andy2 0 #1 May 12, 2003 I am excited to start crew, I am a complete beginner at skydiving though, not even through AFF. I take it you need at least 50 or so jumps, to start CREW? I am content with this, as I know it will still be fun by jump 50, perfecting my canopy skills, and just freefalling. I plan to pull high-ish on my beginning jumps to perfect my canopy control skills. What else should I be doing in this interim between student status and when I actually start doing CReW jumps, besides pulling high and becoming familiar with canopy control to be as ready as possible when I fly with the dogs? I can't think of anything else that would benefit me besides pulling real high and messing around alone. Also, one more question, I know for BASE its a good idea to get your BASE canopy and use it in a skydiving setting to get used to it. I think though with CReW don't you need to have the same canopy as your CReW buddies? So, there's no way, barring meeting the people I will be doing CReW with when I gain experience, to know what canopy I should buy now and be able to play around with it and get used to it. I ask this because I am on an extreme budget, and would like to buy my CReW canopy now, as my first skydiving canopy, and get REALLY used to it so its second nature by the time I start CReW. I am 5'7" 125 pounds (lightweight, I know!) if that's any help for the canopy thing. I really would like to just get the canopy that I'll be using for CReW, cause I doubt I'll have enough $ to buy 2 main canopies. Thanks for your help, this forum has helped me a lot so far. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 May 12, 2003 Look around at the recomendations on what to use for a CRW canoy. Lightnings are the prefred canopy for big ways and most the US teams use them. Lightnings SUCK at terminal and I'd advise not doing that if you can avoid it. Tri's work nice for CRW too as long as they are set up for it. I've never jumped one in a stack so I can't tell you how they fly. Most CRW dawgs I know have 3 or 4 CRW canopies so the can mix and match to get the canopy that will fly best with the rest of the group. And not many people use their CRW canopies as their full time freefall canopies. Wendy is I think Smaller then you so she might be able to help you out on the canopy sizing. *Just bought my own Lightning 160 Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #3 May 12, 2003 I only have a few CReW jumps, but I just wanted to point out that CReW canopies dont just suck at terminal openings they also can do serious damage to anyone opening at terminal. Depending on if it is setup with a deployment bag or with out one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #4 May 12, 2003 Well, the best you can hope to do right after student status is buy a canopy like a Triathalon or a Spectre. In general, we tend to load our main CRW canopies heavier than I would ever put someone with 20 jumps on. I would never be able to recommend to someone at your number of jumps a "true" CRW canopy like we use because you'd be too likely to get hurt, and you don't want to take them to terminal. HOWEVER, the Lightning I jump (130 lbs, a Lightning 113), is compatible for simple stacks and that sort of thing, with all sorts of different canopies. I jump with people all the time on Spectres at a variety of wing-loadings. A couple of weeks ago I did a girl's first 3 CRW jumps (jumps 20,21 and 22 for her) and she was jumping on a Rascal 235. We're not perfectly matched, but we can do basic rotations and stacks and downplanes and such. So what I would suggest for you is looking into buying a Spectre or a Triathalon. You're going to want to talk to your instructors about what size might be appropriate - because that can vary a LOT for a beginner depending on your skills, what canopies you've been flying, how much training your dz does on canopy control etc. And I can't make any kind of informed judgement without seeing you fly. But a 7-cell is a good safe canopy and they're good for CRW and we can work around wing-loading issues. Its most important that you get a safe first canopy - rather than the perfect one for later. Because if you get the perfect one for later, odds are high you're gonna break a bone on it before later ever comes. Buy a canopy you can learn and make mistakes on now, and downsize later. As for practicing - a lot of the stuff on the new A-license proficiency card can be helpful. Learn how your front-risers fly and your rear risers fly and turn and all that good stuff. Where do you jump? There might be some CRWdogs in your area you can talk to. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #5 May 12, 2003 hey thanks, that was great information! I jump at the skydiving place, in parkton, NC. I am still doing AFF, but I feel like Ive got a real good handle on landings and such, and basic canopy flying. Of course, theres so much more I need to learn! I love flying my canopy, and can't wait until I get off AFF and can get my own appropriately sized canopy. I guess right now the most important thing like you folks said is concentrate on getting safe gear for me, and not what will be optimum to use when I have more experience. Thanks, I'm sure I will have more questions to ask about CRW, it seems really exciting! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #6 May 12, 2003 Ok. I know there's at least 1 good CRWdog based out at Raeford, and most likely others. Know several in Virginia as well.. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CRWBUDDHA 0 #7 May 12, 2003 Hey Andy, As you are involved in your training, why not finish that first and accept the fact that you must crawl before you can walk. If you cannot hold your patience and give your complete and utter attention to your instructor and the DZ and your training, crawling as it may be, how long do you actually think you will progress in CRW or any jumping descipline, all of which require perfect practice to become perfect. You might be well advised to present your desires and interests to your DZ and instructor AFTER you have demonstrated that they have done their task well and you can demonstrate everything they taught you, PERFECTLY, EVERY TIME, NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITIONS. Perhaps when you recall your lifes education thus far, you will remember that you learned every skill you have from the square one position up to the present..though you may have wished to jump around and change the disciplines yourself, I think you will agree that your instructors didn't. Learning is a linear process and practical application a spatial one......Won't you agree that if CRW or any other aspect of this sport is worth doing then it must be worth doing well? Please continue asking for information that can be supported with published facts and you will learn a great deal faster . Information based on experiences or testimonials will be just that, remember , unless you were there doing what was shared with you at the exact same time and circumstances and unless you have experienced similar situations yourself, at this point in your training, you are not being well served at all. Many of us will be delighted to share our experiences with you at a time when it will be worth something and good for you know, absorb and put to practical use. Until that time, please continue to be excited, get ahold of any films, videos, books and reports you can and devour them over and over.....However, KEEP FOCUSED ON YOUR BASIC TRAINING AND SHOW RESPECT TO THOSE WHO WOULD PREVENT YOU FROM KILLING YOURSELF FOR LACK OF TRAINING ............. WendyFaulkner can be reached through Faulkner @boxofclue.com. This is a very grand place to go for factual published information along with the equipment manufacturers listed in parachutist magazine. "WAX ON..........WAX OFF........." . Best of Results with your quest. CRWBUDDHA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 May 12, 2003 >factual published information along with the equipment manufacturers listed in parachutist magazine. There is a manufactor out there that I tried to get info ontheir CRW canopies and they did'nt know enough about them to bother dealing with. Places like this with CRWMike, Wendy, Chris Warnock and others that are out doing CRW all the time have more info then some of the manufactors.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #9 June 21, 2003 QuoteI know for BASE its a good idea to get your BASE canopy and use it in a skydiving setting to get used to it. I think though with CReW don't you need to have the same canopy as your CReW buddies? I've done both Mojo and FOX CRW. I know it's non-standard (and I'm pretty much a CRW neophyte), but it really helped me gain some "close quarters" canopy skills on those canopies in a (relatively) safe environment. That said, be sure you have a real CRW (not BASE) jumper around to supervise. I know a reasonable amount about the fixed object stuff, but what I don't know about CRW would fill several books. I suspect that most other BASE jumpers are the same way, and being the arrogant bastards we are, we're unlikely to admit to a student that we really don't know what the heck we're doing (I mean, who'd have thunk that teeny little pilot chute could create so many problems?).