RiggerLee

The term for what happens when that goes wrong is Lock Out. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Yep, done it. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I was spitting over edge but it was basicly in wind shadow. There was no drift for as far as I could see it. I through some flat chunks of snow basicly the same result. The wind did not start till about 1000 ft. I mean it was a servear wind shear. It was a warm wind blowing down off the island being funelled through the fiord. Wind at the top was about 15 and all indecations I had was that it was the same down in the bottom. The snow was well baked and the wind which had started in the last six hours, probbable caused by a pressure system moveing in to the area, had not started to pick up any snow yet. Note the horse tailes in the sky. I knew the weather window was closeing but actually expected it to be better down in the bottom. As it turns out the wind was blowing from the bottom up rather then the top down. I'm actually glad I made it back to camp. If I'd walked down I'm not sure the tent would have still been there when I arrived. It was no small task to keep the thing tied down as all the snow melted around it in the warm wind. In the end it was being held down by my only ice screw and tools hamerd into the ice. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

The gust were running about 70 mph. Note the time I was blown over. Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Oh, another thing. I noticed some one rated one of the videos 5 star on youtube. Lets not do that. I don't know if it can be searched that way or what, I don't know much about that site, but I posted it in the most obscure and boring way I could think of hopeing it would not get too much traffic. So lets just try to leave it as annomus as we can. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Ok, this is it. The infamis jump three from last year. I don''t know if I'm helping my case or ruining it. I've just about given up corting people to come with this year so fuck you all. Looks like I'll be soloing it again this year. But what else is new. Been there Done that, a couple of times. So here it is. This is what it's really like up there. In any case here is the story. I'd been pinned down with shitty weather for about six days. Then every thing cleared up and became beutiful. Clear skys with out a cloud to be seen, dead calm. I pulled the rest of the way to the cliff. I set up the tent and had to crash for a few houres. I startedd humping early in the day. Great day but I wish it was colder. as the sun swung around it became rather warm and the snow soft. this had been the leyward side during the last storm and the new snow was rather soft. It took longer then I expected to reach the top and it was farther across and more to the right then I'd expected. I got to the exit point about 12:30. There were horse tails in the sky by then. but it was still light. I poked around and started filming. as I did the wind began to pick up. I cleand up the rig and by the time I was ready it had picked up to about ten with gust to 15. I playedd the lull game for a while. It really was not bad but I played the lull game for a while trying to judge what it was doing. There ware sign that my weather winddow was closeing but it honestly was not that bad with a fairly clean wall, the ability to open high and get out into clean air and a nice seven mile wide landing area. Or at least that is what I told my self. Here is where the vid gets fun. First I must appologise. This is what happens when you hand a really nicce camera to some one that's never owned one in his life. It's as bad as you would think. second be advised that the first view is from a camera straped to my hip not my head. keep that in mind as you watch what comes next. Pay attention to where the edge is. Yes this is where I triped. Watch the edge as I stand back up. The second view is from a belly mount faceing down. Same footage over again. again watch where the edge is when I stand up. It was a nice view over the edge. It was very cool the way the large alpine rig which is rather top heavy was trying to roll me over the belly mount over the cliff edge. Try no to hurt your self laughing. ya ya, get it out of your system. The second half is the jump. This is even better. The wind is steady at about 15 now but I really really did not want to walk back down. And honestly it was not unreasonable. I had nothig that I could look at below me like water of trees that could have given me any warning of what was to come. I remember the moment when I reallized how fucked I was and looking back up at the exit point wishing there was some way I could get back up there. Let me back up for a moment and explain some things. The first camera again is on my hip. It was just straped there and got turned crooked. So the picture is cattiewompus by about 30 degres. Sorry I suck, but it does give you a good idea of what is level to the horizon. It is straped to my hip not my head. When you see it tilt that is thewhole canopy and body swinging under neath it. I did have about a ninty left. A risor was lose and I jumped any way. I really need to rework the cover on that rig. So I really was not surprised when it happened. The Flick turnedd back even with the break unstowed. Yeh I probable should have taken the time to unstow the other but I'm just a grab it and hork kind of guy. I have to say I really likedd that Fick. It was surpriseingly responsive for such a larg canopy, 266. I thought i would have been a slugish dog but it's nice. Every thing is cool for a while then I hit the shear layer. The wind had not been blowing above me and comeing down it was blowing below me and come ing up. When I started to hit the wind the tubulance was terrable. Whatch the horizon. I'm not doing shit. Thats the wind. You'll see the corner of the canopy as it almost stalls and dives in front of me. It rocks bad all over the place and one gust carries it off to the side and down level with the horizon. No shit this is in open air. I've never seen any thing like it. Wind shear like you would never beleave. I head away from the wall just trying to get as clean as I can. I turn into the wind early fearing a collaps down low. Once I touch down the fun begins. There it one point where I think I rolled over on my back. Second view of the same shit is fromm a downwards faceing belly cam. I turn the thing up to face me briefly then I get the idea to point it forward. I did it just on the sper of th moment. I fucked up and pointed it up side down. Give me a break. it was in a box and I could not see the camera and which way it was faceing. This one is also a little off level. So sue me I suck. This one is great. you can see even more of the canopy as it is ripped off to the side by one of the big gust. The drag video is even better. I didn''t have a cut away. I started hauling in on a line and got it down till the cascade stuck in the ring. I actually wrapped it aroundd my foot to pull it down further. No shit it didn't stop dragging me till I got ahold of the fabric of the tail and crawled on top of it. Let me say again that through all of this the Flick stayedd inflated and square. it never folded on me when by all rights I should be deader then shit. That thing is a tank. Keep the volume turnedd up I did my best to keep up a comentary during what I assumed would be my last moments of life. Then you see me pick up one of the cameras. That time doesn't really show the wind very well but trust me it was blowing. You'll see a clip that is just looking at a bunch of fabric. Lessen. You'll hear a crunch and then me curse. that is me being blown over by a gust of wind. Finally Youll see me pick up the last of the cameras and turn it off. This picture sucks on this web site but look at the jacket and it shoulld give you an idea of the wind. And just for the record let me reiterate, "I recamend against BASE jumping in winds in excess of fifty miles an hour, it is not for the faint of heart." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW96QzsImTg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84KVstfZDYQ And if any one has any comments on how to make this video thing work better let me know. I'm not a geek and I'm lost. Lee Check out the new web site: www.velocitysportswear.com [email protected] Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

