normiss 644 #1 October 2, 2006 So Scott (notsane) kicks my d-bag buzzing by me.... lol...just kidding...he did say it came off my back spinning pretty bad though! cutaway number 2 .... wow! what a ride!! landed right between my freebag and main! http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=4918 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #2 October 2, 2006 You post whore! Mines just finished downloading, will watch now Edit: Sweet!1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsane 0 #3 October 2, 2006 I'm pretty sure that's me you can hear at the beginning going "WooHoo!" You can't hear me right after I kicked the bag ... "I said FUCK YOU!, Normiss!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TALONSKY 0 #4 October 2, 2006 Nice chop. Just a passing thought, watching the video it appears you do 2 full revolutions with your canopy pointed at the ground while your unzipping. I know with a spector loaded 1.3 that is not a critical as it would be at a high wingloading and a more aggressive wing but you could have been flying your reserve that much quicker if you went straight to the reserve after trying to kick out. Also when you unzip you no longer have control of the wings if they were to inflat when you went back into freefall. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SCARYPERRY 0 #5 October 3, 2006 nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dockOnly he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #6 October 3, 2006 I DON'T want to beat THAT one! thanks Perry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #7 October 4, 2006 Mark, a couple of questions. 1.What were you doing before you deployed in the beginning of the video? You initially are turning to your left but then begin spinning to the right. It looks like you were turning/carving(or dropped a shoulder) while deploying. 2.Was your main spinning from the moment you deployed? You did several revolutions and I assume you had canopy above you but at about 25sec is when you can actually hear a pop(chute inflate all the way?)and see your main above you."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #8 October 4, 2006 I have been taking some time reviewing this video along with your comments to collect my thoughts... Yes the bag was spinning bad when it came off my back...and as such I have modified the way I pack to improve that. My line stows are shorter, more free line at the end (not using the last rubber band any more either) and am considering a larger pilot chute. These issues were not a problem with my Acro, but with a significantly larger surface area of the wings on this suit they became noticable. I've had nothing but sweet openings since, and am aware of the improvements it has made - but a few other things happened that still bother me a bit. I was jumping the Tony Suit Eagle with webbie hands, and getting a solid tactile feel of the hackey coupled with reaching around the larger wing area make it a rather unsettling feeling at deployment FOR ME. I had trouble getting the hackey and a solid pull, I simply don't think I like the webbies for this reason. I also had difficulty trying to get the clips to release the wings, there is about 1 1/2 inches of material attached to the clip and that is very difficult to locate and pull when you need to most. I think I would feel better if there was a pull loop (similar to PF and BM wing cutaway loops) that were velcroed in place and not flapping around. I plan on providing my thoughts with Tony also, I just needed some time to review this and think it over, aided with the questions and feedback I have received from a lot of fellow Wingnuts. Thanks for helping me sort this out guys...I'm still learning for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #9 October 4, 2006 Was this your 1st reserve ride? Good decision on chopping that spinner , but there's no need to pull the reserve slider down before unstowing the reserve's brakes...... Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #10 October 4, 2006 it wasn't my first...and yes, old habits die hard! hard to swoop the reserve too I noticed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #11 October 4, 2006 QuoteI was jumping the Tony Suit Eagle with webbie hands... I had trouble getting the hackey and a solid pull, I simply don't think I like the webbies for this reason. I also had difficulty trying to get the clips to release the wings, there is about 1 1/2 inches of material attached to the clip and that is very difficult to locate and pull when you need to most. I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned this to Tony back at Summerfest as they were concerns of mine. Since then, you and 1 other(?) from Z-hills has had a reserve ride and said the same thing about the webbies. Personally, I didn't care for them because they dug into the skin between my fingers. But my concern was the lack of tactile feedback when pulling and the added difficulty of removing your hand from them quickly. Which leads me to my next question. Why did you opt to unzip when your canopy was already spinning uncontrolably instead of immediately cutting away?