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sikorsky 0 #10 June 21, 2003 I learned with a 6" nerf ball --took (2). deployed & let it go, spun around and flew towards it using just about any combination of front/rear risers, toggles. You'll pass it, bump into it and have to turn around over & over till you can catch it in your hands. Hint --you'll learn a lot more if you never take your hands out of your toggles. Caution --be sure you are the only one in the air because you will fixate on the ball. This will teach you to react quckly. Experience will be your guide to avoiding collisions, wraps, entanglements, etc doing CRW. When you can catch the ball your'e ready to get in the air with other canopies. Look for someone who can teach you the dives listed at www.dqnt.com/acc.htm and who can keep you safe while doing them. If you just show up at a crew camp, make some docks and get on a larger load --don't let that fool you that you are ready for it. Shit happens and you need to be mentally prepared for it --take things slow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #11 June 21, 2003 How does the nerf ball thing work? what do you do with it?-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sikorsky 0 #12 June 21, 2003 It works well. I personally hold in in my teeth under canopy, turn my head to the side and spit it out, turning and keeping my eyes on it. If I pass it by, level, I'll turn with a wide (slow) both-rear riser and come back high on it and so forth --hard to remeber the details, try stalling before you get there and see what the ball does to you. It has a mind of its own. You will learn 'something' quickly or may just have fun --take a few extra balls the 1st time, and don't try it with other canopies around or you might lose focus or worse yet --consiousness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #13 June 26, 2003 The nerf ball doesn't just ... drop? I don't understand this either. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #14 June 26, 2003 The Nerf ball falls, but it takes random movements in its falling. Every see Plinko on Price is right? As the chip falls at different angles it takes off in different directions. Another cool canopy exercise that might be better if your jumping over an area that you can't really drop something even like a nerf ball is toliet paper. Chuck a long streamer out under canopy and let it fall a bit before chasing it down. Try and bump it with just an end cell, then try and catch it with just a toe with out it touching your canopy. Plenty of canopy exercises can be done if you use it as a target.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #15 June 26, 2003 So is the point that you have to dive after it under canopy? How fast do you have to dive to keep up with it?A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #16 June 26, 2003 QuoteLook for someone who can teach you the dives listed at www.dqnt.com/acc.htm and who can keep you safe while doing them. made it clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #17 June 27, 2003 If someone wants to charge you to teach you those dives, avoid them. Michael Quote QuoteLook for someone who can teach you the dives listed at www.dqnt.com/acc.htm and who can keep you safe while doing them. made it clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #18 June 27, 2003 Quote If someone wants to charge you to teach you those dives, avoid themQuote. The only thing I ever paid for (as far as coaching) in skydiving was an 'intro to CRW camp'...I refuse to pay for coaching. I don't think that's what skydiving is all about....as long as you pass it on down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #19 June 27, 2003 Here, here. I flew down to jump at ZHILLS in early Spring for the Freeze your Bunns Boogie and just paid $10 to use a Lightninig that would cost $30 from PD. Got in #12 on an offset diamond, got one on one coaching, bought a bunch of beer for the whole group. That's CRW."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Genn 0 #20 June 27, 2003 It's too bad skydiving, in its entirety, isn't like that anymore! BTW...Is it just me, or does anyone else get REALLY excited when there is a thread in this forum? I wish there was more of it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boinky 0 #21 June 28, 2003 Jon, I'm LOVING the Nerf ball idea. A few questions, though. What sort of canopy can this be done with? Does it have to be a Lightning? Unfortunately, I do not own one yet and have no access to one. I am learning some CRW under a Prodigy and I own a 9 cell Flight Concepts 170. I would prefer using the Prodigy, as I can use the practice landing a 7-cell CRW canopy, no matter how outdated it might be, but would it defeat the purpose to be using the Nosser toggles on it, as I know that the Lightning does not have them? Or should I ignore them and try to use JUST the front and rear risers? Since the ball is soft and floaty, how fast does it actually fall? Have you ever had any complaints from residents near the DZ's about finding these balls on their properties? As far as your hint for never taking my hands out of the toggles, perhaps I am being obtuse, but how will I be able to catch it, then? Thanks for the wonderful suggestion, Nina TharpNina Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz) Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwmike 0 #22 June 28, 2003 I've heard the nerf ball idea tossed around over the years but don't know anyone who actually made