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As misskriss pointed out, no one is getting pissed off, only thought provoking discussions, so try and keep it real here. I said I am GLAD I had the choice, please don't take it out of context, it will make you un-necessarily upset. If not I understand.. In another thread I might because I'm not ashamed in any way, but this thread isn't about that debate... it's about what would happen if it was illegal, this thread is not intended to sway people in either direction. It was intended as a serious look into the reprocussions of the decision to make it illegal. I know it's emotional and heated, but let's try...

Sean, I'm thankful I've had the PLEASURE of meeting you with your family.. but I must say, I've met thousands of people too, and you sir, are a gem. Vary rarely do you see your type of dedication & involvment between the fathers & their children. I can imagine that type of scenario and I must admit it must be heart-wrenching. Disclaimer: I assure you no father's were hurt in the process of my procedure and in countless others daily.

MissKriss, they are entitled to their judgements, of course civilized people try hard not to judge, but inevitably, it's nearly impossible to keep from doing so. You are right, they could never understand. And Pajarito.. it's because I know what's involved that makes it ok for me.

Not sure where your going to go with this, but I'll bite, in fact I'll head you off at the pass... I most certainly am a parent I have a healthy 9 year old daughter. I have also had an abortion, and am very glad that the CHOICE in both cases was available to me. I am intimately familiar with BOTH procedures, and in each case I made the right choice for my family.

YES, YES and YES! No amount of SHOCK factor will change my mind. Oh, and my orginal post was "suppose abortion becomes illegal... what then?" I guess then those people, at your linked websites and organizations, would be out of a job? Is that what your saying?

First, my position: Pro-Choice I found some interesting stats on www.abortionfacts.com for instance: During the 1980s and 1990s total abortions stayed about 1,550,000 annually, slowly decreasing in the 1990s. Note that the Guttmacher Institute reported that 10% of known abortion providers did not report. Adding 10% to its 1,550,000 equals 1,700,000. The total reported slowly decreased in the 1990s. When the unreported abortions are added (income tax evasion, cover-up for privacy, etc.), a figure of 1,800,000 may be more realistic. Live births have hovered just under 4,000,000. Therefore: Almost every third baby conceived in America is killed by abortion. 112 Abortion Surveillance U.S. 1988 Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, July 1991. S.K. Henshaw et al., "Abortion Services in the U.S., 1987-1988," Family Planning Perspectives, Vol. 22, No. 3 (May-June 1990), p. 103. I can only imagine the HAVOC our society would experience if these "mostly unwanted" children actually were born. What with the Safe Haven law that says you can drop off your baby within 48 hours of birth at a designated center ie hospital, firehouse, police station, without worry of legal prosecution. How many of these babies would actually be kept? Do you, as taxpayers, really want to pay to raise them? We already have so many people whining about not being able to find a job.. We have welfare systems maxed out... Homelessness will never be remedied.. Public Schools everywhere are already overcrowded.. Rape Victims, Incest victims... need I say more? Mom with 4 kids already, can't keep shoes on their feet now and can't handle another mouth to feed.. Teen pregnancy.. should they really be made to pay for the rest of their life for a simple COMMON mistake? Women on Birth control... who still get pregnant.. they should be forced to modify their lives too? Everyone usually just throws around their beliefs, I think it should be this way or that way.. but have we really stopped to think... what would really happen if it WERE THAT WAY? Statistics show that abandoned children are more likely to commit violent acts, use drugs, and stay in trouble and for girls, get pregnant at a young age... Do we really need over a million MORE babies raised in poverty and in the welfare system? Taking up room in taxpayer funded jails, half-way houses, foster homes, detention centers, drug rehabs...etc. Most of the posts I've read here on political issues sound to me like everyone is untrusting of the government and how they are running the country, what they are butting there noses into, invasion of our personal rights & freedoms... Are you really prepared to let those same people charge you to raise over a million unwanted children every year THEIR way? Gotta raise taxes to support it or... heck why don't we just make the pro-lifers adopt these kids... then they wouldn't have time to stand around and picket. No sorry Mrs. Smith, you'll have to take the mixed child, we don't have anymore white babies left. IMAGINE!!!! I think it's better that the babies are spared to trauma, torture and inevitable misery that can easily become of their lives. Some might call it population control.

Once you don't need a coach anymore... try Vertical Velocity... http://www.bodyflight.net/vertical_velocity.html 135mph, not the same kind of air as perris, but still very flyable and fun!!!! I'm guessing that will save you a couple hundred miles... and block time is much cheaper! Besides then you'll really know if you can fly without falling out... no walls; "That's the way, uh huh uh huh, I like it, uh huh uh huh!" We're givin away tunnel rat numbers this year at the convention, gotta be able to fly a prop-jobbie though...

