baronn

It really is Amazing how the (lack) of any form of logic has disappeared. Next thing ya know, dirt diving is count in a competition jump.

OK, I shared my experience to let others know about the mistakes I had made on my build. I'm not a writer and I wasn't looking for a lesson. Well aware of the USPA's guidelines. IMO they aren't enuff. If you have something positive to add to the thread, please do. If yer only comment is to criticize my (lack) of writing expertise, save the electrons

N/A

I'm new to the DZ owner game but, I've been around for a few years and somehow still here. I've missed dying in plane crashes 4 times so far. Suppose to be on the plane and for different odd reasons didn't. 1 king air an otter and 2 182's. I decided when I got in this position, I'd either do it right or not do it. I did an almost total rebuild on a '59 182. STOL, extensions and a hopped up 520. I hired an A&P, I/A to help me build the motor. These engines are state of the art 1920"s technology. Easily the simplest engine I've ever worked on. Because they are so simple, they are very dependable even if everything isn't perfect. That's why they keep running. However, as I found out, this creates a sense of complacency on both the owner/pilot and unfortunately mechanics. He wanted to reuse almost every accessory from the old motor. I refused on some, relented on others. Yeah, the fuckin prices were a big influence. Because my guy didn't run the SB's or AD's until just before I was gonna put it back into service, I didn't know about the starter drive issue. The FAA has an AD on this. As these wear out, the starter shaft inside the crankcase starts to wiggle in the cage roller bearing. Eventually this puts enuff of a side load on it to grenade the bearing. The shrapnel falls into the pan and gets picked up into the oiling system. If it doesn't destroy the pump it will destroy the main bearings and the motor will not be running in 30-90 seconds. Scary shit. He had serviced the outside bearing at the starter and said that took care of it. It didn't. I got the weird electric feeling in my back again and so. in the middle of my season, I put the plane down and decided to change it. 1300 and 2 weeks later, I had it in. Thank God I did. The AD only talks about the starter drive. I changed the bearing also. It's a 10 part. but, a bit tricky to get out. Make sure it gets done. Mine was so worn the shaft wiggled about a 1/16" of an inch. 1 of the rollers were missing. I dropped the pan and couldn't find it. This wuda been a half hr job with the motor on the stand. took 2 days in the plane. I addressed a few other things he missed also. I feel MUCH safer now. Couple lessons here. #1 choose yer mechanic carefully. He tells ya you can use auto parts and reuse components, keep looking. #2 do your own research and know yer bird. These fuckin airplanes have always scared me more than the jumps and with good reason. The planes are very dependable but, unforgiving if things get missed. Any straight tail is near 60 yrs old. Gear and motors take the most abuse. A lot of times logbooks don't reflect every part of the history. Don't rely on them. learn to poke yer nose under the cowl and do it regularly. Knowing what I now know, it's amazing these incidents don't happen more often. However, we have seen WAY too many engine failures in the last few years. No doubt the FAA is seeing this also. we need to do better. During my last ramp check with a couple of their reps, They informed me they are more into informing than enforcing and they definitely acted that way. They're actions backed these words. Hopefully this helps prevent any future incidents in the future. edited for readability

As predictable as the sun coming up tomorrow morning, whenever someone can't really defend an un-defendable position, then the shaming starts. Really? Mike I always thought so much more of you as a person. Defend the decision as a good call and back it up. Listen to what is being said here. No members are backing this. Ya feel so strong about? Pay for it all yourself.

As I said about that cup...….

As they said in AVATAR, "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full." But hey, I'll take the bait. My main complaint with the Lodi incident was the fact that no tandem fatality had been handled like that before. Pulling the DZ owners personal membership was retaliatory and accomplished nothing. Once it was discovered that this instructor and other's had gone thru the course with the unrated T/E, I wouldn't have gone on TV. Sometimes silence is best. Instead of yanking all these folks livelihood (And attempting to cut Lodi's staff), I would have treated these victims as due paying members of MY organization and been there for them. Jay Stokes or Tom Noonan wude have been on a plane to correct whatever shortcomings they had experienced from this course. I wude have gotten them up to speed as fast as possible. Laid down some new rules for foreign jumpers so we can avoid a similar situation in the future. I've always felt that it's often best to inform vs penalize. Hell, even the FAA informed me that their new attitude is just this when they hit me for a ramp check. It was actually a pleasant experience and I feel I gained supporters for me and my business instead of another government entity to fear. All this squacking about "going after" and the different penalties is non productive. Forgive everything and total Kumbaya is not what I'm suggesting. If there are some bad apples, let's weed them out, try to straighten the situation or ask them to not do it anymore. If it continues, then take action. But, most of all, let's treat everyone on a level field.