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #12 October 4, 2006 It simply feels like you can't do anything with the webbies on! I had to get them off my hands...and I had time..or I would have simply chopped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #13 October 4, 2006 Quoteand I had time Not trying to be a dick here but thats what many a person thought that has either gotten injured or bounced in your same situation. Ask Chuck to tell you about his near death experience. I HIGHLY recommend that you and anyone else reevaluate their emergency procedures if they include unzipping or doing anything else other than cutting away when you find yourself on your back being spun around the sky. You lost a considerable amount of altitude considering the fact that you were under what is considered a docile canopy at a moderate loading. (this is anyone, not just Mark) If you're going to hum it down, thinking you're good because you have a docile canopy, and you don't have your EPs down as second nature, I guarentee you will do something that is useless to fix your immediate situation or hesitate and waste valuable time and altitude. Conditioning through visualization and physically doing it, to include routine practice,is the only thing that will make it second nature when things get ugly. Be safe, not sorry."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Waldschrat 0 #14 October 5, 2006 Quote nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dock Any video from this event (cutaway)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #15 October 5, 2006 Quotelost a considerable amount of altitude considering I didn't cutaway until 2000 feet, I'd say I had time. Thanks for your opinion Scott. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #16 October 5, 2006 QuoteQuote nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dock Any video from this event (cutaway)? Perry's cutaway is at the end of my Z-Flock 2.0 video, which can be found here, in the video gallery.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #17 October 5, 2006 Quoteconsidering I didn't cutaway until 2000 feet, I'd say I had time. I hear you bro. The overall point here and thing for everyone to consider, is look at the altitude you lost dicking around with your zippers when you should of been on your emergency handles immediately. Had you been lower you might not have been so lucky. The next time it happens,regardless of the altitude, your first reaction should be to go to your EPs and not waste time doing anything else. It could quite literally make the difference between a good story at the bar or a news headline. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kunstrasen 0 #18 October 5, 2006 Quote I hear you bro. The overall point here and thing for everyone to consider, is look at the altitude you lost dicking around with your zippers when you should of been on your emergency handles immediately. Had you been lower you might not have been so lucky. The next time it happens,regardless of the altitude, your first reaction should be to go to your EPs and not waste time doing anything else. It could quite literally make the difference between a good story at the bar or a news headline. Fully agree on this. If you have an obvious mal like this there is no point at all to mess around. Go to EP directly! This is the only way. There are certain things which have no room another option. EP is one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #19 October 5, 2006 Although I fully agree about EP and the need to do them asap when a canopy is messed up, nobody was there in his shoes (gloves) when this mall happened but him... With the altitude he had, and any feelings (or lack of feeling in the hands) with the wings/gloves being in the way, unzipping first doesnt sound like too crazy a thing to do...even if its only a psycological thing...you dont want to be grabbing for a reserve handle in thick gloves do you? And yes, watching the video it takes quite some time, and I too would yell 'f*ck the gloves...do the 'chop-katching' thingy first...but I wasnt there...and the gloved hands sound scary enough to me to justify what he did...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites veggie 0 #20 October 5, 2006 veggie reggie here nice that your still here ;your dission is yours at the time and yours worked for you . keep on flockin dude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #21 October 5, 2006 If your EP's include taking off your gloves....Pull high....Very high.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IslandGuy 0 #22 October 5, 2006 Mark, I thought you did fine. You had altitude and were solving the problem. Line twists happen and the first thing that comes to mind is to get untwisted, not chop it. I figure with the wing/webbies still on - it makes that job a lot harder, so get them off. Plus, if it comes time to chop, seems like webbed gloves could complicate things (don't know for sure - uncharted teritory for me). And then, if you need to use the hook knife, who knows. Lacking time and altitude, naturally, priorities change dramatically. It might be fun some weather hold to get in the training harness with the webbed-gloved wingsuit on and see what works and what doesn't - or maybe that's already been done. Thanks for sharing the video, I learn a little more from each of these events and subsequent discussions.Play like your life depends on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #23 October 5, 2006 QuoteIt might be fun some weather hold to get in the training harness with the webbed-gloved wingsuit on and see what works and what doesn't - or maybe that's already been done. That's actually a very good idea, Grey Mike! Seriously. That's something that we could knock out anytime here at the DZ. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #24 October 5, 2006 QuoteLine twists happen and the first thing that comes to mind is to get untwisted, not chop it. Great point. It is even part of the BMI training program that if you think you can fix it, you UNZIP, then FIX. And in the video it is clear that Mark did try to untwist the lines (very briefly) before realizing he could not, and then cutting away. In his defense, the spin was not very severe when he was attempting to fix it, but it was not looking great either (it got worse near the end). But it was his choice. I know people have untwisted worse before. One other point of interest, at about 0:30 you can clearly see that the risers are very uneven... this is what makes the difference between spinning linetwists, and linetwists which fly straight.