How long are your tandem videos ?

[PhreeZone 15]

A friend recently showed me his tandem video from another DZ and I was disappointed to say the least. From the end of the header video to the end of his video it was 3 and a half minutes with no music or efects, not even a fade. He paid $80 for this video. Editing could'nt have taken more then about 30 seconds since it was a start stop start stop and dub to tape video.

Most mine are between 12-15 usually. I'm wondering what most people think they should be and if there is such a thing as too long of a video as long as its all focused on the student?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I think the average for the videos at our dz is about 20 minutes - it includes just about everything the stduent does.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[Billy 0]

$80 for that?? Ours are $60,, but we are considering upping that for next year,,, and with me and my buddy learnin to fly tandem video that often includes 2-3 differant camera angles... anybody else offer more than one angle?? Tapes are an easy 20 minutes with titles, nice fades and great music, often suggested favorites of the passenger.. Our problem is getting them done and back to the customer as it takes a while to turn out the tape, often it's mailed in about a week.

[quade 3]

Interesting question and I'm sure it'll bring a number of different opinions -- however, there can be no real "correct" answer. Almost everything about content is subjective in video and just a matter of personal taste.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[MichaelBess 0]

Excellent point but this is a great forum to discuss the bare minimums. Let's face it, every DZ will shoot and edit differently. Some will use a titler, throw in some video stills, use some cool fades and A/B rolls etc. all edited to music (royalty free of course ). But the bottom line is the videos that get out there advertise for that video concession and DZ.

For future business it's in the best interest for the video concession as well as the DZ to do it right and use some sort of minimum standards.

I say as a minimum: Show the student gearing up (or geared up) kind of a "Pre jump" interview (what are you thinking stuff), a few shots in the plane during the climb, the entire freefall from exit to (and including) the opening, The videographers landing, and most importantly the tandem landing and post jump interview. (No you can not fit that into 3 1/2 minutes).

Michael

[quade 3]

Quote

But the bottom line is the videos that get out there advertise for that video concession and DZ.

Agreed.

The subjective part lays somewhere between too little and too much. I'm really not a fan of "too much" and just because a person shoots a frame of video doesn't mean it needs to be included in the final product (that's why they call it editing). My -guess- is that unless it's really amazing stuff or something truly special (blind, quad and 90-years-old) -- 20 minutes is probably going to get a little long in the tooth for the average viewer.

3.5 minutes? Well, that might be too short, but then again, if it was just the absolute best stuff, maybe it's just about the right length for -that- particular piece. Difficult to say without seeing the raw material. -Maybe- the client just wasn't all that good of an interview or there was some other reason it was short.

Take a look at the travel and feature segments on the news and compare those to what most people are doing with tandem videos. Same deal, you're telling a story -- make it complete -- don't make it boring.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zlew 0]

I don't really care how many min's the video is. To me, the video is about making the student the star, and the video should be ACTION packed. My video's usually run somewhere between 5-6mins (plus the DZ's leader). What drives me crazy are the long winded videos that show 4 mins of them putting on the jumpsuit and harness, 4 mins of in aircraft time, 5 miins of canopy ride, etc.
My video:
1 Min pre interview
30sec-1:30 min, walk out to the plane and take off.
20 sec's or so in aircraft (alt. check, student shot, out the window to the gorund etc.).
1:30- 2:30 from the door to my openning.
20 sec's landing (camera on at about 800ft.)
1 min them landing and post interview.

5 differnt times in the airplane of turning your camera on and shooting the student just sitting there does not add to the experiance. Not to me any way. I like to keep things fast paced. This is SKYDIVING, not gardening.
But don't rip your student off either.
I don't think I would sell a video of less than 4 mins (and 4 mins better have damn good footage on it).

Blue skies
Black Panties
Z

[Billy 0]

I agree with not wanting too much crap in the video if thats what it is,, some folks just aren't that interesting,, but keeping it interesting, and capturing the emotions with someones first jump,,thats part of the editing too right,, I also remember the way I felt watching my first jump video and how it could make my palms sweat all over again,, I don't think we should "short" the customer of video they may really enjoy seeing because we get used to seeing the same shots over and over,, it may be the only jump they ever do,, one of the advantages to a small DZ will be not having to edit a shitload of jumps come Monday...

