Finding the sweet spot.

[Kbell1985 0]

Hello,

So I have a new jumper problem. Quick background:
- 37 jumps all on a Pulse 190 student rig.
- Purchased my own rig with the help and guidance of friends, coaches and fellow jumpers.
- 7 jumps on mu new equipment.
- Volt 170. 1:1 loading.
- 0-7 for landing.

What do I mean 0-7? I am having issues finding the sweet spot when it comes to planning and finishing my flare. I have hit the ground so hard… I’m a PLF PRO. Please I’m looking for any advice or help.

~ Kristen

[riggerrob 558]

First off, ask a buddy to video your landing. Bribe him/her with lemonade midday.
Wait until there is a pause, then invite a local coach or instructor to review the video with you. Ask him-her what you could do differently to improve your next landing. Thank the instructor with a beer in the evening.

Write the instructor's advice in your logbook.
Talk yourself through the new dive-flow as you fly final approach (the last 300 feet).
Please report back what advice your instructor gave.
Good luck and soft landings.

[DHemer 0]

Something else to look at

How long are the brake lines, they may be too long/short and you are not getting the full flare out of the canopy.

Too long: don't get a full flare
Too short: less airspeed = less lift

I have only a few jumps on a friend's volt but that canopy is defiantly not lacking in flare power (1.2-1.3 WL). Way more than my pilot in the same size.

Get some experienced jumpers to film you and offer suggestions as said above

[Lawndarter 3]

I'm jumping a rental rig right now - a SIL 230 - and the brake line issue is something that has been suggested might be an issue that is going to be checked by videoing some landings - I'm not getting the last bit of the flare so my landings have largely become slides - very soft, feet catching the ground and down into a very soft slide, but a slide nevertheless, and all the casual observations are "finish the flare" but I've got the toggles down pretty much as far as I can get them, I think. Video should help there. Might need to try wrapping once I have some video review.

My bad habit so far though is that if I have a fast final I tend to start to brake a bit before flaring, and I'm cheating myself out of the speed needed for a better flare. That's one thing I know I'll see in the video.

I was rewarded for bad flaring on AFF (too high, and while I set up to PLF, my heel hit the ground first and broke my distal fibula) with a broken ankle on my second jump, so I'm really keen to get my landings sorted out better. I think trying to protect the ankle subconsciously is doing something too, that's why I want to see in some video.

I bought a rig with a 215 canopy (ZPexe) that I'm led to believe even with a slightly higher wingload (just under 1.1) will get a better flare than a Silhouette, but I plan to just put it away until I'm getting landings I'm happier with with the rig I'm jumping now. I bought it now as it was a good deal, even if I may want to get some more jumps before switching.

[flexhead 0]

The advise on reply 1 and 2 is spot on, especially #2 talking about your toggle settings. I have conducted canopy pilot courses for over 10 years and have found that problem repeatedly.

Look for a canopy course near you and sign up. You cannot enjoy or even focus completely on your freefall time if you are worried about your landing.

[JohnMitchell 14]

So many variables go into making a good landing. Video and coaching are your best options. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Maybe just a friend videoing your landings and have a good instructor review them.

[Lawndarter 3]

I'm looking forward to spring to take some canopy courses. The winter I'm going to make good use of the tunnel to get better at freefall skills, and I'm looking forward to learning a lot more about canopy piloting to really get progressing in the sport.

And worrying? No kidding. My first time jumping (except for two tandems I did while recovering) after the break, I had quite a helmet fire - starting (over)thinking through everything in the jump and wound up going out the door super unstable, rigid, and all over the place, took almost 20 seconds in free fall to really get myself stable and relaxed. Not a fun way to do anything.

[timrf79 0]

Also consider getting a flysight, in addition to the video.
A flysight will show you your pattern (that is where often the problem starts) and where you flare exactly (most likely too low or to high).

