Exit Count

[sparrella 0]

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts about exit count. As I understand it, there are generally two versions out there

1. Ready-set--go
2. Shake--Ready-set-go

The other variables I know of are:
whether to have an inward movement on Set, whether to have a big head-nod on ready, and whether to use Hut instead of Ready.

Personally, I like the shake version better because it places more emphasis on focusing the jumpers prior to the count. I saw a little bit of ererything at Nationals.

It would be helpful to me to read what other teams do and why.

Thanks

[eeneR 1]

The four way team I was on...we did the following:

Ready = Shake
Set = squat down
Go = well just go out!

basically shake, down and out!

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[vibeke 0]

There is a lot of ways to count.
Timing is the main issue. If the timing is good, then the count-method is not important. The person with the shake (often the center-in) will need to work out a count that is good for everyone, and easy to make the same way each time. Maybe just shake (ready), nod (set), go! But then we are talking exits where every one can see, and thats often not the case.

But general thoghts on the count:
Count is both visual and a lot of "feeling".
It needs to be firm and consistant, without any hesitation.
Try to make it at a nice calm pace, giving everybody time to feel the shake, breathe, "set" and go. We jumped our count on the ground like 500 times or so! Still do it as part of our routine, if we have a new jumper on board or its been a while.
A count can be dirtdived for free as many times as you like, but when in the aircraft it needs to be just right. If you are off timing, then you are off balance and the exit will suck, and you will end up wasting time. Even if the exit does not funnel.

We do set up at the door in arranged order, no one taking their grips before they stand where they wish to. Then picking up grips we make eyecontact with the jumper with the count. After that we focus on our body position as we want it to be out of the door. (belly presented against the wind)
When everyone is set up and have had eye contact with (or looked in the direction of, anyway) the counting person, the count goes like this:

Shake-shake-shake (gently, everone passing it on)
Small pause (2 seconds)
Firm shake, one side to other and back, stop. (ready)
Set at practiced timing thereafter - some going low (to dump even lower off, on go) other go slightly down, to launch off, to position themselves high or to an angle. Depending on the formation.

During exit, ONLY the exit and our formations presentation matters. Not until clear of the door, we focus on our piece partner or last grip/key.
(but I suppose as we get more experienced, this all becomes a natural flow)

Edit: this was the method of my team from last year. We all did tunnel and had an average on 6,9 at our nationals - our first Advanced competition. But I expect my new team will count the same way - even though my new teammates are far more experienced skydivers than me.

[Ron 7]

For a team it does not matter as long as everyone can see it and it is always the same.

My team gave the IC the count (Me).
1. I took my grips and waited till everyone stopped moving.
2. I shook everyone so they knew I was going to start the count.
3. Popped the grips for "ready"
4. dropped down for the set.
5. Went like hell on "go"


For fun loads the bigger the better.

I give the count to Outside center.

1. Big whole body shake.
2. Out for "Ready"
3. Up for "set"
4. Drop down on "go"

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Rdutch 0]

Dont forget the count for your videot on the outside. I myself hate to see any count it screws me up, I prefer to go when the team goes. But I like to see a shake so I know its coming, I hold on the handle with two hands until the shake and then drop low as possible and drop the other hand off the handle to get ready to exit. Then I just go with the team. The one thing I have learned is no matter what combination of people you have with a 4way team you will never get the same count from all 4 of them, and counts don't always come from the same person everytime. Some people just have no rythm. So for video your not in the group and its real hard to feel what they are doing.
Anyway other than me, I am sure your videograper would love to see a count of some sort, especially when he is just starting out. If you ever get the chance of letting me shoot video for you (lol like I can get rid of you) just give a good shake. Oh yeah this isnt a video thread its a Point turner thread. But the point I was trying to make to anyone that can actually learn something from this post is, its not only the 4 of you that is looking at the count, so make sure it is clear, and defined. And make sure you do the same thing everytime. From a Videot's view the difference between a team with good exits and bad exits is definite consistency with the count and the exit. If people are exiting early with the count or late its not good, and a clear count can make all the difference between a funnel a great exit and a possible NJ. Remember there is 5 people in your team.

Oh yeah and the Went like hell on "go" thing yeah do that it works great!

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[Dumpster 0]

Often used at our DZ among the 4-way folks -

Shake
Up
Down
Out

Most of our camera flyers look for a pronounced Up movement to key thier departure from. But like others have said here previously, most any count will work as long as everyone knows what to do and when.

