jtval 0 #1 October 23, 2002 Ok I am starting to save for a new(secondary) rig. I really think I would like the Mirages but I havent seen any in person. what are the pro's and con's in your opinion(I cant expect you to give me MY opinion!) I want eo use it primarily for Freefly!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #2 October 23, 2002 Both are perfectly serviceable rigs.IMHO I like the Javelin Odessy. No big reasons....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #3 October 23, 2002 new secondary rig????? if its a secondary, why not used?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #4 October 23, 2002 well NEW to me? My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #5 October 23, 2002 both rigs are excellent rigs. both very comfortable. and both very freefly safe. but the mirage is a lot more $$, and i don't think it's worth the extra money. for riggers, javelins are much easier to pack, mirages aren't bad, but can be a pain (i don't mind either one). so i would say buy the one you think looks best. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #6 October 23, 2002 They are both good rigs. You are using a Javelin already so it would probably make sense to buy another Javelin to keep consistency with packing etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #7 October 23, 2002 first of all i have to worn you i'm "in love with mirage g4" I think mirage g4 is a little more freefly friendly. it has secondary riser covers (i don't know if oddysee has them). Good thing on mirage g4 are FancyPants leg strap retainers. Which keep the legstraps from slipping down your legs (legstraps slipping is pretty common at javelins - those that i jumped). And bridle protection from pin to pilot chute is much better at Mirage than at oddysee including cover flap. And G4 is more aerodynamicaly shaped than oddysee. other things (comfort, visual appearance) are just personal opinions. Hope that helps a little. "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #8 October 23, 2002 George.. "it has secondary riser covers" Odessy doesn't have these, doesn't need them if the primaries stay shut, mine do. "leg strap retainers" My Oddy has these. "bridle protection from pin to pilot chute is much better at Mirage than at oddysee" Basically the same if you opt for the freefly pud option..ie zero exposed bridle. Not sure about the importance of an 'aerodynamic' rig.. Major difference in design is that the Jav has a res PC 'external' to the res closing flaps, if you know what I mean. Mirage has its res PC internal. I don't know if this is influential to any sort of scenarios....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #9 October 23, 2002 If you already have a Javelin, and are looking to get a second rig to hold the same size canopies, get another Javelin. That way, you can get ONE spare freebag, PC and set of handles and be prepared for a reserve ride on either rig. As for an "aerodynamic" rig- why would you want a rig the will make you fall faster? Since "more aerodynamic" = "less drag".VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #10 October 23, 2002 Not faster, just free. I tried a SkyMaster 270 for a joke, and it sure is different to fly stand or head down with skymaster 270, because of the size of container. But i don't think you would notice the difference between mirage and javelin the same size..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #11 October 23, 2002 I need to downsize soon and my container wont hold anything less then a 190. so I need something smaller to get into I think the wind drag is whats hindering my progression in FF! I am getting back to where I was before I went to korea but it seems slow to progression!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 October 23, 2002 >so I need something smaller to get into I think the wind drag is whats hindering my progression in FF! Thats funny... I'll grab a rig with a Manta 288 and a Raven 3 reserve and take it out freeflying any day of the week and it does'nt hurt my freeflying.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #13 October 23, 2002 Quote >so I need something smaller to get into I think the wind drag is whats hindering my progression in FF! Thats funny... I'll grab a rig with a Manta 288 and a Raven 3 reserve and take it out freeflying any day of the week and it does'nt hurt my freeflying. ok so Im a weak free flyer.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #14 October 23, 2002 For what Mirage is charging, Infinities already includes them. And those leg strap retainers... You don't need 'em as long as the rig fits. As for looks, you should see Andy Farrington's brand spankin' new camo.