Did you take a canopy control class?

[Michele 1]

I've been curious, and in light of recent full canopy injuries and fatalities, I thought I'd post the poll. It's serious, folks, and I really am curious as to the numbers it will produce.

In addition to the poll, if you'd take a minute and answer the questions below, I'd appreciate it.

~If you have taken a class, how thorough was it, and when did you take it?

~If you haven't, please articulate why not. Too expensive? Not available? Not encouraged?

~If you plan on it, why do you plan on it?

~If you did with a specific goal in mind (i.e., learning to swoop), did you learn that goal?

~If you teach a canopy control class, please give me a general breakdown of who comes and at what skill level they are, and what their goal is.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

My answer:

I took one at jump #40, to learn to land safely, and to really learn how to handle my canopy during regular (not high performance) flight. I also took it to downsize safely. While I still don't land well, I am crashing far less often, and when I do, it is more controlled.

My course consisted of a several hour ground school, and 5 jumps, one from altitude, with a coach next to me going through things with me.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[ianmdrennan 2]

Scott Miller is coming to Jumptown MA in early May - catering to ALL skill levels. The class filled up all 3 days in less than a few hours. I will be attending all three days to try soak up as much knowledge as possible.

I plan on it for a number of reasons, but can be summed up as "To be the safest, most efficient, and farthest swooping canopy pilot I can be, as well as a source of reliable canopy control knowledge at the dropzone".

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[PhreeZone 15]

I've never taken a formal class but I've sat in in Brian Germain lectures about 5 times now and learn something every time and a John Leblanc seminar a few times. John and Brian cover very different idea's but both are great. Brian is now even doing classes and indivudial training I heard. If I was close to Zhill's I'd be all over that.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[gale 0]

Hi Michele,

Well I will say that your story of how great your canopy control class was has encouraged me to take one. However, I don't know of ANY in Canada. From the people I've asked they say there isn't one. (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I'm on Vancouver Island which is in Southern British Columbia, for those who don't know. Great scenery, but not a huge jumping scene like you would find in some of the southern states.

I did however read the post about the canopy class happening in Oregon and I'm planning on taking it. It's the closest one to my dropzone I've heard of. These are the details I have about the course: "Our teaching is based on an understanding of aerodynamics. There is a four hour ground school, followed by two full-altitude hop-n-pops. Then three jumps from 4000ft agl. All designed to be completed in one day, with additional coaching available."

And yes, it's expensive for me because it's in American dollars. I'm going to try the best I can to come up with the money though, because as some postings keep reminding me - you need to land every jump safely so you can enjoy the next one.

I'm at around the same place you were when you went. My goal is to be able to FLY my canopy instead of feeling like it is flying me. I want to land as safely as possible. I want to feel more confident under canopy.

I must say I'm really intimidated by walking into a room and asking for help with my landings. I know I need it, but I'm embarassed to be so far behind the curve. This isn't a good reason not to do it, but I must say that it definately goes through my head. It seems like everyone but me can stand a landing (and boy do people keep reminding me). But that's why I want to go. I hope some structured training with someone specifically critiquing my landings will help. It's tough to get this where I am especially since we don't land at the hanger.

Good question. I'm looking forward to what others say. Thanks for sharing your experience - it inspired at least one person to do the same!

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[jceman 1]

Shortly after I graduated from AFF and after I got my own gear, I attended a 2-day accuracy camp with John Eiff and Nancy LaRiviere.

I simply wanted to learn more about canopy control in general and got that in spades. What I took from that weekend has helped me on more than one occasion. One of the most memorable was my fourth jump back after I had shattered my right femur: short story, a long spot and no way I was making it back to the airport -- landed on the corner of two highways, trees on two sides, power lines on the other two, approximately 100 feet by 75 feet. I had to do two low 360s, first to be certain of where the power lines were and than to stay in that area. Piece of cake. But if I hadn't learned how to sink in to a small target, it might have been a far different story.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[AggieDave 6]

Yes and it made a huge difference. It got me to a point where I was able to start quickly progressing to where I want to eventually be with my canopy skills.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Oh, I forgot to add, that I've also read and studied everything I could get my hands on about canopy flight and just flight in general.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DivaSkyChick 0]

You know what, Michelle? I haven't and I know I should - my landings are very hit and miss. Maybe that should read "hit and roll." lol

I guess I haven't because I put my cash into more jumps, freefly skills coaching, skysurf coaching - the exciting stuff, or so I thought. I'm rethinking that and will probably hit up Wyat for some coaching when he gets back from his next trip. We're so lucky in Southern California to have access to some of the best canopy fliers in the world, it's seems nuts not to take advantage of it - and whether I freefly, skysurf or bellyfly on any particular dive, the thing I gotta do no matter what is fly that canopy.

So for sure this spring. Bug me about it when you see me, yeah?

xoxoxxoxo
M

---
www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch

[Michele 1]

Quote

Bug me about it when you see me, yeah?

Yep, I can do that...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SLOfreefall 0]

I have not taken a canopy control class as of yet. My home DZ is kinda small and has yet to offer such a class. Actually, my home DZ is no longer operating.
I'd jump at the opportunity to attend such a class. I feel that any way I could impove on a skill that increases my safety would be worthwhile to improve.

[ralu 0]

At my dz every year you make a refresher or if your level is higher than the precedent year you make a more advanced course. I think this is great because of the long interruptions (we have here long winters). We focus into accuracy.

ralu

what would be a woman without her dreams....