Natural Born FlyerZ.com

[flyboy62000 0]

My videos typically run 15 minutes on average. I do most of the work while I shoot. I start with a fade in on the dz banner or logo. Next I shoot some short shots (5sec max) in series of the student getting the harness on, talking with other group members, etc. Next I shoot the training of the student, typically 2 minutes or so. Then, I interview the student about why he/she is jumping, what their expectations are, etc. with some good natured comedy and hamming it up from the instructor included. Then I shoot the student and instructor walking up to and bording the plane. Short series of shots on odd thousands, alti, outside, student. At about 9-10,000 I ask the student if they're scared yet and ready to skydive. Exit, Freefall, a little canopy play, spirals, etc. my landing from 1st person, they're landing and friends landings then post jump interview. Usually 15 minutes to 18 minutes is the final product. I basically use only my camera, a mixer board, and vcr to edit. I use the effects from my camera during the edit and add music and slo-mo. I strive to improve on every video with new shots and different flying. I think we do have a really great group of videographers here that really get into making every tandem video and the students really enjoy the product they take home less than 30 minutes after they land.

Blue Skies,
Adam

Blue Skies,
Adam
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[tommy 0]

Mine are generally around 10 mins.

I generally shoot:

- ground footage
- student getting dressed
- interview (why did you want to skydive, who are you here with,etc)
- the student getting on the plane
- takeoff
- some shots with the door open
- in plane interview (scared? how're you feeling,etc)
- freefall & opening
- my canopy ride down (spiraling down goes over well with the students)
- part of their canopy ride (once i land)
- their landing
- exit interview (did you enjoy, etc)

I use some of the in-camera effects like overlap fades into the next scene. (Sony PC9 camera.)

We let the student pick the music and dub the vid's on the spot with an editing board. Only in very rare circumstances do we mail vids.

-Tommy

[Deuce 1]

My DZ has a professional video concession and they do the slow motion, frame shots, fades etc. I give them 8 minutes of the shots that Michael described and it ends up between 10 and fifteen.

I've been really surprised at the lack of "fluffing" other DZ's do. Until the customer sees a nicely edited tape with some "Whooo-hoooo!" on it they may not know the difference, but the good tapes bring more business by convincing the whuffo they want to give it a try.

All the camera flyers at my DZ have at least 10 times the jumps (300 vs 3000) and it's such a bitch to have a customer really psyched about the video you shot of them until they see the video from a veteran flyer. Argh.

Figure they want to show it at work during their break, so no longer than 15 minutes.

"Yes, I'd like to order video and stills, but not from that goofus in the superman outfit"

[puffdaddy 0]

Ditto, ditto and so say all of us

" You have never lived until you've almost died, and for those who has experienced it, life has a flavour the protected would never understand"

[davepend 0]

Quote

The subjective part lays somewhere between too little and too much. I'm really not a fan of "too much" and just because...

Same deal, you're telling a story -- make it complete -- don't make it boring.

Very well stated.
I'm continually refining how I shoot/edit and am currently at about six to seven minutes (not including leader or trailer). I used to end up with 10 minutes or more, but that had too much airplane and/or canopy footage.

One good way to know how much is too much or what to trim out is watch your customer as they watch their video. At what points are their eyes glued to the screen with an ear-to-ear grin on their face? This is the stuff you want to keep in. At what points are they fidgeting, chatting with their buddies, or wanting to go outside and watch their friends land? This would be the stuff you can probably trim out.

Remember it's *their* video.
As Quaid said, tell the story of their experience without boring them in the process.

-dp

[Cornholio 0]

I can agree with Deuce on this one. The vids that our dz produces are pretty nice. I have seen one other video from another nearby dz, and there were too many effects. They did slow-mo, backwards, transitions, etc... while watching the video, I was saying to my friend..."hurry up, hurry up and show the good stuff." The raw footage of the video must have been about 5 minutes, but they stretched that thing to about 15.

A little fluff is good, but too much is just overkill. I would say that anymore than 25% fluff is too much. ie. If a 5 minute video was stretched to 15, that would be rediculout. but if that same vid added 20% fluff to make it 6 minutes, that would be the perfect video.

Again, this is all subjective, and I am sure everyone is going to have their own opinion.

Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast!
Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool!
bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump

[AggieDave 6]

Skydive Aggieland (Pablo) puts out a great tandem video for everyone that he does. He has the suiting up/interview/walking to the plane part. A climbing to altitude section, showing an alti at different altitudes, then the skydive. He shows the jump right until opening in slow-mo, then uses a transition back to the beginning of the jump (when they're leaving the plane) and shows it in real time, all the way through the opening sequence. He usually puts his opening and his landing on the video too, ending with their landing, a high five, with a "how was it?"

The very beginning and end are title pages, with a story line going, then credits at the end. Story line: "Once apon a time, at Skydive Aggieland Jim (whatever their name is) did his first skydive..." It goes on from there.

All in all, one of the better videos I've seen from the ones I've seen.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zlew 0]

I"ve been to a few DZ's that either kick the tandems out lower (9-10, then go all the way up) or are 182 dz's that use the slow motion then full speed trick to make the video longer.

Some Slow-motion is ok for me, but this is SKYDIVING, we are going FAST...SPEED, thrill, that's what its all about. Not slow motion. WHen I see those videos I find myself wanting to fast forward to the real time video so I can see the skydive, not the 2 min slow motion.

Maybe it's just me, but to me too much slow motion takes away from what the student did, and that was go jump out of a plane flying at 80mph and fall at 120mph and have a blast in the process.

[YahooLV 0]

I generally shoot:

- ground footage
- student getting dressed-(If I have time)
- interview (why did you want to skydive, who are you here with,etc)
-the long walk to the holding area with fades and short shots.
- the student getting on the plane-photo op at the door
- some shots with the door open
- in plane interview-alti shot then fade to face and interview
- freefall & opening
- my canopy ride down (spiraling down goes over well with the students)
- part of their canopy ride (once i land)
- their landing
- exit interview (did you enjoy, etc)

I try really hard and have had excellent feedback from clients that I "have made them seem like GOD " on the videos. Just a little extra time with slo-mos, and some individual shots seem to really make the clients feel important. I mean afterall_I am doing this for them.

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[PhreeZone 15]

Ok... side question. What do most people shoot for tandem videos? The down low looking up pic has to be in there, but I've seen a video where the person was in front the entire time and never moved from being on level with the tandem master. I personally like to orbit once or twice, pop up and look down to get the ground shot under the tandem and maybe dock on them if they seem to be heads up in the skydive and looking at me a lot. I'm learning to back fly right now so I'd like to get better so I can have the tandem grab my foot or something in a few hundred jumps.

Any other personal favorite shots you like to film?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[chachi 0]

My videos usually average about 8 - 9 minutes. I shoot the same stuff most of you guys do. I use all the effects in my camera and edit real time with titles and music. All camera fliers at my drop zone follow same format so we have a similiar looking product and no one feels ripped off. As for angles, I usually come down the drogue after exit , do a face on and then a little below. Then I orbit around the tandem and then usually high five or dock on the tandem with hand or foot. Then just as tandem is about to pull I pop up about 6-8 feet for the opening. It looks neat.

~45

[SniperCJ 0]

Without repeating too much, it sounds like we typically get the same shots, its just how much of those shots we shoot.

My DZ keeps the videos at 6-7 minutes long (when I started I got some verbage about some study that said 6 minutes was about the average attention span or something). But anyway thats how long they are.

Most of our TMs really help out in the air by doing a couple of spins. If they look like they arent going to, I'll orbit them at least once and get a high shot.

One of the TMs and I regularly dock and spin together. Its a pretty good visual on the video.

I, like someone else montioned, am really concentrating on my back flying so as to add to the 'toolbox'.

Keep learning, keep trying different things. One of the worst things that can happen is for a group to come in and they all get the "same" video, due to lack of creativity on the part of the video staff.

JC

[YahooLV 0]

Ok, after exiting the plane I shoot the drogue deployment, then I move in for the money shot! After that, depending upon how they're flying, I'll swoop around them, (they turn the other direction) makes for a great shot. Then back to the money shot again. Pop up a bit, then down low again, then get ready to shoot the deployment(slo-mo) in editing (LOOKS GREAT) then as I fall away, shoot the opening.

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[YahooLV 0]

If the tandem is flying well, sometimes I like to grip the "master". I don't grip the passenger because who knows what they will do. I must trust the tandem master before anything is tried that might affect the ride. ( I don't do this all the time.)
But then really, what is a grip? Does the passenger like it, or is it just for us to play with???
Just a thought.

