Ion01

The typical excuse for taking our freedoms is that it is good for society. Well lets look at this really quick. Supply vs demand. If people don't get sick and need treatment then when they do the cost of that treatment will skyrocket. Also, past presidents have raised taxes on cigarettes numerous times claiming it will result in saving in healthcare costs. Guess what. It didn't!!!! This is just another attempt to pay for the insane stimulus package and for the federal government to take more power! If I want to be fat or kill myself with smoke or alchohol then that my decision....my life.... and i have to pay for the treatment so its my money and my treatment. If I don't pay then to bad for me! I should have been more responsible and prepared! As long as I am not screwing up anyone else why can't I screw myself up? I am healthy, I have never smoked or drank a drop of alchohol but if you want to kill yourself that way go ahead. Why should you not have that freedom as long as you are not kill me while your at it? The real problem is what laws we have are not enforced. If you want to drink fine but don't get in a car and hit someone else or you should be punished....not have 5 previous DUI's and no insurance and hit my car and take 2 years to get my money from you and you still have a legal license and car? What is up with that. Do you think taxes will fix that? NO!!!

Also, you won't have a choice either. I know obama claims you will but that is if you are willing to pay the government fine for not using it. Also, the bill will also control the frequency of which you are allowed to have a child! The type of care you will be given will be determined by your worth as a contributor to the USA! So if you are old and retired you are no longer a contributor and a drain on society. Sorry, the government has decided your life is not worth the money. Some other things that may be on the way in regards to healthcare. "President Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, took a controversial and amoral approach to the science of population by recommending mass compulsory sterilization and even forced abortion (and/or forced marriages) under certain circumstances." This man believes its okay to kill babies up to two years old because they are not "human beings". Lets also not forget that obama believes that its okay to not provide care to babies that lived through the abortion process. If this passes I will be working on leaving this country! Its it not longer the USA. The constitution no longer has any meaning or power. This is not the country i grew up in and its not the country that I am going to support or be crushed under!

From what I understand the new healthcare plan covers all doctors and thier practice. It determines how they are to be payed and their license to practice can be taken if they don't follow the government guidelines and mandates. This also brings up other issues such as if doctors will be required to perform abortions against thier moral convictions under the threat of loosing thier license. We don't know yet and they won't answer that question either which to me means they probably will. Whether you agree with abortion or not that is just an example of how thier freedoms will be totally taken away. As you said, it is a business and we are supposed to have the freedom to run our business the way we want to. If you don't like how one doctor runs his then go somewhere else. Thats what I did until I found a great doctor. Ultimately, like everything else the feds are doing, this is about freedom. Healthcare is not a right.

Obviously this guy is way off base on his beliefs and his supposed evidence is just miss-used and twisted information, however, that does not make all people who are "religious" nuts or stupid. Should I look at some of the people who killed themselves skydiving by doing something stupid and should obviously not have done (swooping with less that 50 jumps for example) and call all skydivers stupid and suicidal? Obviously not. Then why do the same except in the opposite direction. For goodness sakes...even some of the scriptures given in opposition to this guys position aren't correct either. There are plenty of bible scholars who don't believe the bible and are not "religious" who have a much better understanding than most people here. What does either side really think they are going to accomplish. do you really think you are going to help the "religious" come to your understanding of things (whether its correct or not) by simply making fun of them and laughing? If thats not your intent the leave it alone and don't make fun at all. Can you really be so hipocritical to point at the religious and tell them not to judge you when you judge them?

Nor will you find anything in the Constitution specifically making, for example, a universal public school education a right. Yet it is. Americans define what their rights are, and they do it in any number of ways. It is a continuous process, not a static one, dependent solely on the Constitution. Yes, the Constitution is one source of Americans' rights, but it is only one source out of many. Health care will be a right in the US when enough Americans decide that it is through the democratic process - and that includes public debate, such as off-the-wall blogs like this Forum - and it is formally codified into law. Do you have any idea what a republic is and how it works? That is what the USA is. It is a republic not a democracy and what you are saying is not the way this country was set up to operate. In fact, men like jefferson didn't want a democracy because they new if would lead to socialism. This is why the set up our government as a republic.

dude....the first time I met my grandfather-in-law I thought he was in his late 50's maybe early 60's but he was 83. Sometimes age is really hard to tell. He is in great shape to. In fact he is in better shape than me at 27 as we had to move a really heavy table and he had less of a hard time that I did. (My wife's side of the family can typically live to be 100) Age does not automatically equal frailty and it can be really hard to judge age of some people.