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #25 October 5, 2006 QuoteOne other point of interest, at about 0:30 you can clearly see that the risers are very uneven... this is what makes the difference between spinning linetwists, and linetwists which fly straight. I noticed that right away too, Matt. Not to unload on my brother, Mark much more, but after two wingsuit chops, the first thing I do in any linetwist situation is level my links. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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TALONSKY 0 #4 October 2, 2006 Nice chop. Just a passing thought, watching the video it appears you do 2 full revolutions with your canopy pointed at the ground while your unzipping. I know with a spector loaded 1.3 that is not a critical as it would be at a high wingloading and a more aggressive wing but you could have been flying your reserve that much quicker if you went straight to the reserve after trying to kick out. Also when you unzip you no longer have control of the wings if they were to inflat when you went back into freefall. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARYPERRY 0 #5 October 3, 2006 nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dockOnly he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #6 October 3, 2006 I DON'T want to beat THAT one! thanks Perry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #7 October 4, 2006 Mark, a couple of questions. 1.What were you doing before you deployed in the beginning of the video? You initially are turning to your left but then begin spinning to the right. It looks like you were turning/carving(or dropped a shoulder) while deploying. 2.Was your main spinning from the moment you deployed? You did several revolutions and I assume you had canopy above you but at about 25sec is when you can actually hear a pop(chute inflate all the way?)and see your main above you."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #8 October 4, 2006 I have been taking some time reviewing this video along with your comments to collect my thoughts... Yes the bag was spinning bad when it came off my back...and as such I have modified the way I pack to improve that. My line stows are shorter, more free line at the end (not using the last rubber band any more either) and am considering a larger pilot chute. These issues were not a problem with my Acro, but with a significantly larger surface area of the wings on this suit they became noticable. I've had nothing but sweet openings since, and am aware of the improvements it has made - but a few other things happened that still bother me a bit. I was jumping the Tony Suit Eagle with webbie hands, and getting a solid tactile feel of the hackey coupled with reaching around the larger wing area make it a rather unsettling feeling at deployment FOR ME. I had trouble getting the hackey and a solid pull, I simply don't think I like the webbies for this reason. I also had difficulty trying to get the clips to release the wings, there is about 1 1/2 inches of material attached to the clip and that is very difficult to locate and pull when you need to most. I think I would feel better if there was a pull loop (similar to PF and BM wing cutaway loops) that were velcroed in place and not flapping around. I plan on providing my thoughts with Tony also, I just needed some time to review this and think it over, aided with the questions and feedback I have received from a lot of fellow Wingnuts. Thanks for helping me sort this out guys...I'm still learning for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #9 October 4, 2006 Was this your 1st reserve ride? Good decision on chopping that spinner , but there's no need to pull the reserve slider down before unstowing the reserve's brakes...... Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #10 October 4, 2006 it wasn't my first...and yes, old habits die hard! hard to swoop the reserve too I noticed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #11 October 4, 2006 QuoteI was jumping the Tony Suit Eagle with webbie hands... I had trouble getting the hackey and a solid pull, I simply don't think I like the webbies for this reason. I also had difficulty trying to get the clips to release the wings, there is about 1 1/2 inches of material attached to the clip and that is very difficult to locate and pull when you need to most. I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned this to Tony back at Summerfest as they were concerns of mine. Since then, you and 1 other(?) from Z-hills has had a reserve ride and said the same thing about the webbies. Personally, I didn't care for them because they dug into the skin between my fingers. But my concern was the lack of tactile feedback when pulling and the added difficulty of removing your hand from them quickly. Which leads me to my next question. Why did you opt to unzip when your canopy was already spinning uncontrolably instead of immediately cutting away?