What I really want

[TomAiello 25]

What do you want to see in a wingsuit? Cue the smartass with "landing gear", but let's ignore that and be serious.

What I want is a wingsuit that is totally integrated into the harness and container (or vice versa, if you prefer). So that there's no extra drag from riser covers, no oddness with handles, and no aerodynamic problems where the container meets the wings. Just seamless integration. I bet it'd be pretty pricey to do it with a skydiving rig, but not impossible--and I bet Birdman has the contacts to launch such a thing. The market is smaller, but the legal hurdles less (and I know Phoenix Fly has the established partnerships for this) if you did it with BASE gear (plus, imagine the drag reduction with no handles).

So come on, who's going to step up and make this thing?

Oh, yeah, and I want it to have CARBONFUCKINGFIBER!

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Professor 0]

Actually, I'd like to see a suit expressly tailored toward flocking. No grippers, so I can take docks, or better yet, small grippers, which can be used for a quick performance gains, and as ailerons, or to "pull in some flaps", but aren't neccessary for anything but max performance. Sort of like somebody's (Scott Campos'?) idea of adding grippers to the trailing edge of a GTi wing. Also, more range, as oppessed to more glide, would be nice. I'd like a suit that can fly as easily with light, experienced people riding a stall, as it can with crazy first jump students or big, experienced guys in big suits outrunning traffic. Also, if it didn't try to tear off my arms, and was easy to manage in a small plane, that'd be nice too.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Sort of like somebody's idea of adding grippers to the trailing edge of a GTi wing.

You mean like Performance Wingsuit Extentions, that can be used on Classics also?



Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Professor 0]

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You mean like Performance Wingsuit Extentions, that can be used on Classics also?

Actually, no. I want something that won't flap when I let go of it, but would still allow me the option of adding a little performance, and controlling my wingtips, when I want too.

BTW, you're Johnny On The Spot responding to me when I'm not trying to bait you out. Touché.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[The111 1]

My S3 grippers don't flap if I let them go. This weekend I took a solid 20+ second dock with a new flyer in a GTI. We turned and accelerated while holding the dock with very little tension. One of the coolest wingsuit experiences I've had yet...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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You mean like Performance Wingsuit Extentions, that can be used on Classics also?

Actually, no. I want something that won't flap when I let go of it, but would still allow me the option of adding a little performance, and controlling my wingtips, when I want too.

BTW, you're Johnny On The Spot responding to me when I'm not trying to bait you out. Touché.

The Extentions dont flap if the arm position is correct. They are easily regrabbbed after you get some experience.

Have you ever put out, what's it called, bait?



Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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My S3 grippers don't flap if I let them go. This weekend I took a solid 20+ second dock with a new flyer in a GTI. We turned and accelerated while holding the dock with very little tension. One of the coolest wingsuit experiences I've had yet...

Like Matt said; there is no flap in an S3 if you are flying with your arms in the correct position. Cancer Chris hardly ever grabs his grippers.

[kevin922 0]

I was actually talking with someone (i think Yuri?) about seamless integration into a rig.. the consensus is there isn't a market for a "sewn" rig/wingsuit combo but if they could come up with a detachable system that more closely integrates the wingsuit / rig it would probably work. My idea was a zipper system where you can zip the wingsuit directly to the rig. Those zippers that Matter is so proud of may actually be good for this.

What do I want? Hmm.. i'd like for the growing animosity between wingsuit manufacturers to disappear..

as far as wingsuit design - i think more experimentation with multi stage flight - i.e. being able to signficantly change the flight characteristics of the wingsuit while in flight will be pretty slick. I'd like to see development of something that allows you to maintain a desired body position with little strenuous activity (some type of brace system or something)

[unclecharlie95 3]

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there isn't a market for a "sewn" rig/wingsuit combo

GS1 is already a step in this direction.

Well there are at least 2 people interested, you and Yuri

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something that allows you to maintain a desired body position with little strenuous activity (some type of brace system or something)

hmmm, this sounds like you are moving towards a hang glider to me, but seriously this would change the whole sensation of wingsuit flight, restricting your movement etc.

J

BASEstore.it

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

That's a really good point, James! Seriously. If people are fascinated by "things more rigid" then they really ought to try hang gliding. You can do some phenomenal stuff under a kite and you can get the best thing on the market for the same as you would pay for a new rig.

Likewise; sorry for the hijack; people wanting to fly canopies down mountains would probably be much happier if they took up parapente. The canopies are easier to launch, they stay up forever, and you can do some sick tricks with them. Once again, less than the cost of a rig for the very best one on the market.

I don't think it's right to pigeon-hole yourself into one sport if what you are really looking for can be better achieved in a similar, yet totally different venue.

Chuck

[kevin922 0]

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there isn't a market for a "sewn" rig/wingsuit combo

GS1 is already a step in this direction.

Well there are at least 2 people interested, you and Yuri

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something that allows you to maintain a desired body position with little strenuous activity (some type of brace system or something)

hmmm, this sounds like you are moving towards a hang glider to me, but seriously this would change the whole sensation of wingsuit flight, restricting your movement etc.

J

Yes, yes... i've heard the whole "you're re-inventing hang gliding" argument... so what if you are? What if it evolves into some other sport? Using a power kite to surf with (kite surfing) could have been considered re-inventing wind surfing to some extent. I'm sure there are other examples of this, I did kite buggying which was similar to land surfing but with a kite.

