SkydiveJack

You said that he tried to secure the money in the reserve's container. So this means to me that he knew it was a training reserve. That seems to eliminate a lot of previous discussion that he was a non- jumper and didn't know what he had. Was the training reserve container found in the aircraft? If not maybe he threw it and other items out of the aircraft to distract any other airplanes he thought might be shadowing the 727. Ckret, can you please confirm that both of the emergency backpack parachutes did not have D-rings? If this was the case then Cooper must have figured that he was committed to jumping with just one parachute and the money bag tied to his body. Either that or landing somewhere else to get another set of gear and risk getting captured in the airplane. And not to mention that he would possibly be far away from the Northwest part of the country where he probably intended/wanted to land in. If all the money was in the bag provided then it kind of kills my previous speculation about some money being lost from a second container. Back to the drawing board. I still think he was a smoke jumper. Any thought on that?

I like your line of reasoning. My only addition here is that the cut up reserve chute is no good only with the harness that he jumped with. The one left behind might (Ckret?) have had the D rings needed. If this happens to be the case, then you must ask yourself, why would he cut up the good reserve when he could have just switched harnesses to use it? Maybe he got antsy and decided the hell with it. In other words, maybe he was short on time and didn't want to take the time to get out of the harness and strap on another just so he could use the reserve. Or, maybe NickDG's original idea is correct... that Cooper just wanted to stuff the front pack with the money. It's possible, that was his plan all along. First of all, maybe I missed it, but was it actually established if the the other emergency rig did or did not have D-rings? Second, since I missed many of these posts over the last few weeks I was not aware that NickDG had already brought up using the training container to stash the cash in. Sorry Nick, I didn't mean to steal your idea.

Zing's post explains why there were no D-rings on the parachutes. Most of us oldtimers have seen these kind of rigs used by jump pilots. They were thinner than a standard military surplus sport rig because there was no sleeve on the canopy. A sleeve is basically a large sock that slides over the round canopy and is used to reduce opening shock. Anyway, these emergency rigs were also used by aerobatic pilots, glider pilots and warbird pilots to name a few. I can imagine the guy from Pacific Aviation calling someone he happened to know off the top of his head who had a couple of chutes. A non-skydiver, meaning the Pacific Aviation guy and the owner of the rigs would probably not have any idea about D-rings for a chest mounted reserve. After all, to them a chute is a chute is a chute. Now, the reserve chutes. Why one of them was a dummy container used for training only is anyone's guess but it's a moot point for now because of no D-rings on the emergency rigs harness to attach it to. I read a statement earlier in these posts that the dummy container was empty. I think what was meant was that there was not a parachute in the container. First a little explanation on these training reserves for those unfamiliar. These training reserve containers normally had just a sewn shut sleeve filled with scraps or rags to give it some bulk and a few lines to attach it to the inside of the container. There is a ripcord and the container can be closed so students in a suspended harness can practice pulling a ripcord, throwing it away and hand deploying an un-pilotchuted reserve parachute. The instructor could quickly stuff everything back in the container and close it up for the next student. And as mentioned earlier, these training containers are normally well marked stating Training Use Only, Do Not Jump. So, now back to the 727 and Cooper. I don't know the time line was of when he knew that he could not attach a reserve to the harness of his main. But he might have figured it was a delaying tactic and decided to get airborn and go with just the main and no reserve. Now, he has a bag of cash and might have decided to use the training container to stuff the money bag into. You see those containers still have clips and loops and lots of ways that they can be securely attached to the harness. Probably more secure than holding onto the money bag or putting the cash into a briefcase. To tie the cash/reserve container to his rig or body he would need some strong cords. The cords in the training container were quite possibly worn and frayed. Hmmm... well he had that other good reserve that he can't use. Might as well open it and cut some good lines off of it and use them to tie on his just fashoned cash/reserve container. Now I have a question for you Ckret Agent Man (to steal the name)! What is the bulk of $200,000 in twenty dollar bills? From something you posted earlier about the weight of the money I am going to guess that he could have gotten much but not all the cash in the reserve container. So... in this scenario he has a bunch of money securely straped to himself in the reserve container. So the other cash is carried how? If he tried to hold on to it or had it poorly attached to himself then he could have lost this portion during the jump. It might be the cash that was found by the river. This is just beer fueled speculation on my part. But it might give an insight into Coopers knowledge and background with parachutes as well as explain why certain items were found in the condition they were in. So again Ckret, what is the bulk or volume of the money? BTW, I still think Cooper was a smoke jumper. JMHO

I didn't even HAVE the internet back then... There are posters here who weren't even born then.!

Looks like there will be a stiff wind with occasional hard showers!

No, the Harvard, also known as the T-6 or SNJ, is a completely different aircraft than the Avenger. The Avenger was a US Navy carrier based combat aircraft. The T-6/Harvard is a land based aircraft that was primarily used as a trainer by the US and Commonwealth Air Forces during WWII and after. Various countries and services had different names and designations for what was pretty much the same aircraft. A very few were built with wing mounted machine guns and equipped to carry small bombs. I believe these weapons were for training purposes but a few of them were actually used in anger during some small conflicts, maybe in South America.

