To all Tony series 2 wingsuit owners,

[KrisFlyZ 0]

I offered to send other units...I have 3 sitting here that I am not going to use again. Will drop one in the mail when I get my act together. It uses USB so no more complaints about European things

Kris

[The111 0]

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Now for those of you that are questioning how we can determine this difference in fall rate the answer is this was tested over hundreds of jumps.

If you ask me how tall you are, I can look at you "several hundred times"... but I won't know the answer until I get out a tape measure. People weren't asking how you can determine the fallrates you claimed... they were asking you to show us proof.
And if you don't want the public responding to your posts, don't post in a public forum.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[pierre3636 0]

brian jeff everyone . . . Sorry i did go off on a tangent and to make it worse it was not even the forum topic. I should have started a new forum. Brian apologies if you felt i carried on to long but i like knowing the truth and dont just assume answers. Its my nature. Thats that i suppose. Our new sm1 with new un done wings have arrived. Doing a bunch of jumps on them this weekend. Ill let you know what i think. Have a goodie ciao

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Heffro1 0]

So what you are telling me is you can't tell the difference of the fall rate from one dive to the next without looking at a data logger, and lets say you are jumping with the same people (who by the way are some of the most experienced in our discipline) and these jumpers fly very consistent fall rates, do you think that you can tell the difference?

I'll put it in your terms if you see ten people, that you know are the same height, then someone shorter comes along, you don't need a tape measure to conclude one person is shorter. I don't know maybe you do, perhaps you contact lenses are misaligned again.

And yes this is a public forum so that also gives me the right to retort

And Pierre, you are a series 2 wingsuit owner, so there is no need for apologies.

BUY A WINGSUIT
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[Tony-tonysuits 0]

ok, I blame myself, I'll put an end to this madness by writing in all the times if that will help, Phill Peggs will do it while i fix his Blade :-)
Jeff's fatest speed was 50mph till pull time,
after 6 seconds vertical speed was 38mph
7 sec's-45 this is the most boring post,
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now I blame myself beacause I said sustaind, what I meant was that he was just flying along, not diving, and flairing, just flying along and then pressing down to ck out the slow fall, remember why we were doing this test ?

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[The111 0]

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I'll put it in your terms if you see ten people, that you know are the same height, then someone shorter comes along, you don't need a tape measure to conclude one person is shorter.

There is a difference between comparing and measuring. You can certainly judge relative height by eye (taller or shorter), you cannot judge height by eye (exactly how tall or how short).

Quote

So what you are telling me is you can't tell the difference of the fall rate from one dive to the next without looking at a data logger, and lets say you are jumping with the same people (who by the way are some of the most experienced in our discipline) and these jumpers fly very consistent fall rates, do you think that you can tell the difference?

Jeff, nobody ever raised issue with the idea that you can fly slower than others. The issue was with the idea that you can fly 21mph.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[The111 0]

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ok, I blame myself, I'll put an end to this madness by writing in all the times if that will help

Haha, thanks for taking the time to post that Tony.

Here is the first minute in graph form (not going to take the time to input all the rest of the data from 60 on). There are a lot of gaps in the data, but what you can see is what we all suspected... the only time the speed comes close to 21mph, it is a spike/flair.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[bdrake529 0]

Damn, Matt. You just beat me to it.

Here's all of Tony's data plotted out. No extra effort to "input" the data since it was easy to split the data on hard-returns.

Brian Drake

[yuri_base 1]

So sustained is more like 30mph. 21 is a planeout, and the time it occurred after the exit (~17s) is typical for planeouts. See Planeout, or Why sometimes you think you can fly.

A 30 to 21 sustained improvement would require a DRAMATIC change in aerodynamics. A simple estimate using wingsuit equations shows that the drag would have to be reduced by a factor of 2! Not something that can be done by simply unstitching the wing.

Besides that, 9mph thermals do exist.

But kudos to Jeff and Tony for constantly trying new things!!!!!!!

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[JohanW 0]

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.. get a girlfriend a boyfriend or a life. With the exception of Jarno ..

Concur.