As far as the sewn rig/wingsuit combo.. yes a one piece mfg. wingsuit/rig would be pricey.. I think modifications so that you can zip on the suit to the rig is very doable at a low cost.

[bodypilot1 0]

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i'd like for the growing animosity between wingsuit manufacturers to disappear..

So true Kevin, but it's not the manufaturers that are causing the anomosity, just a few people that fly wingsuits.
It should stop hopefully when people realize that there is going to be the need for multi wingsuits for the different things they choose to do when in a wingsuit, and that there will never be a "best" wingsuit, as the pilots skills will always be the determining factor.



Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[The111 1]

I think it will go away with time, and as more suits and companies emerge. You never hear this kind of stuff in the canopy or container world.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mccordia 73]

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You never hear this kind of stuff in the canopy or container world.

Wow...what DZ are you jumping?
I think (especialy with new 'rivaling' products) the container and canopy market are completely the same...

There's always someone with brand X canopy, trashing someone with brand Y canpopy cause he knew a guy who had a sister who dated this one guy who knew someone that flew that canopy and screwed up on landing, so the brand Y canopy sucks and his canopy is great, cause he has already had 5 standup landings in a row..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Brains 2]

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and that there will never be a "best" wingsuit, as the pilots skills will always be the determining factor.

Pardon the intrusion, as i am not a wingsuit pilot. However, this statement I think needs to read that the pilots skills and experience will always be the determining factor. For an example, look at the pro canopy pilots.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[TomAiello 25]

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i'd like for the growing animosity between wingsuit manufacturers to disappear..

So true Kevin, but it's not the manufaturers that are causing the anomosity, just a few people that fly wingsuits.

So true. I have yet to see Jari, or Robi, or Cate, or Maria, or anyone else who actually makes the suits, getting on here talking smack. It's all coming from much lower down the food chain. I think the folks making the suits are probably too busy building better suits for us all.

I even once had a private conversation with a manufacturer in which I tried to get him to say negative things about another. He just wouldn't do it.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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I think it will go away with time, and as more suits and companies emerge. You never hear this kind of stuff in the canopy or container world.

You hear it in the canopy and container market, but it's surely less.

Maybe it will stop after the they get smoked by a wingsuit pilot that jumps a suit/manufacterer they chosen to degrade, or when they realize that wingsuit buying and flying isn't a competition.....



Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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and that there will never be a "best" wingsuit, as the pilots skills will always be the determining factor.

Pardon the intrusion, as i am not a wingsuit pilot. However, this statement I think needs to read that the pilots skills and experience will always be the determining factor. For an example, look at the pro canopy pilots.

Not an intrusion.
With the experince and training, the skills will come.

Wingsuits aren't hard to fly at all.
Anyone can basicaly go out and do solo's and get the body positioning correct for maxing the suit out, but once they try and do some flocking with other wingsuit flyers after getting tired of doing solo's, they soon find themselves floundering in the suit and unsure of how to use all their controlling surfaces/wings.


Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[unclecharlie95 3]

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but once they try and do some flocking with other wingsuit flyers after getting tired of doing solo's, they soon find themselves floundering in the suit

This is true, to some extent, but I have also seen many newbies who have been able to "flock" right from their first flight and even make controlled docks.

It depends on the skill set the pilot has when they start wingsuit flying. Trackers for example already have an excellent feeling &understanding for flying relative, braking and positioning whilst following a trajectory.

Regardless it is always prudent to start with small way flocks and gradually work up to those multi-plane flocks

BASEstore.it

[bodypilot1 0]

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It depends on the skill set the pilot has when they start wingsuit flying. Trackers for example already have an excellent feeling &understanding for flying relative, braking and positioning whilst following a trajectory.

Excellent point.

But the "floundering" or lack of control can be seen also on some experienced pilots, as they have chosen a suit with the largest wing/surface area, because they think it will make them fly better, and yet the suit flys them.....

Finding the suit that fits their flying style the best, if they only choose to have one, may limit the things they can do if they dont train/practice regularly in that suit.

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Regardless it is always prudent to start with small way flocks and gradually work up to those multi-plane flocks

Definitly without a dout.


Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

Wingsuits aren't hard to fly at all.
Anyone can basicaly go out and do solo's and get the body positioning correct for maxing the suit out,
Be safe!
Ed

[voodew1 0]

Oh wait!!!!!! never mind

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[bodypilot1 0]

Glen, glen, glen......you need to get out more often my friend.




Be safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

So true Ed, this has been a slow flight year. Not to be confused with a "slow flight" year. But good news, I'll be headed up this weekend to Skydive Oregon. Might even do some flocking if that doesn't stir up suspicious looks.


Which leads me back to the original topic of this thread: What do you want in a wingsuit?

I need a suit with invisible wings so as not to get that distrustful vibe from S&TA, DZO. The suit will look like a freefly suit with extra zippers.

What do you guys think about its marketability? Will there be demand for it? Not us boss, we not flocking just doing a horny gorilla, trust me.

[nicknitro71 0]

Suit-harness-container integration only applies to BASE. I would love a suit that has a built in harness container to hook up my BASE canopy. I'd get one in a heart beat.

As for the suit: about a constant 120mph forward and 20 mph vertical speed? A true 6:1 glide ratio? Is that even theoretically possible? I don't care much for flocking, I'm all for performance: faster, flatter, longer without being to hard too fly. Maybe in a decade or so...

Memento Audere Semper

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