baronn

Paul is da Man! That roll up door on the 182 was amazing

Paul is da Man! That roll up door on the 192 was amazing

Clearly a ;one;y person. His name isn't Pat by chance?

I have. Only raises more questions for me. The biggie here is, did the USPA issue tandem certs that were sent in from an examiner that had his rating pulled? The thread "So you think you're a TI?" answers a few more than the USPA notice did. The USPA takes this action and yanks 140 TI's ratings and forces them to get re-certified. I guess guilty before a full investigation is complete is the USPA way. Seems odd this action has never happened in the past. Unusual circumstances here? No doubt. Is this the right action? Guess the lawyers will find out. Gonna be a Shitstorm for sure....

Did you read this? It's useless. The USPA wants to charge 100-200 for an STC to just REMOVE the door. Doesn't cover an inflight door. Aircraft Modifications Jump plane modifications that are not specifically described in the Aircraft Flight Manual must be accomplished by FAA issuance of either a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) or a Field Approval. For $100 ($200 for non-members), USPA sells STCs for jump conversions of original and early model Cessna 170, 172, 180, and 182 aircraft. These STCs accommodate the removal of the door, not an in-flight door. E-mail the Government Relations department at [email protected] or call (540) 604-9740. Not a single word about parachute requirements. The 2nd one is a link to the regulation and guidance library. You have to search from there to ANOTHER link. Seems like the confusion that's being added here is by you. I started this whole thing to see if I could just get a somewhat clear answer to what the rules are. If you know, say so. If you don't, that"s OK too. You've picked apart everything I've said and offered no assistance in getting a clear answer. Glad to know a USPA multi-year director is on the side of members and trying to help us follow the rules and stay in the air. Way to go Man

I THOUGHT that's what I was doing in my 1st post. Clearly I didn't word it to your liking. Please accept my deepest apology for causing you an undo amount of trauma and angst. I never meant to do that. You and Cooper asked for a reference. This is what I found. Get as nit-picky as you desire. BTW, if "most" doors are not done thru an STC, then what approvals are being used?

TI shows up with a current USPA issued cert and a current medical, the DZO confirms it with the USPA and it's still his responsibilty to doubt it's legit? Please show me just 1 other instance where any DZO has done this. Again, I'm not taking any sides here, just looking at what has been known so far. 120 instructors took some time to train. This is just coming to light now? Total BS that these guys pulled this kinda crap but, they didn't start yesterday. The questions that need answers are: Did these TI's have USPA certs? Did Bill know the instructors were doing shoddy stuff? Why did the USPA yank his personal membership? I'm not sure if answering these questions at this time and on this forum is a good idea. The walls have ears and who knows who is reading this. I'm just trying to offer (what I think) is an impartial view. Take it for what's it's worth

Don't get confused. Of course TI's need to meet the requirements. My point is, this is unprecedented action that I know of. So far, I haven't seen any facts that support that these TI's didn't have the proper Cert's. If they had USPA issued cert's and showed them to the DZO, how is he supposed to know they aren't legit? This is all conjecture at this point in time. Let's try to stay on point and just stick to what has actually been shown and is true by history. Somebody wants to become a TI, they meet the requirements, find a TIE, do the course, get a USPA and Mfg's cert, pass a medical and go to work. An unfortunate incident happens (this isn't the 1st time) and this happens. Seems this should have happened before the incident but, that's another issue. The main issue I see is did the USPA issue cert's? How long have the TIE's been suspended? Did Bill know the TIE's weren't up to speed and used them anyway? And what reason is there for pulling Bill's personal membership? I don't have these answers. I'm only going off of what has happened so far.

I understand that I'm putting my neck in the noose every time I post here but, perhaps we can leave these unnecessary comments out of this discussion. Yer right. Your comment could be taken a few different ways. Instead of picking a single line and making some opaque comment about someone you don't know, why don't you try focusing that energy where the REAL problems are here. Most of what we do in this sport/business I love. This kinda shit, I can easily live without.......l

Of all the places I've worked at (yeah, it's a been a few), I've never had my ratings investigated like this. No doubt, it's complete BS that anyone is trying to pull this shit but, my point is where is the responsibilty of the DZO to do this? A candidate answers an ad for help, presents the ratings, medical and in date membership, USPA confirms its good and that's it. IF Bill knew the TIE's were no good and if the course was done at his place knowing this, that's a different story. Hopefully the facts will present a clear answer. So far, IMO, this looks like a witch hunt on a non member DZO by the USPA

This is getting into a grey area. A DZO needs TI's. they run an ad for help. Get responses, they show, present the proper ratings, medicals and USPA ratings. Starts throwing drogues without any fanfare and life is good. A TI is faced with a situation like this, reacts as this person did and gets unlucky in the outcome, (let's not get into a discussion on how it was a mistake. We/he knows that) and now the DZO in THIS situation has his personal membership yanked, an investigation is started into the examiners credentials and any other TI's that were trained by these guys now have to be retrained. Other tandem fatalities have occurred in the past and I don't recall these type of actions being implemented. Let's not get into whether it is right or wrong at this time. Everyone agrees we need proper training and ratings. My point is would this have happened to any other USPA group member DZ or is this action unique to Lodi or any other non-group members?

This was pulled from the FAA:Aircraft Modifications Common examples of aircraft modifications include: Removal of a cabin door and a jump door installed or air deflector installed. Seat belts added (every skydiver is required to use a seat belt). Steps installed or handholds for jumper climbout. Door removal or modification approvals often have provisions that require all occupants, including the pilots, to wear a parachute if the door is opened. Airspeed limitations related to door use, which must be placarded. Speed limitations for Cessnas are usually between 80-110 mph for door opening or flight with the door open. Not sure if this answers yer "Technical accuracy" category. I guess focusing on a simple mistake I made over 20 yrs ago when I opened this account is much more important than getting some good info on the subject at hand....