NO. And lets not discuss this over the internet any more or whats the point. The whole idea is people do not and can recanise it. There was a time when you could through a rig over your shoulders tuck the leg straps up out of the way and just walk in any where. Why do you think we have covers over our three rings? That used to be all you needed. I don't know why we bother now. their really in the way. But now thanks to all the meadia hogs and fuckers blabing on sites like this we have to build all of our secret shit. Which will remain TOP FUCKING SECRET. Maybe you little shits should learn how to sew. I don't know why more people don't. The things you can build... the base rigs, climbing shit, hell the sex toys alone justify the effort to learn. It really sucks that now all you have to do to be a base jumper is throw down a CC. I've got a 5000 sqr foot shop with a big cutting table and full of sewing machines. I was thinking about gearing up to build base rigs again but a trip to Perrion and the last Turkey Boogie made me stop and think again. That and the fact that the people that were aproaching me for rigs and training were not people I wanted to sell to. In short we've moved on to diffrent projects. I just don't feel like being a base rig manufacterer right now. I didn't mean to get up on this soap box but we really should drop this line of descusion. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I know of at least one incedent where a rig was taken inside from the cold and condensation formed on the rig. It was an f111 pilot chute and when he took the rig back out into the cold the condensation that had formedon the boc froze glueing the pc in place. It could not be broken in shear. The rig had never been alowed to warm all the way up to room temp. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

it't the exit point on the very top of Scott Wall. It's a nice flat runoff. It sticks out like a diveing board. Sorry I can't post a decent sht here. Stupid rules. If you have an e-mail acount that will take a big file I'll try to send it to you so you can get it printed. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Your thinking of the "StealthRig". That's totaly diffrent. Some people know that I have one of those as well. They've asked me to see it. let me put it this way. I've sent base jumpers, base jumpers mind you, out to my car with spicific instructions. "It is on the floor of the back seat behind the drivers seat.", etc. They came back to tell me that there was nothing there. That they had searched the whole car and there was no base rig in the car. Thats how good it is. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

