ColdDuck 0 #1 April 6, 2005 Just curious if anyone has gone from a Sabre or sabre2 to a Katana? I was thinking of demoing a Katana 120. I am jumping a Sabre 135 loaded at about 1.45, which I have put about 625 jumps on. Thanks "Insurance should called In case shit happens, if shit don't happen shouldn't I get my money back?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #2 April 6, 2005 why not try a sabre2 120 for a while then the katana, so you're only changing one factor at a time? peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #3 April 6, 2005 not yet, but i sure plan to seeing as the katana is the premier 9-cell eliptical to date!! i jump a sabre2 170 and i plan to until i can fly the piss out of it. i want to try a katana 150/135 when they make their appearance on the market."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dead4Life 0 #4 April 6, 2005 Quotei want to try a katana 150/135 when they make their appearance on the market. That is....if they appear on the market. It's been over a year and Performance Designs can't seem to figure out how to design the larger sizes. Seems a little odd considering PD has such vast resources. Either they aren't happy with the larger sizes or they don't care enough about them to release them, or they would have by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 April 6, 2005 QuoteSeems a little odd considering PD has such vast resorces. Either they aren't happy with the larger sizes or they don't care enough about them to release them, or they would have by now. Huh, this really proves you don't know whats going on. PD has a handful of 135's they're working on right now. Canopies don't scale like some companies say they do, there are always little tweaks to make sure that all of the canopies fly very similar between the various sizes. That's what PD is doing, they've been tweaking and making various versions of the 135 for the past (atleast) year. Once that's done, they'll have the 150. They've been test jumping the shit out of the 135 prototypes, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dead4Life 0 #6 April 6, 2005 QuoteThey've been test jumping the shit out of the 135 prototypes, though. It doesn't matter if they plan on releasing it. They have already missed their target demographic. A lot of people were waiting for the Katana 135 and 150 when the Katana was first released but many have decided to get Crossfire 2's rather than wait for an indefinate release date. Many are disgusted with PD's business strategies. To only cater to the High Performance market is disrepectful and hypocritical to the mid range canopy pilots that would love to own a Katana but don't want such a high wingloading. I personally would never fly a Katana but I know many who have decided to jump ship and purchase an Icarus Xfire2. Sorry PD, you had the customers, you just refused to service them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #7 April 6, 2005 QuoteA lot of people were waiting for the Katana 135 and 150 when the Katana was first released but many have decided to get Crossfire 2's rather than wait for an indefinate release date. Aren't those the same people who would have bought Crossfire 2s anyway if the Katana 135 and 150 had never been announced? QuoteSorry PD, you had the customers, you just refused to service them. How did they "refuse" to service their customers? By not selling canopies that don't meet their standards yet? Come on man. They sell what they sell, and if you don't like it, go somewhere else but there is no reason to bitch about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #8 April 6, 2005 Quote To only cater to the High Performance market is disrepectful and hypocritical to the mid range canopy pilots that would love to own a Katana but don't want such a high wingloading. . IMHO the Katana is NOT a canopy for mid-range canopy pilots. seems to me that attitude is like driving a Porsche and not be able (as in not having the driving skills) to drive more than 120km/h on a straight road. People, please STOP showing-off your super hyper top notch elliptical canopy if you have no business flying it. End of the story.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dead4Life 0 #9 April 6, 2005 QuoteThey sell what they sell, and if you don't like it, go somewhere else but there is no reason to bitch about it. I'm not mad about it. I said I would never fly a Katana anyway. I think they are cheesy. Only skygods want them anyway. I'm simply speaking from a business perspective. It was a bad move to release a product before all their sizes were ready. There are alot more 135 and 150 canopy pilots out there than 120 or smaller. They could have made a killing if they had been ready. They really hyped this Katana like it was the second coming. If they are going to promote a product to death, at least make it accessable to your target customer base. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #10 April 6, 2005 is the katana not just a stiletto that doesn't send you to physio? check the nose of a katana and then the crossfire. you will see who has been advancing parachute technology. p.d. is simply playing catch up. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #11 April 6, 2005 tried the Katana, havent really understood what all the fuss is about. The Sabre2 is a really good chute that you can really swoop if you loaded it right. Anyway imho the Katana is not up there w. the Crossfire anyway, so why dont you stay w. the Sabre2 and learn to max it out alternatively go for the Crossfire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #12 April 6, 2005 I am a PD guy, but simply don't have a use for a Katana. I jump a Velocity 84 and a Sabre2 97. The Velo is a great tool for flat-out swooping, but requires a lot of attention from the pilot due to it's ground-hungriness and speed; it's not for everyone and I only jump mine half the time. The Sabre2, when loaded agressively like mine is, is a fantastic canopy. I swoop the piss out of it (to a complete stop on rears regularly), it opens great, and requires much less attention. The truth of the matter is that 99% of the people flying more agressive canopies have no business under them. If you are not exploiting a canopy to it's full potential, then you might as well be jumping a better-mannered canopy that you can still push very hard and have fun. The Sabre2 is a perfect all-around canopy. If I were the original poster, I would simply downsize to a Sabre2 120. At least demo one and see how you like it. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM-I, BMCI, PRO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frenchyflyer 0 #13 April 6, 2005 I have to agree with him: The Sabre2 is a really good canopy that you can learn tons of swooping skills with. I have tried the Katana-120 but have not been impressed with it. Well, sure, it's very responsive to command inputs (like the stilleto is) but this is definitely not something that I like in a canopy. I haven't been able to put my hands on a demo Xfire2 though, so I can't speak for those. With my Sabre2-120 I can outswoop many people flying a Katana-120, because I have taken the time to learn the swooping skills on my Sabre2 rather than racing to downsize to a more HP canopy... I'm betting there's tons of stuff you can still learn on your Sabre2, be patient... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #14 April 6, 2005 Yes, my wife made the jump from a Sabre2 to a Katana and downsized at the same time. Going from a Sabre2 135 to a Katana 120 should be managable considering the amount of jumps you've put on the Sabre2. What I'd do, instead of buying a Sabre2 120, is I would first demo a Sabre2 120 and see how you do under that for 2 weeks, then demo a Katana 120 and see how you do under that for 2 weeks and then make your purchasing decision. An extra 60 bucks is worth the piece of mind IMO. I LOVE the Katana (I've jumped a 107 and an 89), they're great canopies, but make no mistake they are capable of some seriously fast landings so treat it with a lot of respect. Have a good time and keep us posted on how the demo'ing goes (if you go that route). Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #15 April 6, 2005 Quotecheck the nose of a katana and then the crossfire. you will see who has been advancing parachute technology. p.d. is simply playing catch up. I disagree. Having jumped both I can safely say that the Katana, flown right will outswoop the XF2 IMO. That said I still think the XF2 is a nice canopy with a good place in the market. There's more to a canopy than a nose. By your standards the R.A.G.E. should be outperforming everything and it simply isn't. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #16 April 6, 2005 -------------------------------------------------- I disagree. Having jumped both I can safely say that the Katana, flown right will outswoop the XF2 IMO. ------------------------------------------------------ well.... That is not exactly my experience, dude , I think they are very much the same w. respect to swooping. Other than that the Crossfire openings are much more delicate and controlled due to the nose design that <> openings, i think you agree, if not try again. But whatever fits you (and me)... Sorry about this detour guys, I stil agree that the Sabre2 really can swooop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #17 April 6, 2005 QuoteCrossfire openings are much more delicate and controlled due to the nose design Heh. I guess it's just proof that one size doesn't fit all (on both sides). I hated the XF2 openings, I found them much more squirrely (and diving) than my velo QuoteBut whatever fits you (and me)... Yeah, you're right. I think it's 99% pilot style and preference when it comes to these two canopies. It's funny how two different pilots can come away with 2 very different opinions on things. Just another reason it's great to have choices in this market QuoteSorry about this detour guys, I stil agree that the Sabre2 really can swooop Amen. Stay safe Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #18 April 6, 2005 Quote I was thinking of demoing a Katana 120. I am jumping a Sabre 135 loaded at about 1.45, which I have put about 625 jumps on. Thanks Changing both planform and size at the same time is not the best idea. It's safer to get used to the different harness input sensitivity, dive characteristics, etc. with less speed than more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