You don't think we should do anything PERMANENT to our infants???? That's kinda funny. Are you kidding? Everything we do is life lasting, its just that way.. Should we be allowed? I'd like to see someone stop us! How DARE anyone tell me what traditions to pass on to my child. I guess next your going to have a problem with raising them with religion, or as stated previously, with circumcision... c'mon... does it really effect you in anyway that I got my ears pierced when I was 4 months old?? No.. Did it effect me in any negative way I can see? NO. Little girls in my Cuban upbringing are supposed to wear earings, gold necklaces & baby ring. My daughter got her first set (A 100+ year tradition) when she was 3 months old. The tradition holds strong and will keep living on, wether anyone else likes it or not. I'm sorry that it offends you of course, but I certainly am not going to change over a hundred years of tradition because some people might not like it, nor would anyone else I know. Hey if you want those kind of rules, go live in a NOT FREE COUNTRY, you might feel right at home.

HEY NOW!!! Glad your hooked!! Now you know why we love our tunnels so much! But trust me, they are all addictive, not just Orlando & Perris! I'm working on flying in my 7th wind tunnel and can't wait! Blue Skies & Fast Air!

You should always trust your instincts... I think sometimes we get lazy when we are defending our lives. Your right, their record isn't great, but that doesn't mean you will be hurt/injured or die. Perhaps you should encourage them to visit a different DZ? If your going to be that close, try Chicagoland Skydiving Center in Hinckley... they are just under an hour from Chicago and they haven't had all the bad PR. http://www.skydivecsc.com

I told my parents when they asked what was that "thing" hanging around my neck (they we're referring to Tami's beautiful Flare-Wear)... after I explained it's function, they looked puzzled... then I put it together for them. Basically, both mine & my husbands mom (dads don't seem to care) have the same opinion of it... "Don't tell me when your going, just call me once your done" Smart parents know, they can't control their grown children. Good luck, and never apologize for who you are.

Thanks, that ought to be interesting! I love learning....

Skydivers are people too!

Neither.. I'm for Bush. I do not like everything about him, in fact I hate that he is interested in pushing some of his religious beliefs on us all, but of course it will take more than just his vote to make those things happen. I don't think anyone but Bush is capable of handling the current state of our country. To cut him off now would be to hand this mess to someone else. I mean, 4 years isn't hardly long enough to make a difference anyway... but at least I believe he should get the chance to finish what he started. I feel safer with Bush as the president... Kerry.. well... it seems he and all the other candidates would like us to believe that our current president is the enemy.. he took jobs away, he got our country further in debt, he went to war on a personal vendetta.. I think it's all crap. I got a check from Bush and tax breaks from Bush that help TODAY not in the future. So what if we're in debt.. really now, who isn't? I mean if the average american has about 50K in debt, why is it illogical that our government would be in a similar financial situation? We ALL live beyond our means. Also, taking jobs away, I know this will really hurt some feelings, but mine is NOT the first generation that has known we must have a career/skills to fall back on. There is always going to be changes like these, we musn't blame any president who is trying to save our country money, because we are unwilling to work harder or learn new skills. Did anyone stop to think these people might be better off if previous presidents had done a better job? I mean, Bush really isn't responsible for what happened before him.. he like all the other presidents are simply trying to keep things running smoothly and try to keep us safe. To blame Bush for the elderly, the aging, the out of work.. I just don't think it's right. We are responsible for our lives and I know it's not fair, but hey, life just isn't fair. I will continue to support an additional term for the most sincere president I have seen since his father. We are all human, we all make mistakes... Kerry will too if he is elected.. noone is perfect. It will always be impossible to please everyone... but I don't get it, I'm a little guy, I have benefited from GWB as president...what am I missing here? I guess I'm not alone though... 3 out of 16 votes think Kerry would make a good POTUS.. that really says it all right there! I will look forward to more votes on the subject...

I'm just running through really quick on the forums, but I wanted to tell you what my nurse told me about fainting/blacking out.. because I used to do it quite often. If you feel your temperature rise, the peripheral vision start to get black, whatevere it is the tips you off that this is coming.. COUGH Cough hard and loud from deep in your diaphram. Coughing will stimulate blood flow to the brain which can PREVENT losing conscienceness (boy I can't spell today). It seems hard when your feeling so weak but you can do it. I used to faint regularly, low blood sugar & pressure, now I cough, and 10/10 times, it goes away. Hope that helps you And by the way, sounds to me like the culprit was Adrenline... lots of that can do amazing things to your organs, including sending most of your blood supply elsewhere besides brain.

I think that was an genious idea! My problem with the protesters is that not ALL the women who go to those clinics are having abortions, most clinics provide many other services like counseling, prevention, ob/gyn services... and the girls/women are intimidated or nervous at least about their very safety for being there! I think EVERY clinic has policies which encourage much thought about the decision before the procedure including working through ALL the options. These clinics are important to have, and fact is they prevent alot of abortions through education.