These are from last year. I should have a coulpe of self portrates from a little pocket camera from the second trip in the slides. I remember them being better but dig them out and get them scanned. Lee By the way you'll notice I'm jumping a 266 Flick that Jimmy was kind enough to loan me for the trip in these pics. I'd just like to say that I found it to be a very nice canopy and thought very highly of it eaven if the damn thing did say Apex on the bottom of it. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

That would sound rational and it might work if rationality had any thing to do with it. Don't forget that there has been a pressident for a yearly permit in place for... how many years has bridge day been going on? The truth is reason has nothing to do with this. It's like an old timey fewed. One of those they think might go back to the cival war but it's been so long that no one really remembers any more. Most of the real arguments faded away and became irrelavent years ago. They just hate us because they hate us. They persocute us just on princable simple because it's the right thing to do. It's like the lake Powel thing. We really couldn't have a better case and the judge just looked at it all nodded his head that we were right and then sided with the NPS any way. I remember rideing the buss in Zion. The "Big Atraction" was when they stoped and tryed to point out a pair of climbers on one of the walls. You could just make out two specks and the haul bag and I knew what I was looking for. The next bigest attraction was trying to spot a porkypine that was in a tree along the road. I remember thinking about the Lysebotin Ferry and how the base jumpers were the big attraction. Better then the captians goat imatation as the first mate tossed them some food. Imagion a load of jumpers landing on the sand bar three times a day. for all the tourest. Even Money wont help with this. The only chance is to out live it. Our only hope is to hold out till all those people die or retire. We may have to wait till all the people they have raised die or retire. The one real danger is that they will pass a law specificly against base jumping. In one way that was a good thing about Powel. If they had won there is a real danger that they would have out lawed it out right. Notice the efforts to change the wording of there regulations. If they'd been a little smarter with how they had written it we'd be out for good. Just the fact that they tryed should show you that the emnity is still alive and well. Honestly I'd guess we have at least ten more years before we have a chance. Probbably more. It's a shame Powel came along when it did in a few more years it might have had a chance. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