The discussion should be about FREEDOM!!!!!

I would think its more along the fact that the older skydivers haven't lost their love of life and adventure. Young people, although sometimes crazy due to thier inexperience and belief they are invinsible, also seem to simply be more adventurous and want to experience more in life. This is really what skydiving seems to be about for most of us. We simply want to experience life to its fullest! Most people, as they get older simply become to serious about life and, as a result, never truely experience life and the amazing wonders it has to offer. I think this is the link, not maturity levels.

The amazing thing is that this is all so simple yet people often overlook (or avoid) the obvious. "To say intelligent causes are empirically detectable is to say there exist well-defined methods that, on the basis of observational features of the world, are capable of reliably distinguishing intelligent causes from undirected natural causes. Many special sciences have already developed such methods for drawing this distinction-notably forensic science, cryptography, archeology, and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (as in the movie Contact).... Whenever these methods detect intelligent causation, the underlying entity they uncover is information. Intelligent Design properly formulated is a theory of information. Within such a theory, information becomes a reliable indicator of intelligent causation as well as a proper object for scientific investigation. Intelligent Design thereby becomes a theory for detecting and measuring information, explaining its origin, and tracing its flow. Intelligent Design is therefore not the study of intelligent causes per se, but of informational pathways induced by intelligent causes." I use the same methods as an forensic science, cryptography, archeology, and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence does to believe in a creator. I have found the simplest question that works in all areas - Can natural forces create what I have found? If I have found a piece of fire hardened clay with a carving in it I can easily concluded that it was created; Same with a painting in a cave; Same with an electric motor, which many hold as one of the biggest signs of our scientifically advanced society. When we look in some cells we find an electric motor called a flagella. Why can we not conclude that it was created? Are you familiar with irreducible complexity by Meyer? Here is his site to help http://www.discovery.org/a/3408 Also, as stated in the quote, information is also a key. If we received a series of radio wave pulses from outer space which could be interpreted into a single sentence such as “We are here” everyone would conclude that aliens sent the message, and rightfully so. We now know of something called DNA which contains so much information that it results in beings, such as us, which are more complex that anything we have every created or even imagined. Just as an archeologist would do, we conclude from such evidence that we were created. This is sound science. On the other hand evolution requires that you not only ignore such evidence but that you simply have faith (a greater faith than I could ever have) that one day we will find a way to explain how DNA and the Flagella Motor can come about. Yes there are a lot of theories. Do they have a good foundation in observation and experimentation? I can theorize that invisible knomes do my work while I am at home. I may even give all kinds of “evidence” such as the simple fact that when I leave work and set the alarm there is no one left at work and when I get there the next day my spread sheet is on my pc and is done. I, of course, have over look many details in the formulation of my theory such as my computer is connected to a network and can be accessed by other employees who have the same job as I do. Anyways, I think you see my point. People can develop all kinds of ideas but unless they are based in the real world in which we live and takes all evidence into consideration they are nothing more than ideas. www.designinference.com/ William Dembski has a Ph.D. in philosophy (Univerity of Illinois at Chicago), a Ph.D. in mathematics (University of Chicago), and a masters of divinity from Princeton. A mathematician and a philosopher, he is associate research professor in the conceptual foundations of science at Baylor University and a senior fellow at Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Dr. Dembski previously taught at Northwestern University, the University of Notre Dame, and the University of Dallas as well as having done post doctoral work at MIT, the University of Chicago, and Princeton. http://www.icr.org/article/773/