this work. Perhaps it does and the CRW community at large is just not aware of it. As far as the nasser toggles are concerned, they were designed for the 'wings' to hold trim to keep the canopy from coming up and around on the formation by deforming the outside end cell. The traditional trim was to hold outside front riser which, while keeping the canopy down, actually increases the forward drive of the outside end of the canopy. I don't believe they would be very useful in chasing something. As far as wings holding trim, the current practice is to hold a combination of inside brake and outside front riser. This deforms or warps the canopy so that it flies inefficiently and simultaneously keeps the canopy from floting up while alwo keeping it from driving around the formation. As far as keeping your hands in your brake toggles, this is always a good idea for CRWDogs. Use extended brake toggles and/or lengthen your brake lines so that when you reach forward to pull on your front risers to dive, you don't pull down the tail. Hold your brake toggles in your hands and reach forward and pull on your front risers. Look up at the tail. If you are pulling it down, you need to lengthen the lines. For landing, you will either need to change to the higher grip on the entented toggles or just do a wrap or two of the brake lines around your hands. Most Dogs use the latter technique as it is quicker and doesn't involve taking your hands out for a new grip. CRW Skies, Michael Quote I'm LOVING the Nerf ball idea. A few questions, though. What sort of canopy can this be done with? Does it have to be a Lightning? Unfortunately, I do not own one yet and have no access to one. I am learning some CRW under a Prodigy and I own a 9 cell Flight Concepts 170. I would prefer using the Prodigy, as I can use the practice landing a 7-cell CRW canopy, no matter how outdated it might be, but would it defeat the purpose to be using the Nosser toggles on it, as I know that the Lightning does not have them? Or should I ignore them and try to use JUST the front and rear risers? Since the ball is soft and floaty, how fast does it actually fall? Have you ever had any complaints from residents near the DZ's about finding these balls on their properties? As far as your hint for never taking my hands out of the toggles, perhaps I am being obtuse, but how will I be able to catch it, then? Thanks for the wonderful suggestion, Nina Tharp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #23 June 29, 2003 Quote The Nerf ball falls, but it takes random movements in its falling. Every see Plinko on Price is right? As the chip falls at different angles it takes off in different directions. Another cool canopy exercise that might be better if your jumping over an area that you can't really drop something even like a nerf ball is toliet paper. Hi, Jon and Phree... Stumbled into this forum, and I am intensely intrigued by both the nerf or pottypaper idea. As someone who has "canopy issues", I really like the idea of a dynamic object to work with...above 1200 feet... By the same token, I really am not yet interested in CRW - I still get anxious having someone within 100 feet of me while in the air (right, Phree?? LOL)...but it's something I will want to try in the future. I think. Well, I'll decide then... The question I have is would this work for someone just learning how to fly their canopy? I've done the canopy control class...would this be a good way to increase skills for the novice? Or would it only instill bad habits? (and yes, 1200 feet and it's time to get ready to land...) (and BTW, Jon, excellent website. I learned tons, and still haven't read the whole thing yet. I'll be there a great deal...Thanks!!!) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sikorsky 0 #24 July 17, 2003 try it & see --but try hard --don't take your eyes off of it. you'll get the idea --catch with your hands in front of your face while in the toggles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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DJL 232 #19 June 27, 2003 Here, here. I flew down to jump at ZHILLS in early Spring for the Freeze your Bunns Boogie and just paid $10 to use a Lightninig that would cost $30 from PD. Got in #12 on an offset diamond, got one on one coaching, bought a bunch of beer for the whole group. That's CRW."