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #12 October 4, 2006 It simply feels like you can't do anything with the webbies on! I had to get them off my hands...and I had time..or I would have simply chopped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #13 October 4, 2006 Quoteand I had time Not trying to be a dick here but thats what many a person thought that has either gotten injured or bounced in your same situation. Ask Chuck to tell you about his near death experience. I HIGHLY recommend that you and anyone else reevaluate their emergency procedures if they include unzipping or doing anything else other than cutting away when you find yourself on your back being spun around the sky. You lost a considerable amount of altitude considering the fact that you were under what is considered a docile canopy at a moderate loading. (this is anyone, not just Mark) If you're going to hum it down, thinking you're good because you have a docile canopy, and you don't have your EPs down as second nature, I guarentee you will do something that is useless to fix your immediate situation or hesitate and waste valuable time and altitude. Conditioning through visualization and physically doing it, to include routine practice,is the only thing that will make it second nature when things get ugly. Be safe, not sorry."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Waldschrat 0 #14 October 5, 2006 Quote nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dock Any video from this event (cutaway)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #15 October 5, 2006 Quotelost a considerable amount of altitude considering I didn't cutaway until 2000 feet, I'd say I had time. Thanks for your opinion Scott. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #16 October 5, 2006 QuoteQuote nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dock Any video from this event (cutaway)? Perry's cutaway is at the end of my Z-Flock 2.0 video, which can be found here, in the video gallery.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #17 October 5, 2006 Quoteconsidering I didn't cutaway until 2000 feet, I'd say I had time. I hear you bro. The overall point here and thing for everyone to consider, is look at the altitude you lost dicking around with your zippers when you should of been on your emergency handles immediately. Had you been lower you might not have been so lucky. The next time it happens,regardless of the altitude, your first reaction should be to go to your EPs and not waste time doing anything else. It could quite literally make the difference between a good story at the bar or a news headline. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kunstrasen 0 #18 October 5, 2006 Quote I hear you bro. The overall point here and thing for everyone to consider, is look at the altitude you lost dicking around with your zippers when you should of been on your emergency handles immediately. Had you been lower you might not have been so lucky. The next time it happens,regardless of the altitude, your first reaction should be to go to your EPs and not waste time doing anything else. It could quite literally make the difference between a good story at the bar or a news headline. Fully agree on this. If you have an obvious mal like this there is no point at all to mess around. Go to EP directly! This is the only way. There are certain things which have no room another option. EP is one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #19 October 5, 2006 Although I fully agree about EP and the need to do them asap when a canopy is messed up, nobody was there in his shoes (gloves) when this mall happened but him... With the altitude he had, and any feelings (or lack of feeling in the hands) with the wings/gloves being in the way, unzipping first doesnt sound like too crazy a thing to do...even if its only a psycological thing...you dont want to be grabbing for a reserve handle in thick gloves do you? And yes, watching the video it takes quite some time, and I too would yell 'f*ck the gloves...do the 'chop-katching' thingy first...but I wasnt there...and the gloved hands sound scary enough to me to justify what he did...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites veggie 0 #20 October 5, 2006 veggie reggie here nice that your still here ;your dission is yours at the time and yours worked for you . keep on flockin dude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeordieSkydiver 0 #21 October 5, 2006 If your EP's include taking off your gloves....Pull high....Very high.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IslandGuy 0 #22 October 5, 2006 Mark, I thought you did fine. You had altitude and were solving the problem. Line twists happen and the first thing that comes to mind is to get untwisted, not chop it. I figure with the wing/webbies still on - it makes that job a lot harder, so get them off. Plus, if it comes time to chop, seems like webbed gloves could complicate things (don't know for sure - uncharted teritory for me). And then, if you need to use the hook knife, who knows. Lacking time and altitude, naturally, priorities change dramatically. It might be fun some weather hold to get in the training harness with the webbed-gloved wingsuit on and see what works and what doesn't - or maybe that's already been done. Thanks for sharing the video, I learn a little more from each of these events and subsequent discussions.Play like your life depends on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #23 October 5, 2006 QuoteIt might be fun some weather hold to get in the training harness with the webbed-gloved wingsuit on and see what works and what doesn't - or maybe that's already been done. That's actually a very good idea, Grey Mike! Seriously. That's something that we could knock out anytime here at the DZ. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #24 October 5, 2006 QuoteLine twists happen and the first thing that comes to mind is to get untwisted, not chop it. Great point. It is even part of the BMI training program that if you think you can fix it, you UNZIP, then FIX. And in the video it is clear that Mark did try to untwist the lines (very briefly) before realizing he could not, and then cutting away. In his defense, the spin was not very severe when he was attempting to fix it, but it was not looking great either (it got worse near the end). But it was his choice. I know people have untwisted worse before. One other point of interest, at about 0:30 you can clearly see that the risers are very uneven... this is what makes the difference between spinning linetwists, and linetwists which fly straight.