Finally! Thanks for looking this up and sharing. I have been unable to find the individual STC's for the aircraft I mentioned earlier. My 182's are placarded that states everyone in the plane must wear a parachute. Perhaps we may get lucky and find that out in the future. Thanks for sharing with us.

Which part of (excuseyish) are smelling? The USPA did this once before. Against the owners of what was then Skyride. They have plenty of dough so they dragged them to court to get their membership back. Case was heard in front of a Federal judge. Took him 22 min to reach a decision in favor of the Plaintiff. USPA agreed to the settlement but only if it remained sealed. I've never been to Lodi and have never met Bill. Not sure how his place operates. Unless he KNEW these instructors did not have the proper certs or ratings, I don't see why the USPA yanked his personal membership. Seems "Bullyish" to me. Especially after Ed Scott's comments right after this happened

Gee. just like the FAA yanking a pilot's ticket if someone jumps an out of date rig from the plane they're flying, the USPA has decide to yank Bill's membership. Did he conduct this course? Don't get me wrong, this was tragic but, what if a PROPERLY trained instructor would (could) have made the same mistake? The USPA is gonna start going after anybody and everybody associated with that? It's happened in the past and I don't remember this occurring. Smells revengeyish to me.....

I state my personal experience, you think I'm making that up and now you ask for an FAA reference? Willing to bet a larger amount of money than you'll ever have that they won't know what I've seen. Go back to my 1st post. I can't find any clear statement on this from the FAA. Self confessed technotard I am, so I asked for help on the forum hence, that's where I think we are. Hope this brings you up to speed on this discussion.

Make Shit up? Now, why would I do that? Never ceases to amaze me when I see these kind of responses. Another all knowing individual that doesn't know me or my experience and instead of bringing some information or knowledge to the conversation, simply wants to doubt someone else's facts. Another reason I don't miss all the BS at bigger DZ's.........

Don't wanna drop dimes on anyone but, I've jumped a KA a few times and have never seen a pilot rig on any of those pilots. The thread was started to find out the Rules from the FAA, not whether it's a good idea or not. IMO, that's a personal, rule decision. I'm not lookin toget anyone in trouble, I just want to know what the FAA says. I haven't found any solid statement from them yet. I'll post anything I find.

So the FAA website says that the STC for the door mod for skydiving operations requires the pilot to wear a bailout rig. I've never seen a King air or Otter pilot wear 1. Saw a rig hangin on the back of the right seat on a Skyvan. Is this just being ignored or different rules for different aircraft?

Get yer time and money together. Buy a tent and go camp out at the DZ for a week. Plenty of good choices in yer neighborhood.

Couldn't agree more. Totally irresponsible on Ed Scott's end to even insinuate that not being a group member had ANYTHING to do with this incident. Tandem fatalities have NEVER happened at a group member DZ? Another fine example of why NOT to be a group member IMO. Seems the USPA is an organization that is willing to take advantage of a fatality to further their own agenda. Just Fucking incredible........

Had a chop. It was in a very open area with just small (

Student cutaway a line over. Did a great job and enjoyed the experience. Main landed next to the runway in a close to 150 acre open area with the tallest weeds maybe 3' tall. Mostly dry and dead. I saw the main come downand then got busy throwing it back together. left an experienced jumper and a couple helpers to chase it down. I have found every piece of trash out there (picked most of it up). I have spent 2 days out there and can't find it. Just tota;;y perplexed. You can literally look across the entire area from where he chopped to where the main landed. Anybody ever have a critter grab a FB?

Enjoyed yer story, I have no idea about how it relates to my point. BD has evolved into an event where the local LEO's use this as a way to pad their pockets by arresting, charging, incarcerating and then fining those that actually make the event worth coming to see. Narc's in the Holiday Inn, finger print scan (yeah, they dropped it but, only after a serious threat was realized that no jumpers would show), metal detectors, bomb dogs, an over bearing presence of a police/military state and an ever increasing cost for us to cover all of this extra "security." So they grant us a "chance to jump it", right? How big would this event be if no base jumpers showed up for it? IMO the BD commission needs the jumpers more than the jumpers need this. My point was simply to state the facts of what this event is REALLY like. Painting this rosy picture about how gracious these people are for "letting" us jump off their bridge is not truly accurate. It's just not the best situation almost any way you can view this. I'm all about hitting objects, just not this 1. It's a plain old shitty setup and if an individual wants to tolerate what is necessary with being a part of this event, that's an individual choice. I'm sharing what my many years of experiencing this has taught me about the event, the people running it and the local LEO's, and what they have turned this into. I believe the only way to make a true change would be to simply have a year where no jumps were made. Seems to be a pipe dream. The folks in Twin get it and invite BASE jumpers to come to them and they don't treat them this way. I think it's a much better place for 1st timers and there are plenty of courses from some great folks that will get them going the right way.

Typical. I point out a few facts and make a suggestion to go to a place much more conducive to learning and suddenly I'm a hater. BD used to be a really fun event. After the local LEO's and the Holiday Inn staff and the BD commission decided that the jumpers were nothing more than a once a year opportunity to exploit them for anything and everything they could, it's changed. Worth the price of admission? That's a personal choice. I can't support an organization that does anything like that. You want to? Be my guest. Let's just not mislead anyone that hasn't been there. Being ID'd is 1 thing. Showing up to an event and being targeted as an accused criminal is another.