I use the Wayback Machine quite often, it's pretty neat. Mostly I track website progress over the years, but it's cool for those other uses too!

That's HILARIOUS!!! but that's not SQL!

I been self employed since 1999. I prefer to say it that way, because owning my own business sounds like a company, when it's only just me and a few outside resources. I have a website design business, with about 12 steady full time clients. These clients pay the bills in my family and keep me from working for someone else. I do this from a home office where clients come to visit if necessary. I run Bodyflight Network and its sub organizations, advertisers pay me and I advertise, in addition to having a venue to promote my husbands career. I also have a gift basket business that I'm just starting out with because I only have about 10 hours a week to put into it. I'm also full time mom & wife. Why do I do it? #1 CONTROL over everything I don't usually play as well with some others, therefore this way I can pick and choose who I deal with in my life #2 FLEXIBILITY I need a career that can allow for me being a parent and to travel with my husband when necessary (I move frequently) #3 SECURITY job security is very important, I am able to grow with the industries and remain flexible, and I never have to worry about my boss saying "Your Fired". #4 PERSONAL FULFILLMENT there is nothing like a job well done, and when you really provide a service for people who appreciate it, there is just nothing like it. When I work 16 hour days, it is worth it because I'm working for my own bottom line. Why WOULDN'T someone go into business of their own... I suspect for the VERY same reasons, that some of us WOULD! Good luck on your journey, and someone said something like "stay small or GO BIG" and they are right, there really is no in between.

Hey there Ari!! Thanks for the great Birthday wishes~~ it was great meeting you the other day for sure!!!! We're actually off to SkyVenture next week with sdgregory (dz.com'er) & his kids, we're very excited about the whole thing, and I'll get to use my new DaKine Rags while I'm there!!! See ya soon!!

This year I turned 29 years old! Whew it's been a very long journey so far!! So I thought I would share with everyone what I got for my birthday!! A 2 day trip to the L1 tunnel (over an hour flying) A new purple & lime green DaKine Rags suit from Chuck (isn't he awesome and it's one of the last one's he'll ever make!!!) A fabulous Cutaway Cafe Chicken Scampi dinner cooked in my home from Scotty & Tami Carbone A new closing pin necklace with flaming beads from Tami (Flare-Wear) New Red FlexZ Mini's from my hubby as well as a new silver chain & earings!!! A specially baked swiss chocolate cake with milk chocolate iceing made by hubby too!! Am I a lucky girl or what??? oh, and lots of money from my family!!! Here's me (grey helmet) and hubby in the rainbow michigan suit & our friend Austin at L1 last week!! We had tons of room left!!!

Flyaway is great, there is SOOO much history there. Almost all of us have worked there at some point in the last 20 years. You'll go, get a couple of books of 5 (cheaper than a coaching package) and go have a great time. You'll spend several hours there hangin out, probably do double flights (two at a time) and they'll coach you as far as your skills will take you. It won't be the same as freefall, and many may want to discourage you against it, but it is certainly worth the training, and the cost is greatly different. There is a Family Inn right next door and I would recommend going in the off season, meaning now or before school lets out in the summer. Get there first thing when they open so you can get in the first class. If your fortunate, you will be the only one in your class. These are not skydiving instructors so it's important to note that they are only capable of teaching you to be an excellent tunnelflyer, but an excellent tunnelflyer is fabulous in freefall.. nuff said! Go, have fun.. go to our website, print out a coupon first for Pigeon Forge, have a great time. One of the top 3 tunnel flyers from the Competition at the WFFC still works there today Wes Evens, say Hi, he's an awesome teacher!

Hi, I didn't really compare the two tunnels at all BUT The instruction available in Texas depends on the student, there are plenty of aff coaches around perfectly capable of teaching great freefall skills at the local dz, and also John Suiter is available for coaching in Conroe as well as SkyVenture, and I maybe biased, but there is NO better tunnel instruction out there. The expense being "not much more" is always dependent on the person with the budget and how much they have available. Some people would consider a couple hundred bucks, ALOT more. There is plenty to be learned at those less than awesome tunnels, that's where most of us learned since the early 80's. So if your driving, and want to save bucks and have a good time, go to Pigeon Forge to Flyaway, it will be hard work but still you will learn ALOT to your benefit.

Hi, SkyVenture is a good choice since you can gain easy access with the airports. I also recommend the tunnel in Houston called Adren-L-N and it will cost you a bit less than SkyVenture and is also a direct airline flight. Both facilities have good airspeed and you can benefit greatly from the instruction available at either facility. By the way, I'm curious about the vague part... I try really hard to make everything on the Industry including locations, complete, if you have some suggestions let me know!