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I’ve directly witnessed two AAD fires on student jumps, know of a half dozen more on student jumps, and have seen or heard of about a dozen on fun jumps at local drop zones.

In response to the new BSR that the BOD just passed, I'm curious how many have had or witnessed an AAD fire last year? Out of those, how many were by instructors? Please no names or places at this time Thanks

Anybody know what happened to Bob Sinclairs van? Man, that thing is the closest we have to Museum. We need to find it.

As a rigger, over about the last decade, I've packed at least four Cypres saves, one of them a student on a level 1 AFF (many years ago - I don't know the specifics, nor would I tell you what they were if I did know, so don't ask). Two of the others were the same fun jumper. I feel like there was a fifth, but I'm not positive I packed that one (I did the repack and cutter replacement afterwards), so I'm not including it in the count...

I watched an AAD fire on a student AFF jump and I also witnessed one from the air while I was under canopy, watched a guy go by in free fall and he pitched his main the same instant the AAD fired. He claimed that he was not low and the AAD malfunctioned. Take it from me he was that low!

I’ve never understood the point of posts like these, on any forum. Its a free world. Nobody is making you post here so if you don’t like it anymore just move on. Why make a ‘thing’ about it??

I don’t understand alll the fuss... A student can sue????? For an AAD fire????? This seems to go to the erroneous assumption that the instructor in there to save the student’s life. That is the student’s job. My job is to train them to proficiency. Maybe because is was trained S/L and trained S/L students for 20 years before I started AFF. As an AFF-I, I see my responsibilities being to train thoroughly on the ground, supplement this with hand signals in the air and assist with stability and deployment. If USPA can gain information from this reporting that allows me to do that more efficiently, great.

How is it even remotely appropriate for an instructor to have multiple AAD fires? It used to be that an AAD was your 2nd, 3rd and 4th chance all at once. If you have an AAD fire, congrats a computer saved your life and now you take up golf and quit skydiving. Now it's, 'shit I just had an AAD fire, I better get my rig packed ASAP so I can get on the next load". That's crap.

As usual Lisa hones in on the real issues. As I said earlier, Wadkins told me each time that the motion came to the plenary session (3x IIRC) that it was only if the student's aad fire or a tandem aad fire that was required to be reported. If he has changed his story since then so be it, but I was sitting next to him and asked this Q each time. What you are not being told is that if someone does not report the aad fire they will be subject to disciplinary action. And -- this idea/concept of anonymity is in the area of la-la land. Generally, the incident reports are anonymous. However, if the case of these aad fires HQ has to keep track of who reported the aad fire in order to verify that Joe Jumper did file an aad fire report. Then there was a comment, by someone, who I don't remember, that said if we end up with a bunch of aad fires from the same instructor - well then we need to do something about that. That tells you two things: not anonymous and there will be a disciplinary action. It used to be that Is got additional training. Now they get a 1-6 against them and some sort of suspension and then possibly additional training months later. The reason I voted against this motion was because USPA may be putting the I in a place that puts "OMG I'm gonna be sued" vs "yeah USPA needs the reports". Anyone that owns a DZ or is an I, that has to deal with this, would more than likely follow the advice of their attorney. Their attorney would advise not to send any report in to USPA, thus putting them into the potential disciplinary loop of USPA. .

In the last 10 years I’ve seen or been on the jump at big way events where at least 6 AAD activations have occurred because of low openings. In that time I know of at least 2 AFF students losing height awareness resulting in AAD activation whilst I was on the DZ. it does happen more often than reported.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, the time and effort you put into that post makes it much more likely that we're able to assist in resolving any issues.

Ron Bell talks about the new AAD BSR here: https://www.skydive-tv.com/pia-symposium-2019-ron-bell/ Also, UPT mentions it around 4:50 here: https://www.skydive-tv.com/pia-symposium-2019-tom-noonan-upt/

I have seen two different AAD fires on AFF jumps (from the ground) at different places. I was able to narrowly avoid having it happen to me on a Cat E2 AFF several years back. Got the students reserve pulled at 2K. I have no problems with this BSR. The added information from factual reports may provide input for AFFI courses and added or better emphasis of training in different areas. If you're writing these reports regularly something is wrong. Seems like good information for our organization to have.

Ron Bell talks about the new AAD BSR here: https://www.skydive-tv.com/pia-symposium-2019-ron-bell/ UPT talks a bit about it here as well (4:55): https://www.skydive-tv.com/pia-symposium-2019-tom-noonan-upt/ These USPA conspiracy theories are getting a bit ridiculous. Tabulating statistical data on incidents is a core function of improving safety in every single industry in existence. There are people who's entire careers are solely to run statics on incidents and determine outcomes--it is in itself a career field. Many of the safety improvements that have occurred to products and practices over the years have come directly from analyzing statistical data obtained from incident reports. Detailed and comprehensive reports allow people to better understand legitimate, real-world risks and their applicability to certain situations and conditions. Likewise, a complete lack of reporting leaves little more than random guessing which will never further the advancement of anything.

It's not exactly the same situation, but here in the flight test department at Textron Aviation (aka Cessna and Beechcraft) we created and implemented an in-house process to self-report a number of aviation incidents that aren't required to be reported to the FAA. Although it does include those as well (turbine engine failures, altitude deviations, etc.). The intent of the process is to figure out areas we as a flight test department could improve. The reports are anonymous, and we actually have an understanding with the FAA to help protect our pilots legally in return to passing on the data to them. Several hundred reports have been filed over the last few years, everything ranging from system failures to TA/RA to dialing the wrong frequency. The result has been pretty eye opening for the organization, and in turn has helped shape our monthly safety meetings and yearly safety stand-down topics and training. The data has helped our local ATC update their procedures and training as well. Nothing specific made this program become a reality. It didn't take an accident or realization of some new problem. Sometimes it's simply noticing that things can be improved. I have no doubt the USPA wants this info for very similar reasons that we do. Probably no conspiracy or witch hunt involved.

They seem to be a lot more common than one would think. Cypress' website says ' The first life saved by a CYPRES dates back to April of 1991. Since then, more than 4,000 lives have been saved!'. Vigil reports 329 saves so far. Not sure how many MARS has. I have not personally witnessed an AAD fire, but I've talked to a few instructors who have.

That's what I would think too. After asking, no report is needed if the I's AAD fires, as long as the I is not acting as a TI on that jump.

>Please let me know how you would interpret this new BSR. You have to send a report to USPA if anyone's AAD fires during a student jump.