The accident led to USPA discovering the false licenses. Do you think they should have ignored what they found because the accident could have happened to anyone? I have never suggested that. There we many mistakes made here. My position has always been and always will be that this situation was handled poorly IMO. The USPA knew they yanked this TI's rating. They also knew where his home DZ was. And the new TI's they were issuing ratings to. Now, do I expect that it was their job to do this? No, I don't but, it was a mistake that was made. There's plenty of blame to go around on this and how these things almost always turn into some kind of bitch fest between a few people never ceases to amaze me. Do the grown up thing and don't go there. Disagree with my opinion? Great. We all have 1. Make yer point and validate with facts. No need to start making up things that were never said.

No question that this was an unusual situation in so many respects. The questions I have are: Did the TI have the required 3 yrs in the sport and 500 jumps? If he did, then did he take a Tandem course by what he thought was a legit TI and pass it? Did he then have a USPA issued tandem cert? You can get into how the examiner had his rating revoked but, how did any of these people that paid him know that? Clearly they didn't. You can paint all these scenarios about how you can buy yer own rig and blah, blah, blah but, that didn't happen here. Besides that's pretty ridiculous. Pete Swan saw the video, did what I believe is an accurate assessment of what happened and posted it here. He stated that the drogue was packed uncocked and the TI never made an attempt to release it. Had he done so, this wouldn't have happened. Instead he went straight to the reserve. The TI mishandled a simple mistake and it cost 2 lives. To say it couldn't happen to anyone that took a course with a still rated examiner is complete hogwash. Hell it just recently happened in an almost identical scenario and the camera person came in and saved them both. No, this was not handled like it has been at other member DZ's that have had a tandem fatality in the past. Change the story here as many times as you like but, you simply can't change history.

At this stage of this discussion, nobody is doubting the need for a rating and who issues that in this country. What I'm attempting to do is discuss some of the past actions of the BOD. Yer new to this game and I don't believe you had anything to do with the actions in Lodi. It wude sure be helpful to find out the real facts of that situation. From the 1st story I've read and the last post from Mike, it has changed. Perhaps I just haven't gotten it all and perhaps we never will.

Perhaps I missed that earlier post Mike. My bad. So yer saying, the instructor had no USPA license, no rating and just showed up and started tossing drogues? How cude anyone do that? How wude they even know what to do? Something is just not adding up here. He had performed a jump prior because from what I understand he packed this rig and failed to set the drogue. Bad but, not the end of the world since it collapses when released anyway. It wude sure be nice to get the full and straight story here.

As this onion continues to be peeled back, it is becoming more clear how far from any semblance of reality some BOD members have become. I sure wude like to hear what the reasoning is to spend these funds on a place few are ever gonna visit. Don't get me wrong. the history of skydiving shude be preserved but, this isn't the way. Has anyone contacted the National air and space museum? Seems like it wude be a great fit. They have Baumgartners stuff on display there, adding the history of skydiving wude be a natural fit.

Gee thanks. We have all seen that. Maybe he didn't come right out with those words but, any lay person would certainly get that impression. Funny, I don't remember any USPA Offficial ever coming onto a news show and saying anything like that even after a fatality at a member DZ Had to be 1 of the dumbest statements from this organization and there is plenty of competition for that title. This is the same guy that now wants to spend 25K a yr for the next 5 yrs on a fucking museum that nobody is gonna visit. On a side note, it was heart wrenching to see that Mom relive what was probably the worst day of her life.

She lives near Kirk in the Hills in bloomfield Michigan. My sister worked with a girl who cleaned her house. Aretha wude come down to sing and play the piano while they worked. Total class act that will never be replaced Total R E S P E C T

The facts ar well known about what happened on the incident. Pete Swan viewed the video and gave (what I believe) an honest assessment. Clearly a mishandling of a simple malfunction In tree work, I learned to recognize early when things were going the wrong way. Whenever you got to 3 things working against you, it was time to stop before you broke something or got hurt. Same here. Low time jumper, simple mispacking mistake and finally not the correct action that couldn't be undone. The last 1 was unlucky. As far as gear goes, plenty of video showing Bill's huge stockpile of brand new Sigma rigs. He retires them early and I'm sure Pete keeps them in top shape. So, it was a simple procedure mistake, a cascading set of unfortunate circumstances and finally some really bad luck. RIP

And You have knowledge of this? Bill says he didn't know. He had other examiners . Can't understand why he would use this unrated guy if they knew his rating was yanked. Again, what's the truth? We may never know. IMO it doesn't make any sense to use an examiner that had his rating taken away. Was this instructor not properly trained? Maybe. A newbie without a lot of jumps under his belt may have reacted the same way. Unlucky? Definitely. I will never defend an undefendable situation. What makes sense is this examiner had his rating yanked, USPA never told anyone but him. He kept going, forging another examiners name without his knowledge and kept collecting for doing it. Clearly none of his students knew. At this point and until I see different, that scenario makes the most sense. Had this incident not happened, it could still be going.

