falxori

and that's the main problem. you see Israel's existance as "taunting the gang". if you deny Israel's right to exist, our discussion will go nowhere. sure it does. are you saying that the 1947 borders are still valid after the arabs refused to accept the division plan? are you saying that they can simply reject it, start a war, and after they've lost, claim "oh wait, we want to accept it now"? sorry, it doens't work like that. if you start a war and lose, you pay the price. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you are naive. if a gang beats up your little brother, will you stop protecting him just so you don't risk them being mad at you? you mean during a war that was forced upon it? what do you want Israel to do, apologize for not losing a war it didn't start? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

to what would have happened to Israel if the US didn't use its veto. the automatic majority of the arab/muslim would have turned it into a circus (even more than it is now). are you for real? maybe you were confused by all those resolutions putting the blame on the Palestinians. oh wait... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

what i'm talking about is that the UN is not an unbiased body and its resolutions cannot be taken as fair. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you mean "put on a show trial where the outcome is known no matter what" ? as if the UN is not already obsessed with Israel. too bad it didn't find the time (or will) to spend some more time on places like Ruwanda, Darfur, Sri Lanka, etc. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

doesn't change the point. the only thing the keeps the UNSC from being completely irrelevant is the US vetos that keeps the automatic resolutions against Israel at bay. run a search and see how many times Israel was "put on trial" compared to any (or all) other countries (you can start with the human rights council, where Israel is pretty much the only thing on the agenda). my only point is that saying Israel is "guilty" because the UN says so, is a joke. as for Gaza, show me one example in history where a country kept an open border with a neighbour who has openly declared and waged war against it. just to remind you, Israel is not in Gaza and I'm pretty sure the border would have been open if rockets weren't flying over it. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

oh, I know, I know. it's the country who has an automatic majority against it of 22 arab countries, 56 Islamic countries and usually the 118 Non-Aligned countries. they can pass a resolution that the earth is flat. it doesn't make it true. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

Agreed. the difference is that is the nation of Israel deosn't agree with the government, it will replace it in the next election. We all saw what happened to the in Iran when they tried to demonstrate against the government. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

The nation of Israel elects the government that runs the state of Israel. such are democratic states. your distinction between the two might hold for Iran but it does not hold for Israel. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

your attemps to taint an entire nation based on the idiotic statement of a random nobody is no better than the other threads claiming all Muslims are terrorists etc, they are entitled and they have a legitimate claim over the land. Still, the majority of Israelis believe it would be better to give some of its homeland up for peace. ] I apologize that not enough Israelis were killed. I'm sure Hamas will try harder next time. Cast lead was a just operation following months of constant rocket attacks from Gaza. Palestinian civilians were also hurt because Hamas' strategy is to use them as shields. so yes, if Hamas shoots from it, its an acceptable target. you either don't know enough about the holocaust or you don't really know what's going on between Israel and the Palestinians. if you really can't see the difference between an ongoing land dispute (as ugly as it may be sometimes) and a deliberate and systematic, border-crossing attempt to wipe out an entire nation/race/religion that shows ignorance levels that make any discussion irrelevant. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

maybe but Hitler a head of state who actually did what he said and not a nobody nut who says stupid things. huge difference... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

it's not. you can find a random nut who says anything, anywhere. I have no idea who this guy is but such statements are not acceptable in Israel either. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

yes, those too. but especially those who make mean, unbased accusations like you just did O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

Jewish people in Israel can be idiots as well... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

One doesn't exclude the other. Both Israel and Palestine (so all of the land is included no matter where you want to draw the border) is the homeland of both nations. that is the root of the problem. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

How many Israelis have you actually seen in real life? not many judging from your racist comments. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people but non-jewish citizens (yes, including Israeli arabs) have the exact same rights. the palestinians are no Israeli, they can (and do) vote to the Palestinian Parliment and government. the fact that they voted for a terrorist organization is a whole different story though... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

pretty much, yes, beside tactical considerations, Hamas has historically used everything it had. started with small arms, escelated to morter shells, mines and explosives and then rockets. all of which were openly targeting civilians (somethign they dont even bother to deny). Yes Israel is stronger and it uses a small fraction of it force and although you don't believe me I can tell you that most Israelis have no interest in hurting any Palestinian beside those who actually try to hurt us. the main different between us is that you blame Israel when civilians get hurt, while I blame Hamas for hiding behind them when shooting at Israeli civilians. much much much much more morally superior. not even close to being anywhere near being on the same level. and you can take Israel out of the equation and look at how Hamas treats its own civilians (throwing handcuffed Fattah supporters off roof tops comes to mind...) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

no, Hamas is the guy who hides behind David throwing rocks at Goliath. As always, you can't tell the difference between intentionally and unintentionally hurting someone, so let me ask you this... let's say I have magic bullets. ones that can chase someone specific and hit them and only them. would you agree that the IDF will target those terrorists who fire from family homes or do you still claim that Israel would intentionally target those civilians just for fun? can you say the same for Hammas? they don't even claim otherwise... o "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

Just asked him, he says you're wrong "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

executing families? that's wild even for you... let me use one of the analogies you like so much. a crime is a crime, right? shooting someone is a crime. shooting someone who shot you first is less of a crime. yet again (as always) you take Israel's reaction as the initiative. so let me remind you (again) that Israel was not in Gaza and Hamas kepy launching thousands of rockets at civilian cities to which Israel had to respond. and you keep talking as if Israel has special "Hamas seeking" bullets. it doesn't. when Hamas hides behind families, this is not "executing families" so your little rhetoric tricks simply shows your own heavy bias (which you keep denying...) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

It's going to be a Friday... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

and wikipedia's... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

that's not what I said. I said that one could understand the reasons of AQ just as you understand the reasons of Hamas. AQ is not all about "convert or die" as you say. otherwise how would you explain that most of its victims are muslims? they fight for their way of life and control over the land there. they became violent when foreign nations were present in the area, risking what they believed to be the right way. so no, in my eyes, Hamas and AQ are not the same, but they are not so different either. yet you keep saying the Palestinians were kicked out of their land. don't you set a timeline that fits your view? isn't this land "liberated" if you set the starting date differently? so no, the who was here first debate is useless as both of us are here now. but "being angry" and blowing things up is not justified. by your logic, I have every right to blow some palestinians up as well. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

in order to stick to the original subject... let me just say this: yes, the Palestinians have a legitimate reason to be angry. do they have a legitimate reason to blow people up? you say yes. I say no. in the same way, AQ has a legitimate reason (in their eyes) to be angry because their Pakistani neighbours were not relegious enough (or whatever) and corrupted their way of life. we always talk about different points of view.... I don't see the logic in Palestinians blowing up busses, you do. you don't see the logic in AQ blowing up a mosque, but I'm sure it makes perfect sense to them. "convert or die" might not be logical to you (good for you) but its their logic and they seem to believe it enough to blow up a mosque full of people... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

nowhere in my post did I refer to Germany or WWII. the incident I mentioned were cause by Arabs/Palestinians/Iranians, all very relevant and none has anything to do with the Holocaust or Nazi Germany. so, should I go around killing Palestinians because they took my family house? should my aunt go kill Persians because they've kicked her out of her homeland? and yes, if you ask Al-Qaeda, they will say the Russians and then the Americans invaded their homeland. they will say the current Pakistani government is good enough of a reason to blow up a mosque, so yeah, i don't see a huge difference between them and Hamas. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."