[CrashProne 4]

Thanks to this thread, and some quality one on one time with John Mitchell, I figured out today that I could not toggle stall my Pilot 210, even after taking a wrap. Our local rigger took about ten minutes to shorten my brake lines by about 3" then the wind came up and I only needed maybe 3/4 full flare to tip toe my next landing.

Looking forward to my next zero wind jump to see the difference!

[JohnMitchell 14]

That was fun talking with you about your canopy flying. See you out there again.

[DHemer 0]

Flysight is not going to help a beginner with timing a flare

GPS accuracy in the vertical direction is measured in meters. While useful for a high performance turn from a few hundred feet I do not know if the resolution is good enough with a 5hz logging frequency and a flare from a few meter us to capture anything useful.

[timrf79 0]

DHemer

Flysight is not going to help a beginner with timing a flare

GPS accuracy in the vertical direction is measured in meters. While useful for a high performance turn from a few hundred feet I do not know if the resolution is good enough with a 5hz logging frequency and a flare from a few meter us to capture anything useful.

It measures at 200ms that is 5 times a second, s; yes you will see the height at which you start your flare.
Been in 5 flight 1 courses, in those we ahve done this several times

[ixlr82 7]

Like Riggerrob said. Get some video. Many peoples idea of what they are doing is not consistent with what the video shows they are actually doing.

__________________________________________

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

I've jumped 2 Volts. A 185 loaded at 1.02 for 135 jumps, and a 170 loaded at 1.11 Oddly enough, the 2 sizes of the same model wing gave me entirely different flare characteristics.

My 185 came with noticeably long excess brake lines, and the flare point (the point where you plane out) is low at the waist. I do a 3 stage flare, first at shoulder to decrease the airspeed, then at the waist to plane out and hold it as long as possible, and when I'm ~2-3ft above the ground I quickly stab the 3rd stage out at full arm extension and hold it till I touch down. Out of the 135 jumps on the Volt 185, I stood up 120+ times, so the flare power is definitely not the problem. The flare point simply sits a little bit lower down the lines due to long brake lines. I'm 6' and have long risers though, so if you're shorter, the excess brake lines can be your problem here.

My Volt 170 loaded at 1.11 for some reason has almost zero excess on its brake lines, and the flare point is at chest height. On days with winds, I dont even have to do my 3rd stage flare. So far 20 jumps on it have all been stand-ups. I prefer this brake line configuration and the resulting higher flare point much more than my previous Volt. It reminds me of the strong flares I get on a Sabre2 190.

It might also just be your lack of experience. My landings improved dramatically after 50 jumps, and no matter what canopy I jumped or what brake line configuration they had afterwards, I stand up 99% of the time. With experience comes the ability to adapt to different canopies and variable landing conditions. On your next couple jumps, I'd observe how long the excess brake lines are and where is the flare point. I'd also ask someone to video your landings to get an idea of whether the canopy or the pilot is the problem. Good luck!

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[Kbell1985 0]

Kbell1985

Hello,

So I have a new jumper problem. Quick background:
- 37 jumps all on a Pulse 190 student rig.
- Purchased my own rig with the help and guidance of friends, coaches and fellow jumpers.
- 7 jumps on mu new equipment.
- Volt 170. 1:1 loading.
- 0-7 for landing.

What do I mean 0-7? I am having issues finding the sweet spot when it comes to planning and finishing my flare. I have hit the ground so hard… I’m a PLF PRO. Please I’m looking for any advice or help.

~ Kristen

Update: I went out and jumped at Skydive Kentucky. Super scared because it was the first time jumping at a DZ that was not my own. They were so amazing I told them my issue...so they watched. Both jumps I made..... STANDING LANDING!!!! They told me I'm flaring too high. I think I'm getting ground rush. It was so nice for them to treat me so well. I even got to hang from the wing of the plane!!!! Needless to say because of all of my first times, I have a few beer fines! I want to thank everyone for the advice. I'm hoping to take a canopy course in Oct. Until then I will keep asking questions... Never learn if you never ask.