[skymama 35]

I've taken 2 canopy control classes with Scott Miller. The first at about 40 jumps was just so I could learn to land on my feet. The second was at 200 jumps and it was so I could work on accuracy and to learn more about flying the canopy instead of it flying me. Scott is incredibly thorough in his explainations and makes it easy to understand what he is talking about. His classes consist of videoing your landings, debriefs, and ground school. I'm very fortunate to have him hanging around my home dz all the time.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[skygod7777 0]

no, i didn't take one. when i stated doing hook turns or carving turns, i was too young to go to most dz's to take a course like that. and i had no cash to anyway. no one at my dz took a course. basically, we taught our selves. and needless to say, we pounded our selves in a couple times . BUT, even though i never took any kind of canopy coaching, i read everything i could about it. tried to learn as much as i could about things like that before i started.

if i was starting to do hooks/carves now, i definitely would take a course. they are so helpful, and will keep you much safer

later

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I did some ground training with Hooknswoop being my canopy professor, but only managed to do one evaluation jump due to the very cool weather at the time. Hopefully Hook will be holding another canopy camp sometime soon and I can get more evaluation jumps in.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Jib 0]

I took Scott Miller's class as soon as I got my A. It took a full day and gave me a better understanding of how to fly a canopy and confidence therein, which I think decreases the likelihood of injury from panic and/or stopping flying the canopy.

I thought my first jump was pretty good conisdering it was a new canopy to me, but Scott made suggestions to make it better. The second jump I popped up for the first time and did everything wrong but PLF. It seemed more drastic than it was. Watching the video, Scott showed me everything I did wrong (reach for the ground, let up on toggles, etc as well as what I did right) and made it clear that I could have rode it out and made a decent landing. I gained a lot from that crash and the subsequent landings applying its lessons in both confidence and skill. It was money very well spent.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Pablito 0]

Yes I took a course and I had really good canopy pilots around me when I started skydiving. I read as much as I can about canopies. I try to filter the good information and disregard the bad information that is out there.
Blue ones and never stop learining. And enjoy today as there is no tomorrow. Today is a very special day.

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[flyhi 24]

I took a course with Scott Miller at Deland and he had some video of a chick with 40 jumps that were really funny. It made the whole class worthwhile.

In answer to your questions:

I took the class after I downsized and, that same weekend, was faced with three-days of zero winds. It was very humbling. Scott did an excellent job and his sequence (as best I remember it) was approximately:

1. First Jump - Do what you do. Scott video'd and critiqued the jump. He discussed the entire process from opening to landing to include turns (toggle, riser, harness) and timing and altitudes.
2. Second Jump - Do what you learned on the critique. Briefings proved very beneficial. Did turns under canopy to determine altitudes and affects. Used critique from first jump for straight in landing. In depth critique of video'd landing afterwards.
3. Third Jump - Evaluated altitude lost by riser turns. Tried harness turns. Landed straight-in using previously critiqued improvements. Extended debrief.
4. Fourth Jump - did a 180-degree riser turn with another 180-degree harness turn. Also practiced flat turns at altitude. Used front riser assist on straight in landing approach. Massive debrief of video'd landing.
5. Practiced turns of choice at altitude. Worked on perfecting pattern. Did a ninety degree riser to final approach.

All of the debriefs were excellent and highly beneficial. Confidence increased by 113% over the five jumps. I would recommend a canopy course for anyone and Scott's for anyone w/in his vicinity. I don't remember what I paid, but I know it was worth it.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[jessd 0]

Quote

Scott Miller is coming to Jumptown MA in early May - catering to ALL skill levels. The class filled up all 3 days in less than a few hours.

Ian is the course totally full? I would be interested in taking a canopy control class. The part of skydiving that freaks me the most is being under canopy.

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away..."

[ianmdrennan 2]

Jess,

Yes the class is full on the coaching side, but contact Diane Pond to put you on the reserve list. The seminars are free and open to all though. Please do attend on Saturday night - I'm sure you'll find it worthwhile.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Kirils 1]

My wife and I took the class from Scott together. we both considered it a total waste of our money. Sure it's nice to have video of your landings, but what the hay, it's not worth the price of the course! We both walked away feeling burned and learning nothing.

[ianmdrennan 2]

We're paying 45 reg + 25 per jump. Not much more than anything else. Personally I'd rather take it and learn nothing than not take it and miss a chance to learn something I didn't know.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Will let you know how ours goes.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[PhreeZone 15]

What type of feedback did Scott give you on each of your jumps?

Granted I've heard people who went into Brian Germains seminars that thought the Airlock design was a gimick say Brian did'nt did'nt know the difference between a kite and an airplane, and I've talked to someone that sat in on a John Leblanc class say John was blowing smoke up everyones rear that was in the audience. I fully believe that you will only get something out of the experience if you go in with an open mind and the assumption that everything you know is wrong.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Michele 1]

Kirils

Quote

we both considered it a total waste of our money

Fair enough.

Couple of questions, though, if you don't mind.

1. Did you ever have any canopy coaching prior to, or since?
2. What jump numbers did you take the class at?
3. Would you consider taking a canopy class from a different teacher?

It's all good, just curious on those aspects. Thanks!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[ManBird 0]

I received coaching from Evolution when they were starting the program at Elsinore, and also took a class from Jim Slaton at Skydive Oregon. The results have been great. If I got a swoop before, it was basically luck, and a wonder I didn't hurt myself. Now, I actually know what's going on (especially after Jim Slaton explained a few things). I won't say I have the skill yet, but I know what to work on, how to do it safely, and have vastly improved the quality and control of my flight, openings, and landings.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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