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #15 October 23, 2002 QuoteYou don't need 'em as long as the rig fits That isn't quite true or you wouldn't see people with every kind of rig out there having bungee across their butt. If you have hip rings, the odds are your leg straps will move because that is what hip rings are for, to make your leg straps move with your body naturally. My rig fits perfectly but, as a very flexible person my leg straps will slip down my legs while doing RW, that little bit of bungee is a god sent, and way better than the pull up cord I used to tie my leg straps together on my last rig.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #16 October 23, 2002 Quote my leg straps will slip down my legs while doing RW And I'm sure your honey didn't have anything to do with it.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #17 October 31, 2002 from what i hear...(i havent seen it with my own 2 eyes), but a friend bought a g4 and he said that the freebag was black?!?!? so if you cut away, you can kiss that one goodbye and plan on buying a new one from mirage. good marketing plan, i guess. i have both an odyssey & g3. Javelin is my preferred rig...its like you arent wearing a rig at all, they are so comfortable!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #18 November 1, 2002 Quote a friend bought a g4 and he said that the freebag was black?!?!? Thanks for the advise.. Im gonna buy a mirage G4 soon so I guess I have to ask if they can get me a white one (or at least something more visible than black) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #19 November 1, 2002 Quotefrom what i hear...(i havent seen it with my own 2 eyes), but a friend bought a g4 and he said that the freebag was black?!?!? so if you cut away, you can kiss that one goodbye and plan on buying a new one from mirage. good marketing plan, i guess. i have both an odyssey & g3. Javelin is my preferred rig...its like you arent wearing a rig at all, they are so comfortable!!! Guess what, a friend had a cutaway on a Javelin and *gasp* the PC was BLACK!! it was in a tree in the bushes, we found it no problem. I got to play touchy feely with a G4 today. very nice rig, again, Mirage has done an excellent job in the details (where it really matters IMO). The Lumbar support is adjustable, and VERY easily replaced if necesary (you could even make one if so inclined). I' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #20 November 1, 2002 Quotefrom what i hear...(i havent seen it with my own 2 eyes), but a friend bought a g4 and he said that the freebag was black?!?!? Dolphin freebags are black...I don't think it's that rare.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyanvil 0 #21 November 1, 2002 >And those leg strap retainers... You don't need 'em >as long as the rig fits. Dude, this is not great advice, and I'm not sure what it's based on since buddies profile states that his main discipline FS, and #2 is style. You said you were freeflying with the rig, so the circumstances are different. I would recommend something to hold your leg straps from coming up to your knees as i'm sure most people would.Vid "stons fal, evrysing fals, but doesnt on purpos change its flite pas an positioning..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #22 November 1, 2002 Have you considered a Vector? I personally prefer the Vector-style pin flaps (the kind that flip up over the pin rather than tuck under like the Jav). I've never had my riser covers, pin flap or reserve flap come open on me. In fact, 9x out of 10 my main pin flap will still be closed when I'm on the ground... my understanding is that it was designed to do that. I jumped a borrowed Jav up in Dallas and the reserve flap was open each time I got back down. I've also see way too much video of Jav main flaps flapping in the wind in freefall. Vectors are frickin' bulletproof and are designed to be that way. If I couldn't get a Vector my next choice would be a Mirage. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E150 0 #23 November 1, 2002 I have recently ordered a new rig, having previously had an Atom. It was between a Mirage and a Javelin. I decided against a Mirage because they charge so much for all the extras. Also, I got a good deal on the Javelin Oddysey. Sunpath have been fantastic with their customer service. I simply could not fault them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #24 November 1, 2002 Quote I've also see way too much video of Jav main flaps flapping in the wind in freefall. This is usually on older ones... but still, given the choice, I'd rather buy something that's still going to be bulletproof when it gets old. And the G4 looks pretty damn cool... now all I need if for mirage systems to sponser me! it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #25 November 1, 2002 >This is usually on older ones... Mine is a model year 06/1999 and I had issues with this unless I had a really loose closing loop. Then I was told its my packing style. I tend to place a lot of the bulk right in the middle of my pack jobs. Once I started pounding the canopy to move it in the Dbag to fill it more my issues went away.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
