RiggerLee

Some of the most cutting edge designs do not use sliders. A lot of the heavy drop canopies, very large squares, do not use sliders. They are just too big and too complex. Too many cells. The diffrence between cell width and span is too great. Some of them use cutters to stage the opening letting the center spread first and progresively to the out side. This idea is not new it's used in larger rounds as well. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

http://velocitysportswear.com/deluxe-weight-belt.html Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I worked at Quincy as a rigger for eight or nine years. At times there were up to five of us in one trailer working fairly well around the clock. The detritous that was left at the end of the boogie was always amazing. Wag and I would be there on sunday looking at this stuff... Gear bags, free bags, handles, etc. We were always like, "Where did this come from?" I never understood how we could have so many peaces left over. I mean where did that free bag come from? Shouldn't some body be missing that? Were we really that tired? We would just sweep the whole mess into a pile and cary it over to the lost and found. You would be amazed. You could have equiped a small dropzone with the shit left there every year. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm a little confused. how is this a bad thing? The old rule is the more limiting. it's the old rule that forbid you unless... The new rule doesn't even mention it. You don't have to be granted this power. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

This is one of the classic skydiving t-shirts of all time. Some one has approached us about reprinting this peace of history. Does any one know who originally drew the art work for this shirt and where to find them? There is a signature at the bottom but we can not make it out. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

It would be nice if they could agree and stick to a standard. but even then you have to realize that there arestill a lot of variables. The canopy itself shrinks when you sew it ands not by a little bit. It's a noticable change in the area. The inflated area is a whole nother question. There is a fairly large reduction in span width when it inflates and that can vary with the flight mode. One of the nice things about cross braces is the have less destortion in the wing. So I mean how big is it really? Look, it eather flies or it doesn't Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Watch out for too much end play. You can start striking the neadle with the hook. It will get dull, cut thread, skip etc. Race should be tight and smooth. Witch out for chips where dumb asses pried the case out. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

When I started we still had round reserves in our student rigs. A dual canopy out was a nothing event. In some ways I beleave this was the safest system. The only true down sides were the wind restrictions and harder lanpings for bigger jumpers. I've often asked people why they jump an AAD and their answer is always, "What if I get knocked out?" They always look at me like I've got a horn growing out of my head when I ask them if they have a round reserve? The 200 lb guy can not grasp that his 126 will not stand him up on it's own when he's knocked out. I laugh some times. Lee And rounds steer fine. We jump them for fun some times. I've never gotten a disc but I've often landed in the peas. Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I've never needed any of that fancy shit and I've sewn every thing imagionable. I'd go with the singer. The old machines are tanks. Newer machines tend to be shit. Some of them even have plastic gears. I've got four 112/212 up on tables now and have about another dozen heads here. I'll sell you one right now. What gage do you want? Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I love packing softies. But I did see a problem with them once. A rig came in at Quincy.A Softy. It must have gotten wet. All the lines on the diper absorbed all the water and held it. The fabric of the diper must have been some kind of pollycotton. It totaly rotted. I mean it just wasn't there any more. There was nothing but mildew. It could use an all nilon diper. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I've seen them give extremely good service to people. I remember early on when they had a recall. They tracked this guy down on the phone. Once he confirmed that he was the owner they said that they were shipping him a whole new unit. He hadn't even heard of the problem much less sent his unit in. They simply asked that he return the first unit when he got a chance. That is not bad service. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I remember that. I was talking to Bland about that. He was very interested in that at the time. It was aparently pretty spectacular. But to answer your question, No. No one remembers that. I've never had a pilot express any interest or concern when I raised the question of the size or strength of his FAA mandated seat cusion. None of them ever beleave that they will ever have to use it. I really wasn't all that surprised when that phantom blew up. No one seems to respect wingloading or air speed now a days. I'm surprised we haven't seen more problems in skydiving with all the free flying. I mean there's been a few failures but they've mostly been brushed over. With an average life span of 5 years skydiveing has a very short memory. I wonder sometimes what it will take to get people to beguin to act a bit more rationally about their gear. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Lets be honest here, they're pilots. Their only priorities are that it: 1. Fit in the plane. 2. Not be too lumpy to sit on. 3. Be cheeper then dirt. 4. That someone withen 100 miles will sign it off once a year so that they can pass a ramp check during the season. Good luck convenceing them of the importance of any thing else. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

On this last one did the containor have RW7 or RW8 rings? Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

What I saw was a little bit diffrent. The tape holding the RW4 ring snaped. I have to admit I do not recal which side it was. I also know someone that broke a front risor above/at the confluence wrap. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