Well, How much did the 20's weigh? Was that really ever a consideration on his part like you seem to want to believe? Someone used to jumping with lots of equipment wouldn't be too overly focused on your 15 pound detail. Especially if he was PLANNING on landing in a tree. Therefore he might have been USED TO landing in trees. In fact, smoke jumpers have that experience and background. In fact, I think a smoke jumper back in those days WOULD NOT want a ParaComander. Too much forward speed if you were PLANNING on landing in a tree. As far as not asking for a specific flight plan, who's idea is that? Someone who pondered the crime for years after it was done? Hey, guess what, direct to Mexico City or Reno is kind of the same line, south-southeast from Seattle. Maybe he didn't have an exact spot to land or someone on the ground. Maybe he just wanted a genreral area of forest he was familiar with. Someone with good survival training wouldn't be totally scared away from the prospect of being in the woods for a few days, especially if they were highly motivated by the money. You said you talked with Army and Sport jumping Experts. They would think totally different than a smoke jumping expert. Ever talk to some of those? Seems to me it would be a good idea to have checked their ranks and picked their brains. After all, they have a lot of experience jumping into dangerous situations, with low performance round parachutes, carrying equipment and landing in trees. I think most of the people investigating this case are trying to figure things out from their perspective, not D.B. Coopers perspective. Just my humble opinion.

The days not over yet. Maybe she's going to call you...........

As I recall, the right hand door DC-3 we had in Z-hills once or twice was either bare aluminum or painted silver. And I think it's name was The Silver Bullet. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Oh, why that's the Sky Toboggan! I didn't cheat, not really.

If memory serves, we (Ten High Bunch) jumped a right-hand door DC-3 at one of the Turkey Meets or Nationals. After hundreds of exits from L/H doors, it felt decidedly awkward. I seem to recall being told that it and others were produced on special order by Douglas for one of the major carriers (American Airlines?) of the early-'40s. Anyone out there who remembers - or knows - of this oddity? Hoop Some years after you left Z-hills we had a right hand door DC-3 for one of the Boogies. I don't remember exactly when. I believe it came out of Colorado. I do remember it was great when we did some 80 way jumps. Two DC-3's in formation with the doors facing each other! Pretty cool! And your right, it was really strange going out the "wrong" side of the aircraft. And you are also correct about American Airlines having it's DC-3's built with the door on the right.

Or..... maybe they can be!

Here are two photos of it. The first was this summer in Alma, MI after it just got back on it's wheels. No wings or engines yet. The second is an in-air shot from a few years ago. My wife is involved with the rebuild team. She has been keeping the paperwork in order and chasing down some hard to find parts. Hopefully it will be back in the air next spring.

GW#1544 DW#422 Guess that makes me an official old fart!

I have jumped with a gun a couple of times. Years ago when I worked at Z-hills I would sometimes go up in a Cessna to look for cutaway mains that had gone down in the Green Swamp to the east of the DZ. If I spotted it and there was somewhere nearby that I could land, I would jump in and get the canopy. One day I was at a locals farm and he showed me his pet pig. It was a Wild Boar that he found as a piglet in the swamp. It was now fully grown and must have weighed three or four hundred pounds, had BIG tusks and eyes like the devil. I never went into the swamp again without my 45.

Well I don't see why Ed couldn't do just as good or better, after all, he has served as USPA Director of Government Relations and Group Membership for 11 years. I'd think he knows what we DON'T want in USPA, if you get my drift. Clue: unscramble the red letters SkyRide?

Close. It's a Bushmaster.

My favorite teams are Michigan and whoever is playing Ohio State. Way to go Illinois!!!!!

Loks like WHO.

Is this from personal experience?

I noticed on my Direct TV program guide that A&E is listing an all night run of Dog the Bounty Hunter. Strangely enough, when I tuned in they are showing various police and SWAT shows. My My, what does it all mean?

Once a skydiver, always a skydiver.

That's right! I remember jumping your student rigs a handfull of times when I was out there doing AFF eval jumps in the early 1980's. They flew great and seemed docile and safe. Very good for that time. And the best thing was I didn't know how to pack them so you had to!!!

That's right Murray, his name was Rob. And yes, he opened at ten feet or less. I remember now about him saying he was pulling on the risers all the way down. He bought his beer too!!!

Yeah Eric, watching that Belgian kid NOT go in was one of the coolest things I have ever seen in skydiving!!!! It was the first jump of his vacation at Z-hills. He was jumping a rig with a pull out pilot chute and did a lazy throw, leaving the pilot chute flopping on his back. He pulled his cutaway then his reserve. Both pilot chutes left him at the same time and got tangled together. His main came out of the bag and was was a big blob completely free of, but anchored above, his stretched out round reserve. We figured out later that the huge amount of drag from the ball of main parachute was fighting the pull from the jumpers weight and keeping the base of the round reserve from letting air in. As his body went below that big tree out in the landing area the reserve suddenly opened. The few of us that didn't turn away started cheering and those that didn't see it open thought we were some sick puppies until the kid got up and started jumping around without a scratch. That reserve opened at the absolute lowest possible altitude for him to survive. As far as the flight back from the Demo, I now make my living as a pilot so I don't know what your talking about. You must have mistaken me for someone else.