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #25 October 5, 2006 QuoteOne other point of interest, at about 0:30 you can clearly see that the risers are very uneven... this is what makes the difference between spinning linetwists, and linetwists which fly straight. I noticed that right away too, Matt. Not to unload on my brother, Mark much more, but after two wingsuit chops, the first thing I do in any linetwist situation is level my links. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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LouDiamond 1 #7 October 4, 2006 Mark, a couple of questions. 1.What were you doing before you deployed in the beginning of the video? You initially are turning to your left but then begin spinning to the right. It looks like you were turning/carving(or dropped a shoulder) while deploying. 2.Was your main spinning from the moment you deployed? You did several revolutions and I assume you had canopy above you but at about 25sec is when you can actually hear a pop(chute inflate all the way?)and see your main above you."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #8 October 4, 2006 I have been taking some time reviewing this video along with your comments to collect my thoughts... Yes the bag was spinning bad when it came off my back...and as such I have modified the way I pack to improve that. My line stows are shorter, more free line at the end (not using the last rubber band any more either) and am considering a larger pilot chute. These issues were not a problem with my Acro, but with a significantly larger surface area of the wings on this suit they became noticable. I've had nothing but sweet openings since, and am aware of the improvements it has made - but a few other things happened that still bother me a bit. I was jumping the Tony Suit Eagle with webbie hands, and getting a solid tactile feel of the hackey coupled with reaching around the larger wing area make it a rather unsettling feeling at deployment FOR ME. I had trouble getting the hackey and a solid pull, I simply don't think I like the webbies for this reason. I also had difficulty trying to get the clips to release the wings, there is about 1 1/2 inches of material attached to the clip and that is very difficult to locate and pull when you need to most. I think I would feel better if there was a pull loop (similar to PF and BM wing cutaway loops) that were velcroed in place and not flapping around. I plan on providing my thoughts with Tony also, I just needed some time to review this and think it over, aided with the questions and feedback I have received from a lot of fellow Wingnuts. Thanks for helping me sort this out guys...I'm still learning for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #9 October 4, 2006 Was this your 1st reserve ride? Good decision on chopping that spinner , but there's no need to pull the reserve slider down before unstowing the reserve's brakes...... Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #10 October 4, 2006 it wasn't my first...and yes, old habits die hard! hard to swoop the reserve too I noticed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #11 October 4, 2006 QuoteI was jumping the Tony Suit Eagle with webbie hands... I had trouble getting the hackey and a solid pull, I simply don't think I like the webbies for this reason. I also had difficulty trying to get the clips to release the wings, there is about 1 1/2 inches of material attached to the clip and that is very difficult to locate and pull when you need to most. I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned this to Tony back at Summerfest as they were concerns of mine. Since then, you and 1 other(?) from Z-hills has had a reserve ride and said the same thing about the webbies. Personally, I didn't care for them because they dug into the skin between my fingers. But my concern was the lack of tactile feedback when pulling and the added difficulty of removing your hand from them quickly. Which leads me to my next question. Why did you opt to unzip when your canopy was already spinning uncontrolably instead of immediately cutting away?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #12 October 4, 2006 It simply feels like you can't do anything with the webbies on! I had to get them off my hands...and I had time..or I would have simply chopped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #13 October 4, 2006 Quoteand I had time Not trying to be a dick here but thats what many a person thought that has either gotten injured or bounced in your same situation. Ask Chuck to tell you about his near death experience. I HIGHLY recommend that you and anyone else reevaluate their emergency procedures if they include unzipping or doing anything else other than cutting away when you find yourself on your back being spun around the sky. You lost a considerable amount of altitude considering the fact that you were under what is considered a docile canopy at a moderate loading. (this is anyone, not just Mark) If you're going to hum it down, thinking you're good because you have a docile canopy, and you don't have your EPs down as second nature, I guarentee you will do something that is useless to fix your immediate situation or hesitate and waste valuable time and altitude. Conditioning through visualization and physically doing it, to include routine practice,is the only thing that will make it second nature when things get ugly. Be safe, not sorry."