Fair enough, but having your feet in front, and your body "driving in" from behind could result in your legs taking too much impact - injury perhaps? Now feet behind, could be feet knees face, or feet knees side (assuming your turn your body when impact) I've also seen and heard of swoops gone wrong (this thread isn't about high performance landing but think this example illustrates a good point), where the pilot was a fraction too low, feet behind, fee impacted, rest of body followed, somersault through risers, no real injury. Now had he had his feet in front, I reckon much worse outcome... Thanks for the input. I'm just trying to thrash out a lot of ideas currently in my head, so please dont think my mind is made up There was a case some time back at my drop zone where I guy did just this but had injuries Broke his neck and is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life. He cam in exactly as you described but when his face hit his body kept going right over top of him and snapped his neck. It is always best to land feet first. Think about it. If its such a high speed impact that it is going to break your legs think about the damage that will be done to the other parts of your body if your legs don't absorb the impact! Its simple mechanics. Think about it like this. If you are going to jump off the roof of your house how are you going to land? With your feet back so your body impacts the ground then your face and hope you don't brake your neck.....or one foot forward and one back so you can't absorb the impact and rip your groin or brake your back leg or your back......extend your legs out so you land on your butt so you don't break your legs or get a knee in the face but your crush your spine instead......or you land with your feet and knees together and feet first with a slight turn to one side so that your legs absorb the initial impact and the remaining energy is transfered to a forward motion that you simply roll out resulting in no injuries?

The real issue is that the laws are not enforced. If people new they would loose their license without a doubt if they were drunk driving for any reason (like in germans) then people wouldn't do it. However, I can be hit by a drunk driver who had 5 previous DUI's and it still took my insurance company over 2 years just to get thier money back from him. He also never lost his license.

Not just only 63K but in New York with sky high taxes and living expenses.

Isn't the most transparent government ever great! I loved all those pictures they release on the flyover in New York too!

So you raise taxes which results in people and business leaving the state for states with lower taxes meaning you actually being in less money than before. Or you could lower taxes to attract people and businesses to your state so you tax a whole lot more people businesses and thing meaning you make more money. -there was a man trying selling a pencil on a street corner and when asked how much it cost he said 1 million dollars. When asked why he said, "well, I only have to sell one!"

Okay so let me get this straight.....I must pay for the mistakes of my people I never knew because I am white......by the way there is no one that can be traced back in my family tree that ever owned a slave therefore I should be exempt from such things. But instead I am not. Also, I should be punished and my children should be punished because my parents worked hard and I worked hard to provide for my children? I can't sue someone because thier grandfather got in a fight with my grandfather and broke his nose so I want money for the medical bills even through they are dead and gone but we can sue all white people because some black people were slaves? Lets also remember that correlation does not equal cause. You quote statistics that white people have more but there no proof to link this with slavery or descrimination. There is no proof, only assumptions, that this is because money is passed down to white people. It couldn't be that they think they shouldn't have to work for all these things cause they should be getting reparations of some sort? It couldn't be that they beleive they are entitled to things because someone somewhere in their history must have been a slave. On top of this I HATE to even catagorize black people into such ideas! This is a free country and it is proven over and over that if you work hard you can accomplish anything here no matter what. How can you claim black people are desciminated against to the point they can't make as much or have as much as others when we have a black president (which I, of course, don't like to catagorize him as a black president.....he is the president....what does it matter his color he is still the president!) For goodness sakes people there are different colors of black people. Go to africa and you will see the numerous and dramatically different colors of "black" people. And guess what, to this day they descriminate against eachother because of the country they are from or the color or particular features! We are supposed to live in a free country, that means we should (as wrong as it may be) have the right to desciminate! I have religious beleives that prevent me from working on a sunday morning and the government has a law saying my employer cannot descriminate against me for that and they have to make accommidations for me. Why? Why should my employer not be able to chose not to higher me because of this? Besides I wouldn't want to work for someone who would descriminate against me for that anyways! If we really want to look at slavery and reparations then african americans need to be payed reparations by the tribes that captured them and sold them to "the white man". Reparations should be payed to the black people who were slaves to other black tribes before white people ever came and started buying them. Indians should be payed reparations for being slaves to south africans! Thats where things should start!!

Thanks guys! That chart is great! It wasn't so much that I wanted to go small its just that would open up more option for purchase.... but I am not going to put my safety at risk for more purchase option. I can be patient. I figured I would get some good info and have. Thanks again! Its really appreciated.

