I am royally pissed... next day I MAKE Frenchy pin me (Frenchy is going "Merde ! I do this once. Why do I need to do again ??") I said " Shut up you derelict bastard.. you WILL pin me!!" and he does..... I was on the 1st 64 way in Perris around 80-81 BUT my most memorable jump ever, one I can see in my head anytime I want was a simple 3 way. When I made Frenchy pin me, an old derelict named Carl Beck (one eye, not many teeth, huge facial scars beneath the big scraggly beard... and half crippled to boot) asked if he could come third. I say, Carl, I would be honoured, just wait till Frenchy pins, and he did. So I am in a 3 way with 2 grinning old derelicts, Frenchy, whose 5th jump was the Free French airborne invasion of Southern France in early 1945 and Carl Beck, whose 6th jump was Normandy and whose 8th jump was Arnhem (a Bridge too far) where he got a face full of mortar ... hence his good looks ... I am in AWE... total flat out AWE to be in the air with history ... I still get shivers ... Frenchy, I hope you are flying endless RW with Carl and save a slot for me you old Derelict.

I for one , am happy to see you back Slyde, it's almost like having Kerouac on the site....

it was a nice 50 try .... but was not a 50 under 'standard' rules at the time ... which were, hold it for at least 3 seconds... in the very late 70's Jerry Bird admitted in the loft at Z-hills that the jump did not meet that criteria, he said they had a still photo, but the last jumper was descending into his slot, took grips, photo was shot, jumper kept going down and let go .... he was just passing thru... even Jerry said it was not really valid ... about a year after the jump in the film ... there was a 50 way, on a Saturday in Z-hills ... held for about 10 seconds ... THAT was the First 50 way.. interesting note on that, it was about Easter time, a bunch of people that had been there all winter were on practice jumps and got 'bounced' off for friends of the organizer, coming down from the Mid-west and North-east... said 'bouncees' got pissed off, did a little leg work and announced on the PA in the evening (to great derision from some of the 50 way participants) that a 50+ way was going up on Sunday and listed names for interested people to go talk to if anyone thought they were capable.. only disqualifying condition was 'You cannot have been on today's 50 way' !! try that at one of today's records ... hahaha .. they talked the 'Herd' from pensylvania into making a 16 way base... up to then, the Herd were a bunch of oversized, partying maniacs with no particular rep (although great company in the pickup on garbage runs to the dump), but the locals (pissed off, over-winter jumpers) knew that some of the Herd were pretty good and it guaranteed a smokin fast base (not to be sneezed at in the days of the 'wing war'). This was the birth of 'Rent-A-Base' and the Herd's prominence as records started heading towards 100. The first (and only) practice jump went up, a 36 way in some semi cloudy conditions, so the cut was heard, the jumpers could be heard falling but no one on the ground could see anything... then falling past one cloud appeared a solid 36, obviously built high... and falling forever... very quickly, some of the 50 way participants were seen trying to snivel on to the next jump.. a 57 (planned that way) try ... and they were all told sorry ... you were on the 50 way.... you should have heard the whining and bitching... they were afraid they 'd lose the record the very next day ... jump goes up ... 53/54 in out of 57 ... so no record, but, point made this jump called themselves the 'B' team and immediately (within a couple hours) had t-shirts made at a little place in town saying 'B' team on top and 'First 50 way meet' on the bottom with a big blot in the middle ... I was asked on the 'B' team jump but had a head cold, so I declined (that tore me up, but last time I jumped with a head cold I went stone cold deaf for 3 hours and wasn't looking to make it permanent) so I went and got one of the t-shirts and had the guy print 'I SNIVELLED OFF' across the back .. I still call that day the 'The Death of Sky God' so, kids, next time you are put on the bench at a world record try .... just organize your own; wthout the people on the first one....

Mike, A twin Beech? Where was this happening at? I have a few twin Beech jumps in Ill, but none in Fl and never saw a twin Beech at Z-Hills or Deland (except maybe for meets). somewhere in the late 70's, a twin beech was at Z-hills... not enough folks to fly Tango and the twin B had lost an engine ... Frasier found one in some air-rag .. it was in Kansas City, Missouri .. Mitch Decoteau and I left in the old green DZ pickup Wed at noon and arrived back Fri at noon (with the engine) ... days of 55 on the highway... mapquest it... we averaged 62 miles per hr IF WE HAD NEVER STOPPED ... we stopped for 2 meals a day (Frasier was paying) ... 5 hrs at the place to load and have dinner ... a detour into back roads of Kentucky on the way back, so Mitch could call an old girlfriend (she didn't want to talk to him) ... and we still averaged 62 (Mitch averaged about 90-95 and I was doing 80, even with the engine in back ... don't know how we never got arrested) so yes... there was a beech at Z-hills ... at least for that winter ... and on that Kentucky detour we stopped in some little rat hole town at a 1 pump gas station ... late... and all these 'bubbas' start appearing around the corners... I was hearing the Deliverance soundtrack in my head (Mitch and i both looked pretty long-haired scruffy and these were all very big dudes, short hair and in coveralls) ...they were looking at us none too friendly and suddenly they saw the engine ... 'WHOT Th' hell is that ??' ... so Mitch does a big song and dance ' RJ whatever blah blah 1350 horsepower blah blah' ... and they go "whooah.. you cud really get your truck goin' with that under the hood"... suddenly, we're great guys... they get us gas ... direct us to bar (for previously mentioned phone call) and all is flowers and sunshine .... instead of death and dismemberment in the midnight gloom, with banjos plunkin in mountain air ...

c'mon who believes that !! you and OB both suck !!!

this sounds a lot like " i'm in a sport no one wants to watch or give me huge wads of cash to do" whiney bitch cryin' to me

I'll meet you after 9 days .. I'll have NO expectations.. We'll go to MacDonalds, 10 bucks max, you can pay and I'll worry about it, and won't think it's cute ... I won't expect you to be impressed ... Monkey business will never enter my mind .. I sure hope you don't lower your standards for me AND I'LL STILL BE EXACTLY LIKE THAT GUY

I read this whole thread ... I started on a little tiny dz (pre tandem) with about 10 people that knew what they were doing .. 10 (maybe) that were learning ... a bunch of us just learning... if you showed up for more than 2 jumps .. you were taken seriously .. i spun from my first 10 sec (you needed 3 good 10s, 3 good 15s and 3 good 20s and 3 good 30s to go for an A license) and spun EVERY jump up to my 1st 30 ... then I learned to stop it.... they never dinged me for a re-jump at any level because at pull time ( I kept track) I would go in a ball...stop spinning... arch and pull.. they said... hey, you pulled stable .. so try it again .. on a 20 sec, a jumpmaster followed me because they they were mystified and he said "I don't know what's wrong,..just keep moving your legs.. maybe that's it" my 1st 30 sec logbook entry (by the jumpmaster) was "no turns!!.. far out !! now try turns.." try that today ... how many K bucks for someone so obviously inept ??? ( I do have 1/64 of a world record) gear .. better be up to date ... how many K ??? I was on a world record with a rig that cost 200 $ and a main and reserve that were 100 $ each total gear = 400$ today ... that's just not 'cool' and someone like me would be too discouraged to continue ... if the cost is too much... the participant number declines ... it's not rocket science ... I don't care what you do ... if there is no reasonable cost option (and I think needing a 'Coach' between AFF and A is a total pile of bullshit ) then I don't care how you encourage newbie's, numbers will just keep declining...