Easy Does It

[AMax 0]

Quote

Dont forget the count for your videot on the outside. I myself hate to see any count it screws me up, I prefer to go when the team goes. But I like to see a shake so I know its coming, I hold on the handle with two hands until the shake and then drop low as possible and drop the other hand off the handle to get ready to exit. Then I just go with the team. The one thing I have learned is no matter what combination of people you have with a 4way team you will never get the same count from all 4 of them, and counts don't always come from the same person everytime. Some people just have no rythm. So for video your not in the group and its real hard to feel what they are doing.
Anyway other than me, I am sure your videograper would love to see a count of some sort, especially when he is just starting out. If you ever get the chance of letting me shoot video for you (lol like I can get rid of you) just give a good shake. Oh yeah this isnt a video thread its a Point turner thread. But the point I was trying to make to anyone that can actually learn something from this post is, its not only the 4 of you that is looking at the count, so make sure it is clear, and defined. And make sure you do the same thing everytime. From a Videot's view the difference between a team with good exits and bad exits is definite consistency with the count and the exit. If people are exiting early with the count or late its not good, and a clear count can make all the difference between a funnel a great exit and a possible NJ. Remember there is 5 people in your team.

Oh yeah and the Went like hell on "go" thing yeah do that it works great!

Good post. Especially for those who just beginning to learn the game ...

[juanesky 0]

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Dont forget the count for your videot on the outside. I myself hate to see any count it screws me up, I prefer to go when the team goes. But I like to see a shake so I know its coming, I hold on the handle with two hands until the shake and then drop low as possible and drop the other hand off the handle to get ready to exit. Then I just go with the team. The one thing I have learned is no matter what combination of people you have with a 4way team you will never get the same count from all 4 of them, and counts don't always come from the same person everytime. Some people just have no rythm. So for video your not in the group and its real hard to feel what they are doing.
Anyway other than me, I am sure your videograper would love to see a count of some sort, especially when he is just starting out. If you ever get the chance of letting me shoot video for you (lol like I can get rid of you) just give a good shake. Oh yeah this isnt a video thread its a Point turner thread. But the point I was trying to make to anyone that can actually learn something from this post is, its not only the 4 of you that is looking at the count, so make sure it is clear, and defined. And make sure you do the same thing everytime. From a Videot's view the difference between a team with good exits and bad exits is definite consistency with the count and the exit. If people are exiting early with the count or late its not good, and a clear count can make all the difference between a funnel a great exit and a possible NJ. Remember there is 5 people in your team.

Oh yeah and the Went like hell on "go" thing yeah do that it works great!

Good post. Especially for those who just beginning to learn the game ...

What is a NJ?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Rdutch 0]

Naked Jump, or the NJ I was referring to is NOT JUDGEABLE. If the Judge's cant see it, it didn't happen. Faking out your cameraman is an easy way to get one of those.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[AMax 0]

NJ=Naked Jump
LOL

[sparrella 0]

And the inside center prayed:

"Oh Lord, bless this exit piece with thy might that they mayest leave thy aircraft and enter thy airy meadow that surrounds your most perfect earthly creation on time and in place. Bless them, Oh Lord that they do not funneleth and plummet unto the earth in the nastiest of manners, incur the ill humor of their judges, or the harsh physical contact of their videographer. Because, as thou are well aware Lord, working time is most precious. I mean 35 seconds for intermediate, are you serious? Would 45 seconds have killed you?”

And the Lord spake saying:

"First, shalt thou check thy holiest of equipment (including but not limited to handles, legstraps, booties, and visors) so thou mayest focus thy energy on the climbout. I’m not even going to get into whether or not you have the dive-flow by now."

"Second, thou shall taketh thy appointed position in the door without pause, except that thou will respect thy videographer and give him most just passage."

"Third, thou shalt take grips with all due haste. In thy righteousness, so shalt ye seek the eye contact of thy teammates when thou art ready to depart."

And the Lord spaketh again:

"Thus have you prepareth to leapeth, so shall you leapeth well. The center (usually inside) shall shaketh the BeJesus out of his companions lest they have any doubt of their purpose or continue to fidget without discernable purport or end.”

“Announce unto thy flock, READY and using all thy might and resolve, so shall the inside center indicateth the direction of intended travel with a pronounced downward motion of his head lest their still be any doubt."

"Then, thy inside center shall sayeth SET, and the bodies of thy flock shall moveth DOWN (or IN, depending on what works for the teameth,) because if thy flock moveth on SET, they are more likely to moveth on GO (more about GO later.) And as thy flock’s intention shall be made knownst unto him, so shall thy videographer be grateful for such motion.

"Using thy cadence, thou shalt shouteth GO and thy entire team shall leapeth unto the firmament without hesitation. They shall be conscious of their position, and firm in their grasp and resolve.”

"Take also this heed,” sayeth the Lord:

"Thou shalt leave on GO. Go is when thou shalt leave. Not Before, and not After. And the leaving shalt occur on GO. Period. Once the word GO has been spoketh, GO being the command of the leaving, then shalt thou GO. So it goes without saying that thou shalt leaveth on GO. Thou wilst not leave on SET, as thou would also not leave after GO. No way would thou leavest on READY. And thou shalt of course not falleth off thy chariot during the climbout. Thou mayest in thy wisdom anticipate GO, but only with the purpose of leaving on GO. Pretty much, GO on GO."

"Excepting that if thou screwith up, and are late, so shalt thou leave as quickly as possible. Having sayeth that, it is still agreed it is best to leaveth on GO."