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #14 October 5, 2006 Quote nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dock Any video from this event (cutaway)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #15 October 5, 2006 Quotelost a considerable amount of altitude considering I didn't cutaway until 2000 feet, I'd say I had time. Thanks for your opinion Scott. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #16 October 5, 2006 QuoteQuote nice one!!! see you can learn from a malfunction "junkie" ha ha nice save hum it a bit lower, you still cant beat mine at flock n dock Any video from this event (cutaway)? Perry's cutaway is at the end of my Z-Flock 2.0 video, which can be found here, in the video gallery.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #17 October 5, 2006 Quoteconsidering I didn't cutaway until 2000 feet, I'd say I had time. I hear you bro. The overall point here and thing for everyone to consider, is look at the altitude you lost dicking around with your zippers when you should of been on your emergency handles immediately. Had you been lower you might not have been so lucky. The next time it happens,regardless of the altitude, your first reaction should be to go to your EPs and not waste time doing anything else. It could quite literally make the difference between a good story at the bar or a news headline. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kunstrasen 0 #18 October 5, 2006 Quote I hear you bro. The overall point here and thing for everyone to consider, is look at the altitude you lost dicking around with your zippers when you should of been on your emergency handles immediately. Had you been lower you might not have been so lucky. The next time it happens,regardless of the altitude, your first reaction should be to go to your EPs and not waste time doing anything else. It could quite literally make the difference between a good story at the bar or a news headline. Fully agree on this. If you have an obvious mal like this there is no point at all to mess around. Go to EP directly! This is the only way. There are certain things which have no room another option. EP is one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #19 October 5, 2006 Although I fully agree about EP and the need to do them asap when a canopy is messed up, nobody was there in his shoes (gloves) when this mall happened but him... With the altitude he had, and any feelings (or lack of feeling in the hands) with the wings/gloves being in the way, unzipping first doesnt sound like too crazy a thing to do...even if its only a psycological thing...you dont want to be grabbing for a reserve handle in thick gloves do you? And yes, watching the video it takes quite some time, and I too would yell 'f*ck the gloves...do the 'chop-katching' thingy first...but I wasnt there...and the gloved hands sound scary enough to me to justify what he did...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veggie 0 #20 October 5, 2006 veggie reggie here nice that your still here ;your dission is yours at the time and yours worked for you . keep on flockin dude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #21 October 5, 2006 If your EP's include taking off your gloves....Pull high....Very high.Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IslandGuy 0 #22 October 5, 2006 Mark, I thought you did fine. You had altitude and were solving the problem. Line twists happen and the first thing that comes to mind is to get untwisted, not chop it. I figure with the wing/webbies still on - it makes that job a lot harder, so get them off. Plus, if it comes time to chop, seems like webbed gloves could complicate things (don't know for sure - uncharted teritory for me). And then, if you need to use the hook knife, who knows. Lacking time and altitude, naturally, priorities change dramatically. It might be fun some weather hold to get in the training harness with the webbed-gloved wingsuit on and see what works and what doesn't - or maybe that's already been done. Thanks for sharing the video, I learn a little more from each of these events and subsequent discussions.Play like your life depends on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #23 October 5, 2006 QuoteIt might be fun some weather hold to get in the training harness with the webbed-gloved wingsuit on and see what works and what doesn't - or maybe that's already been done. That's actually a very good idea, Grey Mike! Seriously. That's something that we could knock out anytime here at the DZ. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #24 October 5, 2006 QuoteLine twists happen and the first thing that comes to mind is to get untwisted, not chop it. Great point. It is even part of the BMI training program that if you think you can fix it, you UNZIP, then FIX. And in the video it is clear that Mark did try to untwist the lines (very briefly) before realizing he could not, and then cutting away. In his defense, the spin was not very severe when he was attempting to fix it, but it was not looking great either (it got worse near the end). But it was his choice. I know people have untwisted worse before. One other point of interest, at about 0:30 you can clearly see that the risers are very uneven... this is what makes the difference between spinning linetwists, and linetwists which fly straight.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #25 October 5, 2006 QuoteOne other point of interest, at about 0:30 you can clearly see that the risers are very uneven... this is what makes the difference between spinning linetwists, and linetwists which fly straight. I noticed that right away too, Matt. Not to unload on my brother, Mark much more, but after two wingsuit chops, the first thing I do in any linetwist situation is level my links. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