The issues I was thinking of was with coard wise nilon tapes in the bottom seam of the canopy. They actually shrank enough to distort the airfoil. Then again they were already haveing problems with that design to begin with. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Historicly there has been some problems with tape shrinkage in a few designs. The Safier is not exactly a super high performance canopy. I can't imagion you haveing those kinds of problems with it. As long as you get the salt washed out of it you'll be fine. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

There's a much simpiler issue here. It's an alteration to the harness. Unless this modifacation has been approved by the manufactorer or FSDO and signed off by a master rigger then the TSO is dead. You have a very nice climbing harness, Sex swing, wall ornament, etc. Wait, climbing harnesses have some kind of cert. Sorry it's just a sex swing. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

There is wear during packing. The millatary did a study of packing surfaces. Every thing from grass to concreat, wood, blue tarps, etc. I don't remember where to find it and exactly what they were measuring, probably perosity. Oddly what they found to be the best surface was concreat. Smooth painted concreat like a really nice hanger floor. They could sweep it very clean and they were not getting damage from the fibors of the carpet picking the fabric of the canopy. One of the worst was a blue tarp. It was ok when it was new but as soom as it wore the little fibors would become very abrasive. In any case the point is that there is a fair bit of wear even just from packing over time. The two real questions are does this actually effect the porfomance, the answer being diffrent for diffrent canopies, and is there some wild card out there that might destroy the structural integraty. Lee Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

You've got me curious. I've been looking around and I'm having trouble finding data on the half life of nylon. I think part of the problem is I'm not smart enough to reconise the articals I need when I see them. Poynters has numbers from a study of old 24' twills. They were showing the tensile strength in warp at 79% fill 61.6% tear warp 51% fill 38.5% lines 68.4% and oddly, if I'm reading this right, the porosity went down to 73.5% of the original. This is after what they classified as "some use" 25 years later. Now it's an old twill POS a totally diffrent fabric with diffrent finnishing methods etc. but it does seem a little disturbing. They were actually useing it as an argument in favior keeping it in service. The argument was that it would still, in theory, meet the shock values of the low speed cat. 40% lower then standard cat. That's more a testament to how some of the older canopies were over built then to the durability of parachutes. I think it's safe to say that modern canopies do not have that much of a margion for error perticuarly at the speeds we fall at today. P 2 just reprints the same chart but then they say that nylon is not detearerated by age only wear. They state that 40 year old nylon will test as strong as the original specs. Storie, the rigger I'd spoken to before is out of town so I can't get ahold of him for another week. Is any one fermilior with a report suggesting that nylon over 25 years old can experence sudden rappid detereration in strength bassed on age alone? I can't find it. On a more practical note, would PD care to share what they have found with their monitoring program? I'm sure they're out there lissening. That's as good example of a study of modern canopies at there "mid life" as we have. Strong should also have some data by now with all the tandoms they've pulled into the shop. I concidder that in a whole nother cat. but it would still be interesting. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Wow, a problem I've never encountered before. Must be a one in a thousand canopy. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I don't think any one here will contest that that was a pretty good booboo you cought. I don't think any one here will deny that continuing education and awareness are important issues. You don't want to say it, fine, I will. A pop top with a cypres is a cluster fuck. Packing it is more complex. No way around it. You can screw it up. This is some thing people should pay more attention to. You have also taken some other stances here. Let me make this clear, I'm not on your side of the argument right now but I am lissening. This is a tecnical groop. All you have to do is convence us. I and others would like to hear the data you are baseing this on. PD and Aerodynes stance are well known. I do not recall and could not find on their web site in the manuals a lifetime on FFE canopies. Have all of you checked out there new high speed deployment system? I haven't seen any of them around here yet. I'm haveing trouble with the PDF link. That is again some thing I don't deal with on a regular bases. Maybe you could repost some of that here. It would seem that PIA has in fact not taken a stand on this. I would like to hear any tecnical arguments from PIA that you might be refering to. If there is evedence for a time deteareation of nilon I and others would like to hear more about it. As to PD, I'm trying to remember when they really started to build sport reserves? I'm wondering about the timeing and the climant at the time? In the mid to late eighties there was a lot of talk about perosity becouse people were putting old worn out Ravens that had been jumped as mains in reserves. There were some low cutaways that ended in fatalities. I'm wondering if that was the time frame when they wrote that requirement into their rules. Now I think it's a fine idea to track these things and an exalent oppertunity to gather some data on the ageing of canopies under normal wear over time. They should be acumulateing some date now. Do you know what percentage they are returning to service? Have they been doing any retesting of reserves that were below there min? Has it shown a higher failure rate? Or have they failed to continue to meat the spec's of the TSO? Inquireing minds want to know. Have you seen there numbers on this or better yet could they publish them? As GPI/FCI has not seen fit to put a life span on there reserve I do not see where the lack of a history on the canopy is in any way relavent. I can see no reason to ground it on any reason other then condition. If you want to make that statement then justafy it. How does the loss of a card make the rig illeagal to ever pack again? If it's a question of age then make an argument for extending the decisions of one manufactorer to a compleatly unrelated product. We're lissening but you'll have to make more then just some broad statement. The people on this board are just a little too sophisticated for that. You'll have to explaine. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Nice catch. I'm not serprised it was missed at sereral drop zones during the gear check. We've been pushing to make sure that a rigger does the gear check when people arrive to fill out the waver. Even then there are some that are a lot more maticulas then others. In the past I've seen it handaled by the little girles at the counter who were not even sky divers. It's an issue. It tends to get passed over in a very casual way. Often the people have ten other things to do and rarely do they seem to reallize the importants of it. It opens up all kinds of liability for the drop zone and the pilot. On the other issues of age and a lack of history. I was talking to another rigger in the area recently about this. He has in fact adopted a twenty year rule. It's a choice he has made that he will not service gear older then that. He was citeing research that suggested a drop off in strength around that time independent of UV, temp, or other factores. If any one has a copy I'd like to see the data on this. Now the FAA hasn't taken any stand on this. I know of a few manufactorers that have volentaroly placed a twenty year life span on there own products. Most noteably Buttler and National. Strong has rules on recertifacation on it's tandom gear. We're starting to come up on the 40/25 rule on PD reserves. It's been a while but the last time I talked to some one from there I was told that they were fairly happy with the condition of the canopies comeing into the shop and were able to return the majority of them to service. It' been a couple of years does any one know how those statistics are adding up? To the best of my knowlage GPI and FCI have never seen fit to put a life span or pack/ride tracking requirments on there equipment like PD has done. I don't think there is any leagle reason to ground the rig on that bases. The fact that there is no history or old cards is a little annoying but it doesn't nesasaraly make the rig unairworthy. If he just put it togather he may not have gotten the old cards along with the canopy. Or some one may have been pencil whipping the thing for so long that they were embarosed to hand the card to a rigger. Or it may have just been lost. When you sign it off you are your self certifing it to be airworthy. Nothing in the past matters. The only cards you actually have to keep with the rig are those that show complience with SB and AD. Other wise you are responcable for seeing to it that the rig is in compliance with them your self and signing them off again your self. I'm not saying it's good practice, in fact it pisses me off, but in theory as there is no tracking requirment on this canopy you can just chunk the old cards. It's a little bit dangerous to start talking about mandatory service lifes of TSO'ed gear. I don't really like the presedent. My airplane was built in 69. Should I just throw it away as well. Aluminiom has as much of an issue with metal fateague as nilon has with age. We've opporated for many a long year on the idea of condition being the bases of airworthiness. At least that's how I was raised. Maybe I'm paranoid but I tend to feel that part of the push towards this is a wish by the manufactores to limit liability. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