Have you ever looked into how those other countries healthcare works? They refuse treatment all the time to people who really need it in order to cut cost! Obama himself admitted that someone like his mother would be refused a hip replacement if she had cancer and was in the hospital!! But since obama is RICH he would pay for his mothers hip replacement! Infact, if the doctors didn't follow the governments rules (performed a procedure they didn't authorize because the government didn't think it was worth it) the would loose thier license! He is modeling his plan after many European countries in which a easily treated desease which can cause blinded goes untreated until people are blind in one eye then the government will only spend enough money to save the other! People have and continue to come from all over the world to this country for treatment because we have the best! beacause we have freedom! Why should obama, or you, or anyone else get to decide what is best for me!!!! We are supposed to be free! That means I should be free to live without health care if I want or free to pay a little to have a little healthcare if I want etc. Its supposed to be my choice. Just because you or obama thinks they know what is best for everyone doesn't mean that everyone should have to do what he or you says! This removes our freedom! This country became the great country it is not by taking peoples freedoms away but because of freedom. This is why people come here. This is why the average home has 2 cars and 3 TV's! The economic experts are now saying that his huge stimulus package has stiffled the recovery of the economy. He is doing the same things done in the great depression which actually made the great depression last longer!!! Look up the study by UCLA on FDR. Obama has tried to demonize freedom by demonizing businesses and "rich" people (obama himself is incredibly rich yet he got rich by living off our tax dollars like all the others in office) who got to where they are with hard work and they pay and employee thousands and thousands of people. Who pays you for your job? A "greedy" rich guy. Who provides you all the amenities you enjoy and make your life easier? A greedy rich guy! (assuming they are really just greedy, maybe they want to help others by providing them jobs and good pay.....surely not...they can only be evil!) If I am just going to pay a different insurance company for a different insurance policy then why can't I just pay that insurance company instead of the government TAKING my money from me. Why does the government always have to be the middle man? I should have the freedom to choose what insurance company I use. When everyone has that freedom then everyone has the power! If an insurance company gets evil and greedy they get sued and people leave them for a different better company. If the government controls our insurance and money they have all the power and control!!!!!!!!!! We no longer have a choice and if they do something wrong they are the house and they always win!! We can't move our plan or money to anyone else because the government is all there is! When has the government truely been trustworthy? What makes people think that politians are not greedy and business owners are? Politians got rich by taking your money where as you give businesses your money in exchange for a product! You don't have to give business your money but you have to give it to the government! This is a classic case of the end justifies the means! They basically say its okay to take away freedoms because its whats best for everyone. (of course what is best for the individual is whats best for everyone....and that is individual freedom.) They do something wrong like take away freedom but they justify it by saying they will provide everyone with healthcare. Its still wrong!!! and a wrong never results in a right!! And why should I have to pay for anyone elses healthcare. This is a free country which means you are free to make the wrong decision. Why should I pay for someone elses poor decision. Of course this also assumes that what I decide is the wrong decision is actually wrong! We are all different. We all live different live and make different decisions. Why should you or anyone else get to decide what is right or wrong for me!!!!! or anyone else! We are supposed to be free to make our own decisions and live with those consequences whether they are good or bad consequences. Why should the good results of my decision be penalized because someone else may bad decisions? Ultimately, this means no one will strive to better themselve because they will just be "punished" with higher taxes and regulations which means there will be no one to tax to pay for the others who have made bad decisions! This is why socialism doesn't work! Look at the other countries that do this. Everyone talks about things being "fair".....well everyone is free to make thier own choices things are fair. Its not fair to take money from those who work hard and give it to those that don't! Its not fair to refuse treatment to people so the government can save money. Fair is everyone having the freedom to make thier own decision and build thier own lives the way they want to. Its not fair for the government to tell me what I should do with my money or determine my healthcare plan or whether I get treatment or not! Sure call me a right wing nut job but history and facts have proven over and over that big government only means less freedom and worse lives for those who live under them! The founders of this country came here to get away from the type of government we currently have and its getting even bigger. You can call us names and try to paint us as evil but it doesn't change the facts and doesn't change whats wrong and right. If someone is hungery should the government take money away from me, keep some for themselves and give some of it to the hungry person? Or should I take that person in and feed them of my own free will? Which is better for a hungry person: For the government to provide for thier need by taking away from everyone else and giving him no reason to provide for himself or for a business to give him a job so he can provide for himself which will give him the ability to also privide for others? Right wing nut jobs like me would give the many a job where are others would make him a victim of the system.... a leach on society. Right wing nut jobs like me would take the time and effort to make him a contributor to society and provide him the means to better HIMSELF! That is what freedom is and how it works!