Jarno, please don't get a life, or we'd miss out on a whole lot of fun here.

Wishing you lots of good things otherwise of course. Hope to see you on Saturday.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[LouDiamond 1]

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To all that commented on here in a (derogatory manner), particularly Scott who do not already own a series two Tonysuit wingsuit get a girlfriend a boyfriend or a life. With the exception of Jarno.

Wow, the only comment I have made in this thread was in response to Pierre's question which in no way mentioned anything derogatory about the M2. Why you would resort to grade school antics with my last name is beyond me but if it makes you feel better in some way, good for you.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[sdctlc 0]

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So sustained is more like 30mph.

With the numbers given, the average is at 33.75

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[jakee 1,255]

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I was on the jump that Jeff tried it out and I saw his L&B Optima readout from top to bottom. he was in the low 20's for over half the dive. Do you trust me?

Now that the numbers have been posted, no

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yuri_base 1]

Here's an illustration using wingsuit equations: simply run Solver in Excel and tell it to minimize the cumulative difference between Jeff's data and calculated data for the first 50 seconds of flight. Not only it shows how the fallrate could drop to low 20's at about 17 second mark, but extracts reasonable sustained speeds automatically as well: 75mph horizontally and 30mph vertically (L/D = 2.5).

While the assumption of constant L/D is crude, the simulation still reflects major features of wingsuit dynamics rather well. And it's not surprising. After all, what is a better proof that you need to study physics to fly wingsuit than Purple Mike on the cover of physics books!

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
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iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[bdrake529 0]

Yuri,

How are you able to extract Jeff's horizontal speed and therefore compute his L/D from the data Tony provided?

Brian Drake

[mccordia 73]

Its all in the equations that can be found in his avatar..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[bdrake529 0]

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Its all in the equations that can be found in his avatar..Tongue

I was afraid you'd say that.

Brian Drake

[yuri_base 1]

Brian,

See the spreadsheet attached above, it is based on wingsuit equations introduced here.

In a nutshell, observed velocity data allows one to extract total force (simple F=ma) and further extract lift and drag from it. Once you have lift and drag, you have L/D and can also compute sustained horizontal and vertical speeds.

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
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iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[bdrake529 0]

Uh.... that's way over my head. I'll ponder those equations, but for the meanwhile, they're not sinking in.

What I don't understand is that you only have Jeff's vertical speed. Couldn't those numbers be posted by an object falling straight down? How are you able to determine 1) he was moving forward at all 2) the efficiency in how he was flying 3) the capability of his suit?

I'm a Super Mach 1 fan and I know Jeff can turn on the speed, so 2.5 L/D isn't unreasonable, I just don't get how you can calculate that by only knowing one variable.

Brian Drake

[mccordia 73]

First GPS devices are not to be trusted..now fallrate data suddenly is enough..

All we need to determine L/D is some equations from a a guy that wrote the a 20 page essay on his shoes

Weee

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[yuri_base 1]

Yes, knowing only vertical speed reduced the accuracy of the model, but the dynamics of it still contains (implicitly) information about horizontal speed. A flying object with the same sustained vertical speed, but significantly different horizontal speed (i.e. significantly different L/D) will planeout at different time and with different magnitude. The timing and magnitude of the planeout contain information on both vertical and horizontal sustained speeds, and that's how L/D is extracted.

An object falling straight down (i.e. having L/D = 0) will not have a planeout, it will approach its sustained speed without going through a minimum, and equations willl "see" this and correctly deduct L/D = 0.

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[bdrake529 0]

Interesting....thanks Yuri. I'll chew on that for a while.

Brian Drake

[mccordia 73]

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thanks Yuri. I'll chew on that for a while.

And I'll just write it off as drunk Russian math talk, and go to sleep thinking of women in bikini's

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[yuri_base 1]

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And I'll just write it off as drunk Russian math talk, and go to sleep thinking of women in bikini's

Hey, what happened? You started thinking about women in bikinis instead of lubricated ponies! And the formulas in my avatar? If they're wrong, it's your fault, not mine.

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[lurch 0]

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