Sooo, by your definition here, then every DZO that has ever had an incident at their place shude be given the same treatment? We'd run outta DZ's mighty fast. I don't see how Bill had anything to do with this. I am not privy to all the info but, if what you are saying is true, then yeah, this guy deserved the treatment he got. From what I have read, he didn't sign a bunch of blank forms. Personally I can't see why anyone wude do that but, we've seen stranger shit before. Lodi isn't the only DZ to have a tandem incident. If you get nothing more from my posts, just understand that fair and equal treatment shude be fair and equal treatment. This, just like the action directed at Skydive Atlanta reeks of retaliation. That should NOT be the BOD's job.

Nobody is perfect and nobody is expecting that. However, Bill has been thumbing his nose to the USPA for years and he still has operated 1 of the most successful DZ's on the planet. BTW, I have never been there but, ya can't argue with history. The USPA had options here. Instead of punishing it's members that had already been screwed over, why didn't they send Jay Stokes or Tom Noonan out there to remedyy this fuckup. If nuthin more it wude have been a good PR move. Wude have definitely been a win win.....

Just another example of the bully tactics some members of the USPA BOD have taken against members of their own organization. This had absolutely nothing to do with this individuals involvement in this incident. He had nothing to do with it. Any Examiners out there willing to let ANYONE run a course and then you would sign them off? Yeah, didn't think so. It was tragic what happened but, it was a really unlucky situation. I personally had an unusual container lock on a Strong DH and my only option was to toss the reserve past the drogue. According to the MFG's it will work 87% of the time. I was lucky, the Lodi pair wasn't. So here we have a very unlucky tragedy and what do some members of the board do? Can't waste a tragedy and they use this to go after Bill and his business. They yank his personal membership, claim this happened because Lodi isn't a GM (on the Fuckin news no less) and then pick apart his staff after they yanked the examiners rating. Nice. So these people that got screwed by this Asswipe that charged them for their ratings, now get boned by the USPA (that they Fuckin paid dues to!) and are required to pay AGAIN so they can continue their livelihood. Tell me once again how the USPA supports it's members....

Man, this certainly ran off the tracks here. I started this thread to point out some decisions that I felt weren't in the best interest of supporting our sport. It was just an opinion and I wanted to see if any other's felt the same way. These things almost always turn in to some type of attacks between different viewpoints. That's not necessary. Let's stick together and see if we can come up with some better decisions. IMHO getting into these heated discussions about violating BSR's and how to police them is kinda ridiculous. Gee, just what we need, more intrusion into personal freedom. I think most folks want to live another day and behavior that isn't conducive to that tends to not last very long. Ya see something ya don't like? mention it. Don't get the response ya like? Leave. I'm learning a lot more about the USPA than I (thought) I knew before. I don't think I can still hold a rating without a membership. If I cude, I would drop it in a heartbeat.

Tooshay

My "efficiency" syndrome won't allow me.....

Couldn't agree more. In this day and age, the necessity of the BOD traveling for meetings around the country and then expecting the members to show at their little shindig on their dime and time, is totally ridiculous. Nothin like acting above those you are Suppose to represent. Caving in to foreign interests has got to be 1 of the most nutless things I've seen. Very disappointed Mike wude even attempt to justify such behavior. I wuda thought you'd be the 1st 1 standing in the middle of the room saying, "Fuck the FAI!"

I'll admit it, I didn't even know that this info was available. Now that I do, I'll be adding my .02 worth when I feel it's needed. Whether it gets heard, well, let's see. I think this little discussion clearly shows an overall disappointment in some of the decisions being made by the BOD. I, like other's here , Don't feel like the USPA is properly representing the majority of it's members. To hear folks say they wude drop their membership in a heartbeat if they didn't have to have it, it's troubling. I used to be proud to be part of this organization. Had the sticker on all my vehicles and everything. I don't anymore. After the Skyride fiasco, the targeting of Bill Dause and anyone associated with him and the many other bully type tactics I've witnessed, I try to distance myself as far as I can. I simply cannot endorse any organization that does such behavior. I hope that other members of the BOD are listening.....

Apparently, The USPA's only job seems to be to make suggestions to it's members and then cave in to the demands of outside organizations from other countries. And all of this with 0 input from the members. Gee, good thing we have them. As long as the members, (both individual and group) keep paying dues, these elected elite are gonna do whatever they feel like. I hope a few board members besides Mike and Gary are lookin at this. I personally wude be ashamed if I had this many of whatever members I represented this dissatisfied with my performance. I can guarantee if this was a publicallly traded company, you'd be packin yer shit.