Thanks! Thats just the kind of response I was looking for....not really what I wanted to hear but we rarely ever hear what we wanted to in life. Thanks for the info and link. Its really helpful!

I am looking into getting my first rig. I weigh 190 so would a 190 sqft canopy be too small for someone with 28 jumps? I know all the consult your instructor stuff.....I am just looking for what the general suggestion is for a first rig. I know that it is suggested that wingloading of 1 for new jumpers but is there that much difference than say 1 and 1.1? Thats about what I would be jumping with the 190 sqft plus the gear. General thoughts please.

How sick is that! To call a man who has killed so many children, no matter what stage they are in, as a hero! "He refused to back down from what he believed in, even though that put his life in danger. he had been shot before in both arms, but didn't let that deter him. I have respect for somebody who continues on standing tall for his legal belief. " Well, that makes men like Hilter, Saddam, Mussolini! Everything they did was legal in thier country! Does that make it okay or right? And how is he sparing children from a horrible death after they are born? If I come kill you in your sleep am I a hero for sparing you a horrible death later in life? to kill is defined as "to deprive of life". Thats what he did! he deprived 60,000 people of life! What a great compasionate man? A hero? Get real!

there is a lot more involved with gitmo than just that. They didn't close it because it takes a bunch of money to do it. Also, he wanted to hold trials in the US for each person and if they weren't convicted they would be given full rights as citizens and released. Who thinks thats a good idea? Obama has borrowed more money in the past 6 months than the government has borrowed in the past 30 years! And who did he borrow it from? The government borrowed it from itself even though they are in debt. How can they lend money they dont have? Basically they created money which will result in huge inflation which will destroy the economy! Its inescapable. He has nationalized two of three of the biggest car producers in the US, 5 of the biggest US banks, and the largest insurance company in the world in nationalized. That is not what america was founded on. Thats no free enterprise. Its socialism and nationalism and if you don't know what happens the economy of countries which do this then learn history and current events. He has put numerous tax frauds in office, one of them wrote the tax code. We are in a financial crisis and he wants to tax everybody on thier carbon out put (cap and trade)....and no, it not just big business! Who pays your salary, who highers millions of people, who donates millions to charities, who provides jobs to people in countries where there are no jobs available? The government? No...big business! For them to remain profitable As for tortue, you can't change the law and go back and prosecute someone for it. It like change the speed limit on a street then fining you for braking that limit a year ago. Also, all these people like that were claiming they didn't know did know about it. They got caught in thier lies and that why it has been dropped! These same people claimed they didn't know about the AIG bonuses when they had put the provision in the stimulus to exempt the bonuses. Most were severance bonuses anyways. They then broke the constitution by taxing specific individuals! They then claimed the fixed the problem by paying the executives 1 dollar an hour. They were already getting that!! Thats why they had the bonuses coming! Besides, if they didn't get the bonuses they are getting less that minimum wage which would be illegal! For goodness sakes the ACORN, which recieved a bunch of stimulus money and is now involved in the census, put a bunch of random people on busses and gave them signs and put them on the front lawns of people from AIG and called the media to see the "protests"! How dare these evil rich people enjoy the money they worked so hard for! How dare they build huge companies which employ thousands and thousands of people! This is supposed to be a free country! It is the freedom to succeed or fail that makes the country great! Obama is socializing medicare. Well, there was a reason that those that could would come to this country for medical care....because it was the best! Not because it was socialized but free enterprise! He is setting it up like the same system used in many European countries where people die because they are refused treatment...where their lives are given a value and if the treatment cost outwieghts thier value they are refused! Is that what we want? Is that true compasion? Obama admitted under his plan that a woman with cancer that was going to die at some point would be refused a hip replacement if she needed it but he, being RICH like he is, would buy his mother that hip replacement. This is actually an admission that his plan is not only heartless but puts a bigger gap between the rich and the poor! Lets not forget that all this hooting and hollering that the rich people are the evil ones is totally hippocritical! All these politicians are