[DHemer 0]

Next time just adjust the brake lines to your personal preference

[JohnMitchell 14]

Kbell1985

Both jumps I made..... STANDING LANDING!!!! They told me I'm flaring too high. I think I'm getting ground rush

Flaring too high is a VERY common mistake. I'm sure it's because you see the ground rushing up. Keep working at it and you'll get acclimatized to it.

With that said, there are SO many variables that go into making a good landing that it's almost impossible to coach someone without actually seeing their landings. I'm glad you got someone to watch yours and give you some feedback.

[erdnarob 1]

You should register for Flight-1 101 canopy skill course. They take you at any level. One of their exercices is exactely what your are looking for, ie. finding the sweet spot of your canopy. This course is a series of short seminars (half an hour) with videos and explanations then you go on a practice jump. They will take a video of your landing from the side and at the debriefing they will show you how to correct if necessary.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[gunsmokex 1]

I think a lot of people forget the importance and purpose of toggle stalling your canopy. That's exactly how you find the sweet spot in your flare. I always see people posting flaring problems on canopies they've bought but have never bothered to do a toggle stall. You don't have to pay $$ and take a canopy course to do a toggle stall or even a rear riser stall. I guess I just don't really see the advantage of having improperly set brake lines (too high of flare or having to take wraps to get a flare).

Just make sure before you try any stalls (toggles or rears) that you talk with one of your instructors and make sure you leave yourself plenty of altitude.

[CrashProne 4]

Grab a "B License Canopy Proficiency Card" and an instructor you trust. Get briefed up on each jump, then go out and practice all the skills until you're comfortable. A good bit of this is built around feeling out the flare performance of your canopy and it can only help.

I know it did for me. I was actually flaring too late, but after lots of reps I became more comfortable flying the canopy all the way through the flare and this helped my landings a TON!

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/files/Form_CPProficiencyCard.pdf

[riggerrob 558]

Lots of good advice on this thread.

As for "ground rush"...... staring straight down shows a confusing sight picture. To avoid ground rush, focus your eyes on the horizon or far fence. Then your sight picture changes gradually, in a less scary way.

As for judging the height of your flare ..... walk around the DZ and note the height of fences, wind socks, hangars, etc. Then ask instructors which landmarks are the best for judging when to start your flare.
On final approach, get settled in your harness, breath out slowly, wiggle your toes, clamp your feet and knees together, wiggle your fingers and push toogles up to full arm's extension, focus your eyes on the horizon and glance (briefly) at the fence and windsock. When your feet are at the top of the fence, start flaring.
Talking your way through the various steps helps keep them in the correct order.

[sundevil777 93]

Perhaps there is a middle-ground somewhere between suggestions of actually looking all the way out at the horizon vs looking straight down.

Maybe looking out at where you are likely to actually land after a bit of plane-out is better.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[peek 20]

sundevil777

Perhaps there is a middle-ground somewhere between suggestions of actually looking all the way out at the horizon vs looking straight down. Maybe looking out at where you are likely to actually land after a bit of plane-out is better.

Of course it is better, and I'm glad you mentioned that. "Looking at the horizon" is what students were told back when they were jumping round parachutes. It made sense then, but no longer does. But people are still using that expression!

[Lawndarter 3]

sundevil777

Perhaps there is a middle-ground somewhere between suggestions of actually looking all the way out at the horizon vs looking straight down.

Maybe looking out at where you are likely to actually land after a bit of plane-out is better.

That's basically it. I've been using what RiggerRob suggests - I look at the horizon and down the glideslope - what I try to do once I'm on final is figure out exactly where I'm going to land and what I can see in front of me that gives me a reference point for where to flare. It's been working better though a lot my landings are still slides (which is why I've got myself a pair of swoop pants to slide in when necessary!). Part of that is that I'm still guarding the ankle I broke subconsciously.

I like the advice in the CSPA PIM - make a game of how long you can fly the canopy before landing - it seems to work for me to actually enjoy the final run in. It's building my confidence each landing.