Tube stows or rubber bands?

[vonSanta 0]

Read this article and the author stresses that rubber bands are better because they break.

I use tube stows (find 'em more convenient). Should I drop them and use normal rubber bands?

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[D22369 0]

sure.........where was this article before I had my baglock ..........

tube stows------- bad juju

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[lazyfrog 0]

I know I shouldn't but I use a mix of what I find... And tube stoes break too... but usually when you pack

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Fumer tue, péter pue
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ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

[Shivon 0]

Probably a good question for the riggers out there.

Aren't tube stowed TSO'd to a specific standard (or something similar). Weren't they comprehensively tested, and approved, for use in place of rubber bands?

[mr2mk1g 10]

Tube stows should not break – they should roll off the lines. If they are breaking when you pack then you are using knackered tube stows and should replace them more often.

Look at them when you pack and if they are getting tired replace them before they cause problems. Try to replace them symmetrically as a new one opposite an old one can cause line twists.

[Tonto 1]

Bungies. Tube stows... not so good...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[karlm 0]

Never used tube stows, find them hard to pack lines with, when packing a rig with them.

Always used normsl rubber bands (get the soft silicone coated ones, not the dry powder ones) they work the best.

Oh, and they are cheaper

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[skydive84 0]

Try staples

[skybytch 259]

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Try staples

This is a topical forum. Please keep the smart ass comments to TalkBack. They do nothing but add noise here. Thanks.

[Hazarrd 1]

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Always used normsl rubber bands (get the soft silicone coated ones, not the dry powder ones) they work the best.

Oh, and they are cheaper

Where do u find the "soft silicone coates ones" ?

.-.

[rigging65 0]

Personally, I use a stowless D-bag, but before that I was really impressed with SkyBandz (the black rubber-band-like stow bands). They seem to last a long time, have the advantages of flat stow-bands and really aren't very expensive.

The advantages of flat-stows, as has been mentioned, is that they are flat...so they stay in place better than round-style stow-bands do.

Not trying to hijack the thread here, but it should be noted that stows are banded in place for two simple reasons. First - to keep lines in order. Second - to keep the D-bag closed until you want it opened. The rate at which your lines clear their bands has NOTHING to do with slowing down your openings...short of keeping your D-bag from coming open prematurely.

This has been in several threads before but for the un-initiated, you have line-stows (which keep the lines in order) and locking-stows (which, most importantly, keeps the D-bag closed, but also keeps the last of your lines in order). You're just fine (usually) with or without line-stows...locking-stows are another matter all together.

The locking-stows are where the rubber meets the road. They are the difference between a proper, sequential opening and getting your world rocked to the point of structure failure and/or bodily injury.

There are old wives-tales that tell you that double-wrapping your line-stows will slow your openings...wrong...but double wrapping your locking-stows can cause bag lock...once in a while.

Again, not trying to hijack the thread here, but keep in mind that stow-bands should be nice and tight and flat. Keeping your locking-stows down to one wrap is never a bad idea. If you need to double wrap, it's a better idea to move to a smaller diameter stow band.

If anyone out there has more questions in regards to how a premature D-bag opening can cause hard openings, do a search, start another thread or PM me and I'll fill you in!

Sorry! I'll let you have your thread back now!....

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[DBCOOPER 1]

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I was really impressed with SkyBandz (the black rubber-band-like stow bands

Watching a bigway at Rantoul,noticed a reserve out.Grabbed a beer and the golf cart and went to get him. He was baglocked with one of those

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black rubber-band-like stow bands

Use to use them myself.Last a long time.Then somebody convinced me to use something that would break rather than lock.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[AggieDave 6]

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The rate at which your lines clear their bands has NOTHING to do with slowing down your openings...short of keeping your D-bag from coming open prematurely.

Right, but if the bag opens prematurely, you'll have the worst opening of your life. I'd rather have a baglock, atleast you can cutaway from that...line dump might give you an opening so hard you can't do anything but sprial in under a broken canopy.


I tend to agree with what Relative Workshop recommends. They recommend tube stows for your locking stows and small rubber bands (for micro line) for the rest fo your stows. They have a neat video showing how the bag excellerates and why you want the locking stows to be tube stows, to prevent breakadge, but the rest of the bands to be regular rubberbands to promote breakage if need be.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Aviatrr 0]

I used to use tube stows....until I ended up with a bag lock. When we recovered the main it was still in the D-bag. Apparently, the fairly new packer was using VERY LARGE line bites, which allowed one of the line groups to pass through another one. That big, nasty knot was pulled up against the tube stow on the first(in order of opening) of three locking stows.