millionares!! They have jets and huge homes too......whats the difference? Well, they got rich on your tax dollars but the business guys got rich through hard work! These politicians do little to nothing for society except grapple for more power where as the business men provide products which make your life better or more enjoyable. The politicians are the ones who take from you! You have to pay taxes, you don't have a choice! The business don't take it, you give it in exchange for something! Something you want! History has shown over and over that business does things better than government. Period! Amtrak ring a bell? Did you know there are business owned turnpikes in some states and that they are better quality and traffic flows better and the tolls are cheaper! Why are private schools better than public (this includes colleges)? Because free enterprise works better! If the school is bad you can put your kid in a better one if its private and the bad one looses money and either does better or shuts down. If the public school is bad you don't have a choice, the government says your kid must go to school and must go to school in their district. Under the government you have no control, under free enterprise you have the control! Why should people be rewarded for being irresponsible with thier money? Why should they be rewarded for taking to large of a home loan? It is not a right to have a house! If they chose, and they did have the right to choose, to take a loan bigger than they could handle and they willingly signed the contract then they should be responsible and held to that contract! The bank didn't make them take the loan! How dare those evil banks loan money to someone who agreed to pay it back. How dare they give money to someone so they can have a house when the banks don't have to give anyone money! And why should the responsible and hard working be punished for being responsible and hard working! Is it a valid excuse to say that, basically, obama didn't know what was awaiting him, that he got in office to find that all these things he promised he can't do. No, if he didn't have the experience and knowledge he was not fit for the job! They were lies told to get elected and they all continue to lie to retain thier power. Why else would he government higher a giant PR firm once they got in office? He hasn't kept a single promise, he ignores the constitution and freedom along with the rest of his administration. There is one thing that he said that he is doing. He said he would make a new nation....well he is. However, if I wanted a socialist and nationalist country there are plenty of other countries I could go to, and he could have gone to! We are supposed to be free and if you don't like it then leave!!!!!!!!!! There are plenty of other places for you to go!!! I would leave expect this used to be the only truely free country in the world where as people like obama and those who follow him are taking that freedom away! If you don't want that freedom then go to other countries. There are socialist ones, nationalist one, communist one, marxist ect. but we were the only free one! Thats why people come here and we are loosing that freedom! We have been loosing that freedom but now we are loosing it at light speed! This county is it. There is not another one and are you all so willing to loose it. To change this country into just another socialist/marksist country like so many other? If thats what you want then go to those countries and leave our freedom alone!!!! PS. This administration has also ignored the threat of terrorism ( which they aren't allowed to use that word anymore) and nuclear threats and has recongized its own citizens that don't believe in socialism as a threat for their beliefs! Also, obama want to set up "detainment centers" where he can inprison people the government see as a threat but they haven't actually committed a crime. There would be no trial and no phone call and no lawyers. Just "detained" because you are a threat to the government. What a great leader!

So one guy goes extreme and kills somebody.....that makes every pro-life protester a hypocrit?

This is just one of the many signs of where thinks are actually going. YES WE CAN.....destroy the great country the united states used to be. This is also interesting read: http://www.americandailyreview.com/home-features-articles-blog/2009/4/27/obamas-pakistan-plan-disaster.html

What about the increased rainfall in the mid-west which is causing flooding in areas that don't flood the water is falling so fast and so much? Once again climate changes. We can't stop it or control it. There are places that are deserts that used to be lush and visa versa. Thats how the climate works.

There was a case a while back where a guy was jailed for putting a modified cell phone on a girls car he was stocking. He got caught when he was trying to change the battery. If it wasn't okay for him then why for the police or government. Its my car! What gives them the right to mess with it or attach something to it. Its my property! Oh well....I guess I can finally stock that guy that was eyeing my wife the other night. I just use one of my old phones and modify it as well.