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[Zlew 0]

I tell the student in my briefing with them that I might give them a high five. Looks really good (and easy if u have a side mounted camera). If they know it's comming, it's no big deal. Never had any problems with them grabbing me.

Z

[jimmytavino 16]

Our Club has 7 or 8 qualified videographers on staff
A few of them got together and produced a club
leader, which is very fast paced, includes a variety of footage,, and leads into the students' skydive with
a scrolling "and now for your skydive".. Each video person edits and mixes their own tapes, and we deliver to the student
within 30 minutes or so, of landing,,, Letting videos,
pileup by shooting 3 or 4 and THEN trying to make up the finished product,,, has never really worked, for me... You get sloppy,
or impatient, OR yourstudent, who has been on the ground now for an hour or two,,, gets impatient..
Our blanks, which the club mass produces and hands to the camera person,, (nice because we each don't have to run around buying blank VHS tapes every week),, alllow just over 12 minutes of footage, plus the 4 minute leader....
I run 2 cameras, one standard focal length and maybe just a little zoom, and one with a .42 wide angle....I IMMEDIATEY start the tape with,,,, what else???? the exit, off the close up camera.... I get right to the business
of the jump,,, with some rockin' music.....THEN,,, I backstep to begin the chronological story, with a few seconds of the training,, the gearing up. quick shots of the Club sign and photos and labels and people
and everything from posters to groups of regulars dirt diving, and even family members and friends of the student...If you use a clip board, or chalk board
for maifest, be sure to grab a shot of THAT, with the students name on it....Thenall the rest,,, including the skydive from the semi-wide angle lens... (be sure to zoom it just enough eliminate the "Vignette
Factor".. I also try NOT to be static during the skydive.
If the TM likes to do 360s ( and why,,,,,
I don't know , then I use that time to run UP to the drogue, and then I do a nice swoop move back to the student..... try NOT to just sit in front of the pair...If you do not have excellent communication
with your TM's then establish it.. We have head nods
and hand signals for things like "Get the students head,,,, UP.".. and for "we are LONG" and for "we are WAYYYYYY long""".MY finished tapes are about
10 to 12 minutes plus the leader, and we try to get them done ASAP after the student lands.... Oh if haven't already thought about it,,, Get a snapshot printer deck,, Olympus makes 'em Canon and Sony too.... theyrun around 3oo bucks, and will take any paused digital frame, and create a 4 x 5 snapshot, in about a minute or so. I usually grab a frame immediately on landing,,, and make the snapshot, then get packin' then make the vid....The snapshot of the student in freefall can literally be handed to them,,, befor they have gotten out of their jumpsuit,,, and its a nice surprise....Be careful be creative, have fun... jimmeetee
"Do or Do Not,, there is no Try" Jedei Master Yoda

[mark135 0]

ok. my 2 cents.

I shoot 8-10 minutes of film.
gearing up &interview
outside the hanger talking to thier freinds while i circle with slow shutter on.
walk to airplane
takeoff out the window or windshield
in the plane. overlaps of alti to window(clouds and or ground) panning to student
hookup and "last words"
climbout. (since our k.a. broke down the rest is strictly 182 methods)
i typically climb all the way out on strut, hands toward wing and feet on far edge of step. on exit i kick out with left foot and end up underneath them on my back for the exit shot. aircraft is in background. i the transition into whatever body position i need to depending on time it takes to get drouge out (either belly or head down). i used to do counter rotating barrel rolls on exit which was really cool to the other skydivers but added nothing to the student. I put a lot of effort into the exit as this is the most exciting part to the student. i slow mo exit then slow rewind and replay at normal speed.


freefall from a 182 is short. get in fast. i slow mo a good face shot up close then back off a little to get some background. not much time for fooling around.

i slo mo opening
some of my canopy ride and landing. (never know when your gonna screw up a landing and get that "year end video" footage)
thier landing and interview fading into sun behind windflag and fade to black.
theres a few other little things i do such as filming some of my favorite skydiving sayings which are cut scenes during gear up and post jump interview.
i made my own trailer showing some of the in air antics of experianced jumpers.

_______________


"It seemed like a good idea at the time"