While I was at it there have been some questions about gear. A guy asked to see some pics of the infamis Alpine Rig. I finaly went by the house and picked it up. It took even longer to learn how to take pics of it with my video camera and put them on computer. I'm tecnologicaly challenged. I finally got them to him and while I was at it thought to stick them on here. I know it looks a bit confuseing so I'll try to describe. Main tray is in the bottom. There is a good sized compartment between there and your lower back. Access from zippers on eather side. It's almost 4in thick and wraps forward around your hips. The BOC is on a compression flap that squizes it down so it is always tight and at the base of your back. The upper compartment is large and extends above the hight of your shoulders. It has an internal frame that transfers the load to the waist belt and load levelers that take the weight off your shoulders. There is a pocket for a foam pad that runs down the back and holds a section of Z Rest. The MLW is on the out side of this. and runs down behind the lumbar pad where it can tuck away. The leg straps tuck away there when you hike. There is a reinforced compartment for your crampons on the back and a snow shovel flap on top of it to help keep them from pokeing things. The compression straps run under loops to help keep you tieing down your risors. The risor covers run along the back sides of the rig and are shallow so they are not cought under the corners of the main tray. The tray fully opens at the bottom corners. The ice tools fit in reinforced tubes running down the sides of the rig. There are gear loops for a little climbing shit on the sides. Sorry I frogot to take any pics of the top knot. Yes it is every bit as scarry as it looks. It is no shit black fucking death and feels like a tandom on your back. Exiting with it can be challanging. And yes I have jumped it. This is what I took on the last two trips up north. You can say I'm insane. You can say I'm suasidal. You can NOT say that I can not sew. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm getting down to the dregs of what I have scaned. If this continues I'll have to take more of my slides in and pay the blood money to have them put on the computer. Most of this is just sceanery shit. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I've got mixed feelings on the other subject. Aveation on the whole has done pretty well with their record. You can say that we've been hamstringed and it's true but honestly the biggest problems have been from liability. Now if you look at some of the other disaplins that were never really regulated you'll find a diffrent story. If all you've seen is skydiveing you'll have a squewed perspective. And base did come from skydiveing. Some of the most critical tecnologies and designs were stolen blatently from established rigs and harness designs. There was also an established tradition of... Quality and responceability. For the most part they were already riggers, or they had worked for manufactures or in lofts. So there was kind of a structure and a lot of it transferd over with the experence and tecnology. If you have ever been around ultralights or hang gliders you would have seen a very diffrent picture. It's gotten a lot better. Things are way way better then they used to be but I still see some scarry shit. I mean just black fucking death looking for a place to happen. And some really ignorant people looking for a way to die. Don't get me wrong there are some truly sharp guys out there as well. But if you think back there was a time when ultralights were scarry as shit. Wings snapping like twigs, stability problems, really bad construction, and don't even get started on the engions. Hang gliders can be almost as bad and some of those guys treat there gear like shit. No respect for what saves there life. Paragliders are getting really good but they started out pretty damn scarry as well. They still under build some of there shit. All of these sports have killed larg numbers of there pertisapents. I used to be like the rest of you, "Damn the FAA" and all that. Over the years I've come to reallize that we could have done a lot worse. The FAA is not the worst goverment office out there. Not even close. The truth is we have been really lucky in this country. In the end it's probably for the best that they have kept there fingers in even to the very small extent that they have. I'm honestly not sure there would still be any skydiving if it had just been left unregulated. There is a real chance we would have been out lawed or regulated out of exestance with out the USPA and the FAA. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Stand tall and be proud. You are rappedly becomeing a real base jumper. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Thats right I'm going to make you look at even more pictures. I supose you don't have to look, but that would mean you have far more self control then I do. Now I'll stop this if you will all just buy plane tickets for this spring. If you continue to resist this will just get worse. I have thousands of slides. Don't make me post the video. Don't make me, don't make me do it! Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

That's the mountian at the end of Sellim island in Scott inlet. It's the tip of the peninsala that forms a great bay. It holds one of the niceest camp sites around. It's one of the traditional camp sites of the Inuet. Before the goverment decided to concentrate them into towns for there own good they used to live a simi nomadic life stile moveing from seasonal camps. Now they are stuck in a town a hundred miles from the game. Since the world decided that seal fur was some how evil and decided that no one else should ever be able to buy it eather they passed laws destroying the fur trade. Now they have no way to pay the cash money to suport there snowmobills and can no longer suport there families. There is nolonger any type of economy and the traditional skills are disapearing not being passed on. but thats enough of a tiraid, stepping off the soap box. I'm trying to remember how tall it is. I want to say it's in the 4000 ft range. That is the out faceing wall in the fiord. The back side is far less steep. You wouldn't guess the out side would be so spectacular. In truth it's not the best wall around You might be able to find a nice exit point in the middle of that hollow on the face where you could get going. I don't think you could out track that first big ledge with out a wing suit. Honestly I included it here as just a pritty picture of what the seanery is like up there. There are much nicer walls around. By the way, to the best of my knowlage it has never been climbed. There are good odds that not only has it never been jumped but that no human being has ever sat foot on top of it. But that's not unusual for up there. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Never hought about that. I can't down hill to save my life. To me they're just big snow shoes. Nice for crossing leads though. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

