vandev 0 #1 November 23, 2002 Could anybody give me some feedback between these 2 canopies? To keep it short. My last canopy was saber 97, i sky surf, open high, dont hook, but like the flying handeling of small canopiies. Feel lost with 149-169 size canopies hard to judge and allot of braking. Have about 480 jumps all mostly freely and skysurf. I have the opertunity to get either a crossfire 109 or a safire 119. I weigh about 183 but when i had the 97, i weighed 190. i never had to runout a landing. go figure. i ried a stiletto 135 and didnt like it to much. I should be around 175 in a month or so , my in shape jump weight. Someone told me that the crossfire will give me a smoother landing on a no wind day with my wing loading than the safire because it generates more lift. Can anyone give me some advise as i only have flown PD 's. My reserver is a 113 and i have 2 rides on thoes with no problems, actually would make great main. Thanks everyone! In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmcvey 0 #2 November 23, 2002 The crossfire is an excellent canopy and you will love it but unlike the sabre its elliptical/HP and may disagree with skysurfing deployments/malfuntions. The safire is a nine cell semi-elliptical (??) i think. but have never jumped one so can't comment on how it performs. I also no nothing about skysurfing apart from i wouldnt want to jump a crossfire at the wingloading you suggest on a board jump, but you need to speak to someone more expierenced in skysurfing about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #3 November 23, 2002 The Safire is a nice all around canopy. Front riser pressure is decent, not light but decent. The openings are brisk without being hard. Not a snivel in the least. Canopy performs nicely in pretty much any circumstances. Crossfire is prone to sniveling, according to Icarus a smaller slider can be put on them to speed the opening up. The Crossfire will handle much better and land faster than the Safire...by far. Depending on if the canopy is pre-mod or not will determine the front riser pressure. A modified Crossfire normal has much greater front riser pressure. I'd take a Cobalt over either of them and have not jumped a CF2 yet to judge against that. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #4 November 23, 2002 Thanks for the reply. My wing loading at 175lb my optimum weight is between 1.4 to 1.65 for a 109crossfire or 119 safire. I was at about 1.9 on my saber 97 at exit and i was very comfortable. i dont hook or swoop so i did'nt experiance the canopy at it's max working speed. In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ojf1982 0 #5 November 24, 2002 QuoteThe crossfire is an excellent canopy and you will love it but unlike the sabre its elliptical/HP and may disagree with skysurfing deployments/malfuntions. I would have to disagree with that statement. Keith Snyder, US skysurfing champion, jumps a crossfire.The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over - Hunter S. Thompson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #6 November 24, 2002 A few things to be aware of: 1) Original Safire's are 8% smaller than their stated size (this was changes with the Safire 2). 2) there is a world of difference between Safire's made by Presision and the one's made in Spain(from my understanding the one's mader by Presision open quicker ie hard, and do not have that ton of flare). The Safire I had was made in Spain and flew great had a ton of flare, light to medium riser pressure, and a long recovery arch. The Crossfire is nice soft openning canopy. They have high riser pressure, long recovery arch and a ton of flare. I personally own a Crossfire 2 and there is a world of difference between the original and the Crossfire 2. All changes are great and make one totally cool canopy, however I would question if it would be a good choice for skyboarding. Hope that helps some Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #7 November 24, 2002 Thanks Omar, all the input really helps. Blue Skies Bro! In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #8 November 24, 2002 Thanks talonssky, I didnt know there was a differance between the 1 and 2. Blues Skies bro! In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SurfFlite 0 #9 November 24, 2002 Also keep in mind that Keith Snyder is a world class athlete that has 1000's of board jumps. It is recommended that skysurfers use a canopy that has two important characteristics. Soft sniveling openings and canopies that are not as suseptable to line twists. There could be that day when your canopy deploys while you are still rotating and a high performance, high wing loaded elliptical canopy would not help the situation.Kerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meerkatt 0 #10 November 25, 2002 I jump a xfire @ 1.4 & cant say a bad thing about it...soft staged openings that are easy to fly if it looks like twisting.I have managed to get a few line twists but the canopy still flew ok... no big windup & easy kickout. Even at my light loading landings are fun,the xfire wants to swoop! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #11 November 29, 2002 I have about 500 jumps on an original Xfire loaded at 1.85/1. It's an awsume canopy not prone to line twist with a sweet opening. The only skysurfers at my DZ both jump them. The Safire is a canopy that to get a good flare requires a fast (hook like) landing. My 99' will be available in a couple of weeks if you're interested. I have a XAOS 84 now going back for a reline. Blue ones, Conway C 1062 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #12 November 29, 2002 QuoteThe Safire is a canopy that to get a good flare requires a fast (hook like) landing. uhh??....I can get mongo flare out of mine and dont need any type of front riser carve or hook to make it pop me back up....I have standard trim too... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #13 November 29, 2002 QuoteThe Safire is a canopy that to get a good flare requires a fast (hook like) landing. I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap. I jump a safire at about 1.5:1 and I have absolutely no problems with the flare, I've even got my brakes lengthened so much that I'm convinced I'm not getting ALL the flare I can. Your complaint about the lack of flare on a Safire suggests to me that you never really fully learned to flare/fly the canopy. Nothing personal, it's something I hear from lots of people who previously jumped canopies with a shorter control range. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #14 November 29, 2002 Thanks kerry, All the information really helps. Blue skies bro!! In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #15 November 29, 2002 Thanks bro, i think the 99 would be a little small for me on a no wind day. i had a saber 97 but it was like no other. i never ran out a landing on a no wind day. Go figure..I weighed 190 then... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #16 November 29, 2002 Thanks bro, This really helps. Blue Skies!! In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #17 November 29, 2002 Thanks a bunch bro...Thanks for taking the time.. And too all who have posted to my thread... Your all Bro's... Blue Skies everyone...! In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #18 November 30, 2002 Sorry for the BULLSHIT, I have never jumped a Safire! I was only going on other peoples I know's opinion of the canopy! I do know that the XFire has a ton more flare though than the Safire! That's my 99 Xfire in the picture. C 1067 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #19 November 30, 2002 considering the xfire is eliptical of course it has more flare....the safire is only a semi.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #20 November 30, 2002 Quoteconsidering the xfire is eliptical of course it has more flare....the safire is only a semi.... how does the degree of 'taper' affect flare...? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar 0 #21 November 30, 2002 Could the reasoning be that more taper -> higher aspect rato -> higher loading -> more speed -> more lift?--- PCSS #10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 November 30, 2002 Yeah, maybe, BUT the taper of the canopy has no direct corralation to the flare. It does have a direct effect on how it turns, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #23 November 30, 2002 I have jumped the crossfire 1 149 down to the 119 and crossfire 2 from 119 down to a 105. I jumped a saffire 138 and 149 but never the saffire 2. I say go crossfire 2...the front riser pressure is very light the toffle stroke is close to as short as a stilletto and glide is very flat, and it dives like a MF. great all around canopy.. I have landed the 105 stright in with no run out at the end.. it definately has mucho flare. the safires that I have jumped tent to have good top end flare but it dies off a little before the end. could be that I have mostly jumped the crossfire and that I wasnt flying the saffire the way it needed to be flown, but I would definately say that for me the crossfire is the way to go. just my 2 cents... I also jumped a 120 cobalt and it kind of reminded me of the saffire.. granted I was in a pretty decent wind, but I could barely get any swoop out of it... some of the people at san marcos who regularly jump the cobalt told me a couple of things that may have reflected my experience with that particular canopy... 1. the canopy looked like it had quite a handful of jumps on it and the lines may have been out of trim, and 2. someone said that I needed to load it more to get more bottom end flare.. (kinda sounded like a crock to me because atair claims it is an all around canopy, and should be able to land it slow and fast. anyways I went with a CF2 and its on its way! -yoshi_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #24 November 30, 2002 Safire and Crossfire?? I have jumped them both.. Safire 1.4ish and crossfire1 at 1.7. I didn't notice a TON of difference in the 2. The crossfire had a bit more bottom end. Safire was a little more forgiving a bit more docile. I didn't quiet load the Saffire like the crossfire but I know how it flies. Both are excellent canopies. Crossfire a bit more high performance all around. Now, Crossfire2?? Not even in the same ballpark as a safire or the original crossfire. Much different beast. Flies like it is on rails and is responsive to every movement you make. I think it boils down to what flight characteristics are important to you? If you can say this, this, this and this is what I like my canopy to do it is a bit easier to give you the information you are looking for.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #25 December 2, 2002 i agree with Yoshi....i'm not a canopy expert, but i'd suggest crossfire. I got a safire now with over 400 jumps on it, and my safire is a little tricky to get good flares out of. If you come straight in, don't add speed, the end of the flare is like a sponge. I usually front riser in some way to build speed to land nicely and get a decent swoop. I know several others at my home DZ who ordered a safire around the same time i did and have similar problems. These are safire 1's, made in spring of 2001. I haven't jumped the safire 2, but i've talked to many who have and the 2 doesn't have that common problem as some of the 1's did. I do a little skysurfin as well, all with my safire, no problem. But i do build extra speed to land, even with the board. I've also demoed crossfire's down to a 108, and all around I think it's a better canopy, from my experience. anyone want to buy a safire(1) 139 with about 400 jumps on it? I'll show you how to land it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