isaiah85 0 #19 April 6, 2005 It is funny how you can get totally different opinions on the came canopies, personally I like them both, each one for different reasons. I have more jumps on the XF2 (500) than the Katana, when I first jumped the Katana I could get longer swoops out of the XF2, I didn't really like the Katana at first (just because they feel so totally different from each other), once I put a bunch of jumps and got familiar with the Katana (took about 40-50 jumps for me) I liked it more than the XF2. Now I think I can get longer swoops with the Katana. I think there both great canopies though, What I like about the Katana is the super light riser presser and the bottom end, you can fly it to a stop. Back to the original post though, it would be a good idea to try the Sabre2 120, then the Katana 120, it's a nice step from the Sabre2 to the Katana. You should also try the XF2 if you get the chance, both canopies are in the same performance range. Later, Isaiah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #20 April 6, 2005 Quote If they are going to promote a product to death, at least make it accessable to your target customer base. And what is their target base on the Katana? Since it IS a high performance canopy for very experienced skydivers who normally load their canopy down a bit.....? How many people are out there who fullfill that parameter on a 150 Katana? At a 1.75 wingloading your looking at someone around 260 out the door. QuoteMany are disgusted with PD's business strategies. Waiting to hear the "masses" speak out on this.....Oh wait they did, and they weren't "disgusted". QuoteTo only cater to the High Performance market is disrepectful and hypocritical to the mid range canopy pilots that would love to own a Katana but don't want such a high wingloading. Hence the entire line of PD canopies....If you are a midrange canopy pilot, your not jumping a Katana.(or at least shouldn't be) QuoteI'm simply speaking from a business perspective. There are alot more 135 and 150 canopy pilots out there than 120 or smaller. And most of those people jumping 135's and 150's are not looking for an aggressive of a canopy like a Katana......get a sabre2 or spectre..or are those "disrepectful and hypocritical ?" All this "business talk"...what type of business are you in? Every company out there will diversify and try to meet the needs of the market. The Katana does just that, as does the Sabre 2 and every other canopy they make. What do you care if they haven't got a 135 & 150 out yet? You already said you wouldn't jump one....or is this a hate the giant thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #21 April 6, 2005 Quote There are alot more 135 and 150 canopy pilots out there than 120 or smaller. They could have made a killing if they had been ready. If they are going to promote a product to death, at least make it accessable to your target customer base. The Katana was never intended as an all-rounder canopy to be flown by people with 421 jumps. PD knows that there are more people jumping canopies in the 135+ range than in the 120- range, that's why they build Sabre 2s, Spectres, etc. in the upper size ranges. The target market for the Katana is the highly experienced pilot that really wants to load the canopy - basically the same market as for braced canopies. How many 135 or 150 cross braced canopies have you seen? Maybe instead of trying to make a killing, what they're trying to do is prevent a killing... Canuck edit: Damn you Divenswoop for posting the same time I did!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djd 0 #22 April 6, 2005 i just got my katana 107, i have 850 jumps and think its awsome. ive had a stilleto 120 that was good too but this just feels better. couldnt agree more about its not a mid range canopy, you want slower buy slower, i love the speed of the thing but am still treating it with a hell of a lot of respect due to my inexperience at swooping, i dont want to be a statistic but i still wana have fun, slowly slowly catch a monkey type thing, learn and take lessons too, we all have to start somewere, and i think pd's customer base is spot on, if you wouldnt think of buying a 120 then you shouldnt be getting a katana or anything like it. dont moan for the sake of moaning get out and jump, oh and dont forget to smile afterwards either. soft landings... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #23 April 6, 2005 QuoteThey have already missed their target demographic. And you know this how? The majority of the people who were trying to buy 135's or 150's from me when the Katana came out didn't belong on that canopy. It is NOT an "intermediate" wing.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #24 April 6, 2005 Quote How many people are out there who fullfill that parameter on a 150 Katana? At a 1.75 wingloading your looking at someone around 260 out the door. You've got 1 person that I know of. I wanted to get my hands on a Katana 150 before I bought my XF2, BUT I knew that they were working on it and it might take a little while. So I bought my XF2 knowing that once the Katana came out, if I liked it, I could sell my XF2 and buy a Katana. No worries. Oh, I load my XF2 149 at 1.9:1--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColdDuck 0 #25 April 6, 2005 I have had the opportunity to demo a Sabre 2 120 about a year ago. I thought it was a great canopy, great openings, fun to fly. After putting about twenty jumps or so on the demo I felt that I might want something a little more agressive, which is the reason I posted my original question. Thanks "Insurance should called In case shit happens, if shit don't happen shouldn't I get my money back?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