I use plain old rubber bands now. I replace one every three or four jumps at the most. No big deal. At least they will break when you need them to.

Mike

[Hooknswoop 19]

I have used tube stows for 2000+ jumps, no bag locks. My one back lock was on a tandem and it locked because the rubber bands had been double-wrapped.

Derek

[fundgh 0]

So is it your thinking that if you had used regular rubber bands, it would have broken and you would have had a normal deployment? I am not an expert, but it seems that the problem was with the line bite, and not the type of stow used.

FWIW- I use a combination of tube stows and rubber bands. My locking stows are tube stows, and the others are rubber bands, and I have always had good openings and good line stowing.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[Chrisky 0]

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They have a neat video showing how the bag excellerates and why you want the locking stows to be tube stows, to prevent breakadge, but the rest of the bands to be regular rubberbands to promote breakage if need be.

Clicky?

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[BASE813 0]

I do not believe that the type of band you use will prevent a bag lock. the fact is a bag lock is normally caused by a line of one bite passing over another bite. the band is not going to break as the tension is on the lines and not on the band.

I have seen stowless DB's and think they are a marvellous idea......... has anyone using this system found any problems with it? and out of curiosity did it in fact increase your on-heading performance?

[AggieDave 6]

I don't think its on the web...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[vonSanta 0]

Very interesting arguments so far. If anyone has more, add them. I'm not wholly convinced one way or another, as there seems to be some disagreement on this issue.

As a newbie you like everything to be clear - black vs white. I'm not so dumb I think this is always the case. Perhaps this is a contentious issue?

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[BASE813 0]

the only issue i think is premature deployment............. that will hurt.

with the forces involved with deployment at terminal really make a difference to whether you have double stowed or not??

bag locks are not nice obviously - but can they really be put down to tube stow V rubber band stow?

i would be interested to hear if some one has "really" had a bag lock due to the type of band they had used! surely the drag from the PC is giving enough snatch to overcome a tight bungy/tight tube stow??? - maybe your PC was fucking shit???

just my thoughts!?!?!

[rigging65 0]

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I have seen stowless DB's and think they are a marvellous idea......... has anyone using this system found any problems with it? and out of curiosity did it in fact increase your on-heading performance?

The only real problem I have with them is that they limit how much (or how little) canopy you can put in the bag. Since the tabs have to fit into their slots at a given location (ie- there is no stretch, like you would find with rubber bands), you're limited a bit in changing canopy sizes. If you're pretty much set in your canopy size, this is no big deal.

Of course, since they are still new, you might have issues with packers. I don't use packers, so I can't really comment on that.

As for the deployments, I haven't noticed any change with how my Xaos opens. Still sweet, beautiful and on heading. Packing is a bit faster, once you get the hang of it, but not by all that much.

I've said this before, but I really think the stowless D-bag is pretty much a gimic that doesn't have a real place in main-stream skydiving. Fun, but nothing revolutionary.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[diablopilot 2]

Ok, for the $7 you'll pay for a bag of tube stows I can buy a couple years worth of rubber bands.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[vonSanta 0]

Mm very true, they are pricey. They also last a lot longer than normal rubber bands. And (for me) they make stowing the lines faster and easier.

I'm prepared to pay for that. However, if they're less safe than normal rubber bands, I'll go for those even though they're more hassle when it comes to packing.

Oh and it' SO skydiver-ish to whine and complain about $5-$10 and then go shell out $200 on a weekend's worth of jumps .

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[Aviatrr 0]

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So is it your thinking that if you had used regular rubber bands, it would have broken and you would have had a normal deployment? I am not an expert, but it seems that the problem was with the line bite, and not the type of stow used.

After we recovered the main, I tried grabbing the lines, putting a foot on the D bag, and pull. I saw the tube stow flex, but not give. I then replaced it with a rubber band, re-created the problem, then did the same. The band broke. Was I putting more force on it than a pilot chute would? I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. It may not be enough to convince you, but it was more than enough to convince me(and quite a few others standing around watching me).

Mike