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #20 June 27, 2003 It's too bad skydiving, in its entirety, isn't like that anymore! BTW...Is it just me, or does anyone else get REALLY excited when there is a thread in this forum? I wish there was more of it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boinky 0 #21 June 28, 2003 Jon, I'm LOVING the Nerf ball idea. A few questions, though. What sort of canopy can this be done with? Does it have to be a Lightning? Unfortunately, I do not own one yet and have no access to one. I am learning some CRW under a Prodigy and I own a 9 cell Flight Concepts 170. I would prefer using the Prodigy, as I can use the practice landing a 7-cell CRW canopy, no matter how outdated it might be, but would it defeat the purpose to be using the Nosser toggles on it, as I know that the Lightning does not have them? Or should I ignore them and try to use JUST the front and rear risers? Since the ball is soft and floaty, how fast does it actually fall? Have you ever had any complaints from residents near the DZ's about finding these balls on their properties? As far as your hint for never taking my hands out of the toggles, perhaps I am being obtuse, but how will I be able to catch it, then? Thanks for the wonderful suggestion, Nina TharpNina Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz) Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #22 June 28, 2003 I've heard the nerf ball idea tossed around over the years but don't know anyone who actually made this work. Perhaps it does and the CRW community at large is just not aware of it. As far as the nasser toggles are concerned, they were designed for the 'wings' to hold trim to keep the canopy from coming up and around on the formation by deforming the outside end cell. The traditional trim was to hold outside front riser which, while keeping the canopy down, actually increases the forward drive of the outside end of the canopy. I don't believe they would be very useful in chasing something. As far as wings holding trim, the current practice is to hold a combination of inside brake and outside front riser. This deforms or warps the canopy so that it flies inefficiently and simultaneously keeps the canopy from floting up while alwo keeping it from driving around the formation. As far as keeping your hands in your brake toggles, this is always a good idea for CRWDogs. Use extended brake toggles and/or lengthen your brake lines so that when you reach forward to pull on your front risers to dive, you don't pull down the tail. Hold your brake toggles in your hands and reach forward and pull on your front risers. Look up at the tail. If you are pulling it down, you need to lengthen the lines. For landing, you will either need to change to the higher grip on the entented toggles or just do a wrap or two of the brake lines around your hands. Most Dogs use the latter technique as it is quicker and doesn't involve taking your hands out for a new grip. CRW Skies, Michael Quote I'm LOVING the Nerf ball idea. A few questions, though. What sort of canopy can this be done with? Does it have to be a Lightning? Unfortunately, I do not own one yet and have no access to one. I am learning some CRW under a Prodigy and I own a 9 cell Flight Concepts 170. I would prefer using the Prodigy, as I can use the practice landing a 7-cell CRW canopy, no matter how outdated it might be, but would it defeat the purpose to be using the Nosser toggles on it, as I know that the Lightning does not have them? Or should I ignore them and try to use JUST the front and rear risers? Since the ball is soft and floaty, how fast does it actually fall? Have you ever had any complaints from residents near the DZ's about finding these balls on their properties? As far as your hint for never taking my hands out of the toggles, perhaps I am being obtuse, but how will I be able to catch it, then? Thanks for the wonderful suggestion, Nina Tharp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #23 June 29, 2003 Quote The Nerf ball falls, but it takes random movements in its falling. Every see Plinko on Price is right? As the chip falls at different angles it takes off in different directions. Another cool canopy exercise that might be better if your jumping over an area that you can't really drop something even like a nerf ball is toliet paper. Hi, Jon and Phree... Stumbled into this forum, and I am intensely intrigued by both the nerf or pottypaper idea. As someone who has "canopy issues", I really like the idea of a dynamic object to work with...above 1200 feet... By the same token, I really am not yet interested in CRW - I still get anxious having someone within 100 feet of me while in the air (right, Phree?? LOL)...but it's something I will want to try in the future. I think. Well, I'll decide then... The question I have is would this work for someone just learning how to fly their canopy? I've done the canopy control class...would this be a good way to increase skills for the novice? Or would it only instill bad habits? (and yes, 1200 feet and it's time to get ready to land...) (and BTW, Jon, excellent website. I learned tons, and still haven't read the whole thing yet. I'll be there a great deal...Thanks!!!) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sikorsky 0 #24 July 17, 2003 try it & see --but try hard --don't take your eyes off of it. you'll get the idea --catch with your hands in front of your face while in the toggles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