There are with out a doubt far easier and cheeper cliffs you can do. The only responce I have is that it is becomeing progresively more difacult to find 5000 foot virgins in the continental U.S. I guess it's just a matter of taist. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I'll startby refring you to the last post on the other thread "hit list". Send me a list of questions and I'll try to answer them. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

i'm tired so I'm going to cheat and paist some things togather from a couple of e-mails. It may be a bit in coharent. I'm down in Dallas. Just got back from shooting the Black Water demo team jumping into the Armed Forces Bowl foot ball game. I would not even concider mailing my camera up there. Those are the things that you'll have to cary. Just plan on spending a couple hundred dollars on extra baggage. The harness and rope are fine. The things you might need to buy or borrow are: Crampons, ice axe or tool, high altitude plastic mountianearing boots, warm synthetic bag, etc. A lot of the things you probable have or can borrow. Here I'll try to find a list of stuff from another e-mail. Gear, To be honest that's secondary to knowing how to use it. They fact that you have to ask means your a bit behind the power curve. In any case here is a list just keep in mind that throwing down a CC might be enough to get you up there but it may not be enough to get you back alive. If you buy this stuff you need to pack it up and head to CO and start useing it. List of shit: Tent four season with good tie downs and a good high vestabule. this you can share with another jumper. example: North Face Mountian 25 $400 High altitude plastic Mountianearing boots. example: Yellow Koflacs Artic Exp? $350 Several pairs of socks example: Smart Wool Mountianearing Good synthetic bag at least 0 -15 if you want to be cozy.example Mountian Hardwear 4th demention $350 Bivi bag in case you get stuck. Cheep synthetic or down. The main thing is small enough to jump. At least +15 degrees. You could go warmer but you will be missrobal Shitty REI 35 degree for $100 Some kind of bivi bag cover example dryloft sleeping bag cover. $100 Gaters Wind stoper gloves $30 Mit Shells and liners $60 Balaclova $20 Wind stopper hat $30 Liquid fuel stove you should probable have one of your own and spare parts MSR Dragon Fly $100 Foam pad 3/4 in ridge rest better to have two or 1 1/2 Good Long under wear top and bottom say two sets Good Fleace top and bottom $60 to $100 each Gortex or cheeper eqv pants with zippers to go over boots. Shell jacket. Wind breaker, $60 or Fancy stupid over priced gortex shit that you will sweat your ass off in for $400+ crampons, flat point, example S-12 $60 Axe of some type keeping in mind that you will have to jump with it $40 to $160 for a tool Harnes $40 a few beaners, rapel, etc $50 to $200 depending on what you can get by with and how fancy you want. Rope If we want to do some of the more tec sites. Probable about one half rope apeace or one for two. about $130 Glacer glasses $100 Sled one for every two people $400 Or cheep toy sled for a fraction of the price. Poles $60 Camp chair. $40 I could probable go on but those are the things that come to mind. Big items at least. but before you go out and buy any of this shit first buy the old Bible, Mountianearing Freedom of the Hills and read it. Then buy what little you can as you can and go live in the snow on top of a forteener. That is when you will start to figure this stuff out. Thats when you will start to figure out what you need and what you use. Spring is the time to be up there. March is still black night and cold. Mid April till the end of may is the best time to be there. If you get too far into June it starts to get rather hot. A lot of stuff starts to come down. It's just not refreazing at "night". Ice seasons vary but you can generaly count on it through mid to late june. Travel with a heavy komotic may be epic late in the season. Best bet is May At least three weeks, better a month. I'd bee up for six late April through early June. I'd like to see who is serious about going before trying to set dates. Travel: I fly to Ottawa for about 600 plus baggage. Ottawa to Clyde was 2000 US last year. Last year the snowmobil was 1000 us round trip. Best to ship food and heavy stuff up by mail in advance. Allow 8 weeks to be safe. No shit there is a back log and you are last on the list. From europe you might try to get a flight in to Iqaluit but from there you are stuck on first air. When you get a chance you might tell me a bit of your story and send a list of questions I'll be happy to answer them I don't know you. I'd love to have some people come with me this year but I wont bull shit you this trip is not for every one You might want to think carefully as to whether you are really down for a trip like this. What I can tell you is that better base jumpers then you have declined. A snow mobile is tricky. If there is one that will start then some one is probable out running it. They only last for about a season and a half. Two years if your lucky. That why the guiding price is so high. Unless you're willing to wait till spring and have it shipped up on the one boat a year in late augest/september then you'll have to pay through the ass to have it flown up. You could have a guide stay a couple of days when he drops us off and come a couple of days early when he picks us up. They will be out in the area from time to time as well. He might be able to run you around then. At the minimum your looking at a couple hundred a day. Remember he needs to be bringing another cliant out and has a very short season to make all the cash money he will see for a year. If you are flexable and can arange a time when he does not have other work waiting for him they would be a lot more aimeable to some thing like that. The distances are so big that you just about need transport to get really good pictures. But if you get them... let's just say not every one has those shots. antother e-mail: Levi is running an out fitting service there now. He took shipment of all my food. Be careful how you lable things. Comercal shipments get taxed hard. Put any thing you ship in some old box and mark it as your personal stuff for your personal trip. Do not have some company for example drop ship you a rope in a brand new box marked as a sell. You gona come play again this year? What are your plans? Levi Palituq PO Box 99, house 232 Clyde River, Nunavut XOA OEO Canada [email protected] In march you can see -35 at night and that is still black nights. By mid April your looking at -15 for a low. Ofical 24 in Clyde is some where around May 10th I think. But by mid April it will never be darker then twilight. Still has a good bit of cycle about -15 to +15. By May things are getting warmer. you'll see about -5 at the begining. by mid may lows might be like +10. By the end of May you'll just barly be freezing at night if your lucky. June is warm and you can nolonger depend on a freeze cycle when things go into shadow. A lo of wet stuff starts commeing down. You'll be sking along in your long underware just trying not to get sun burned. I'm talking +65. all of these are in F and my best guess based on memory. Plane Ticket are one of the big ones. I think I payed $650 to Ottawa but from there you are stuck on first air. It was $2000 from there to Clyde. about another $500 total for excess baggage. The snowmobill was $1000 round trip last year. I'm about to crash. I'll reread his and may try to make it more coharent tomarow. Lee Quote Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Yes, I'm going to continue to torture you with these thing till some body gives in and comes with me. It's going to be every bit as bad as when you had to sit through the slides of your inlaws vacation. And I'm not going to stop till I catch my self a fish or they ban my ass. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