"And as the devil shalt deceive you, thou wouldst leave early. And as the devil wouldst distract you, so shalt you leave late. Either way, in thy error and shame, thy holy exit piece will be rotated or stretched beyond recognition. Or worse, funnel. As ye funneleth, so shalt ye look dumbeth in thy video. Or thou might plummetteth toward the green meadow by thy own sweet self."

"And lest ye forget, thy body is sacred and a vessel of the Lord. Thou shalt fly thy body with thy hips facing the relative wind and thy legs doing something--lest gravity's wrath be fully upon you and thou become as a fallen leaf in a tempest. And lest ye also forget, thou shalt endeavor with all thy might to start flying the piece with all due haste, as that is the purpose of leaving on go in the first place.”

"Thus shalt thou be sustained in thy appointed place in thy exit piece, and thy first point may be turned upon the shining hill, and thy entire exit piece shalt be contained in the video screen."

"Go In Piece. Due consideration should be given to launching specific exits that have proven successful and stable in the past.”

Thus spoketh The Lord

Amen.

The greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie, the greatest enemy of the truth is a myth.

[masher 1]

oh yeah.


I like that!

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[vibeke 0]

Spoken like a true man of God!
haha nice...

[skyminxx 0]

OMG. I think that I am going to pee my pants!!

I love that, Sparrella
My team has OSC give the count so that our camera can see. We have such a good groove now that we all move in unison and Karen (camera) watches more for the swing of 3 (mine are inside the plane) sets of hips....than for the shake.

We do...
(after ISC checks and lets OSC know that we are all ready...)
Shake.....breathe.....
(this is the part when we all get in sync)
Shake .. Down ... Out

We have been accused of being all *Zen* like, but it works for us

In the Carolinas its funny to see all the different interpretations of what was an Angry Beez count. There are a bunch of newer teams and jumpers in NC who have been so obviously influenced by these guys that you can tell by watching them in the door, who they have been coached by

You are led through your lifetime by the inner learning creature, the playful spiritual being that is your real self.-Richard Bach

[dgskydive 0]

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OMG. I think that I am going to pee my pants!!

Kinky!

[mjosparky 3]

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OMG. I think that I am going to pee my pants!!

Kinky!

we all move in unison and Karen (camera) watches more for the swing of 3 (mine are inside the plane) sets of hips....than for the shake.

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PJ you are making this to easy.

Dom, you are a sick person.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[btucker 0]

shake down go. With the inside center giving the count & the shake.


When your giving the count, wait until all movement stops, pause a heartbeat then start the count. I made the shake a firm one - helps the camera flyer. Everyone should have worked out before, how to setup, what grips to take up in what order and especially where they are going to plant their feet - no squiming around!


On the go it's your job to put your body in the correct spot on the relative wind + target any grips. All coaches tell us to reference off your opposite during exit and fly the exit - rather than jumping out and hopping for the best.


We never blessed anything - which explains a lot really.

[Samurai136 0]

IC gives the count on our team. Unless we're launching a bi-pole, I give the count (tail).

Climb-out; everyone gets grips and stops moving in the door.

shake-shake-shake (pause) Ready-Set-Go!

It's always 3 quick shakes. This count eliminated a lot of mis-communication confusion bad exit stuff. Now we attribute a bad exits to free-fliers crowding the door.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[sparrella 0]

Hey everybody:

Thanks for all the replies to the original post. I'm glad some of you liked the prayer. I had a-lot of fun writing it.

I wasn't surprised at the different exit counts out there. John Hoover referenced a quote in a recent article. He said, "Four-way is about problem solving." That makes a-lot of sense to me.

It would seem proper that the specifics of the count are designed to address specific shortcomings the team (or the weakest link) has had with leaving the aircraft on time and in place.

Perhaps it isn't a matter of which count is best. Perhaps it's a matter of which count is best for you, and is your team using that count.

Thanks

sjp

The greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie, the greatest enemy of the truth is a myth.

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Mr. Parrella,

I am so glad you posted this so I can read it whenever I want. For those of you who don't know Steve, well ...

it's too bad you don't. I was his clone on our 4 way team, him=tail, me=point. We ALWAYS had fun. (Well, except competition at Nationals) and we still had fun!

Every 4 way person should read this. It is humorous and entertaining.

Thanks Steve!

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

I'd like to modify the above post to reflect:

"For those of you who don't know Steve ...

well,

it sucks to be you

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[rehmwa 2]

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Now we attribute a bad exits to free-fliers crowding the door.

We all thought you should have taken the re-jump for that one. Every team captain was pushing for that at the time (FF and GG).

Small towners getting the boogie Otter is always a problem. I was certain the back of the plane was going to have collisions with the tiny separation counts.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jmpwme 0]

Steve -

That prayer rocked. Best description I've ever heard of the exit count. Hoover's got nothin in you!!!!! It will be proudly displayed in our team room, FRAMED!

Steve
GT