You talk alot about some of these short courses. I think you'll find that a longer slower appentaceship like what you are proposeing is more commen then you think. In fact traditionally that is the way it has been done. Not just in rigging but for pilots and macanics. The whole FAA standard is built around the idea of a mentor takeing a student under his wing where he learns his "craft" under the guidence of this instructor. I'm trying to remember when DeWolf started running his shake and bake course. I don't know exactly when people started to realize that you could teoreticaly cram all the specified requirments into about ten days. I don't think it was that much of a problem becouse I don't beleave any one walked out of there with any illusions that they had more then a student lissons. Over the years a number of people have decided to open there own little rigging schools. The Idea developed that you could make money off of this by selling people there ticket. I'm not saying that they did not meat the requirements I'm just commenting on motovations. Now these people are out there trying to fill courses. They're waveing there arms around. That's why you see them. Some times they make it seem that there course is the only way to get your ticket. That's not true. In fact I think they are still in the minority. Of all the riggers we have around here only one is from a "quick" course. And he's not bad. Coming along nicely. Every one else was mentored. The fastest I've seen got her ticket in about five months. I worked in a loft for a couple of years before I took my test. Now I used to work at Quincy with Wag. I do admit that I have seen some scarry things show up in that trailor from some of the more out of the way corners of the country. If I was you I would worry less about how people are initally trained and more about how they work afterwards. The biggest problems seem to come from people that end up working in isolation. People that get left behind. If any thing I'd like to see more continueing education. On the whole thoue I think you'll find the standards in the industry to be very high. I think there are other greater wories out there. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

What do you think of the litness paper idea? I didn't get any responces to that thought. Do you think it has any marit? Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com