You may be a little off base with this one. People are not lineing up to go up there. Trust me on this. I've been trying despratly to find people to come with me. It's become kind of a yearly ritual. I don't know how many times I've tracked people down calling them out of the blue asking them if they want to go this year. It's the same shit every year. I make the rounds calling every one I know that might be even vagely interested. It's always the same thing, no money, no time, too cold, are you fucking crazy? I wouldn't be here doing this if I wasn't out of options. I'm honestly not trying to rub any bodys nose in this. I don't think we know each other. I'm normaly a rather private person. I don't normaly go around waveing my own flag. I guess that's why I feel a little defencive. I'm a bit uncomterble doing it. I guess I'm feeling a bit guilty. As to you mere mortals... All I can say is put up or shut up. I wish you could see me. My emince stature, my grand presence, a greek god come to life. Tom hates going out with me becouse I get all the women. The truth is that I'm a short, ugle, unplesent little bastard, with a small pecker that couldn't get laid even if I was a millionare in a whore houes. And I'm not rich but I made it happen. Not once but three times. I'm not in great shape but I don't stop till I get there. I'm at best a meadeocer climber but I've bullied my way to the top of a lot of objects. In short there is absolutly nothing specal about me. The only diffrence is I bought the tickets and I went. I don't want to say that any one could do it, but any one could prepare to do it. There is a slight but important diffrence there. A lot of you could do this. It's mostly just a matter of will. As for you... in case you didn't notice this is a cattle call. I don't want to say that it's an open invatation but it is an invatation. You could be there jumping all those cliffs this spring. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I like the way the sun lights up the cloud at 1000 feet across the fiord from you. Some of the panoramics with the fin bracketing the frame on one side are nice and thats a great pic of the profile of Kigut just before it goes out of sight. I see they let you pack in the loby of the school. What did te kids think of all that? It's good to see that he did get his baloon up. How did that thing work out as a chase vehical? is that six wheels or eight? Did you ship that and the balloon up there by boat over the summer? How many flights did he get? Come on give. I never got to hear the details. One of these days we really do need to sit down and swap stories. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com