Canopy Colors and wear??

[freeflir29 0]

Is there any discernable difference in wear on differen't color canopies. Especially between light and dark colors. I was thinking of getting an almost all black canopy when I downsize but will this be subject to more or less UV damage?
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[fonz 0]

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getting an almost all black canopy

Cool idea When I'm buying my first (new/custom) canopy, there's going to be a lot of black on it!
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I seem to remember somebody telling me that dark colours degraded in UV more than light.
It may have been DZ myth, I can't really see manufacturers providing assymetrically coloured canopies that would develop turns......
D

[PhreeZone 15]

The Fabric will be subject to the same amount of UV as anything else, but if it is a dark color it can hold heat longer and heat damages raw nylon. Granted ZP is just f111 thats basicly been heat treated so it should'nt matter.
And Clay, look at used gear instead of new. I know you are down sizing and the way you fly you will probally want to down size a second time next year. I think you should stay at the same size, but thats another matter altoghter......
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[freeflir29 0]

"I think you should stay at the same size"
Actually I'm rethinking that whole downsizing thing. I might just stick to one size down for now. (Cobalt 170) After having almost ZERO wind this weekend it makes me think twice about wanting to go any faster.......A simple 180 hook and I was screamin!!! Maybe it's just because I hadn't jumped in 3 weeks...LOL
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[PhreeZone 15]

As much as I love my Cobalt, look at other canopys too. You can pick up a used Sabre 170 with low jumps for half the price of a new Cobalt and that leaves a lot for jump tickets. The Sabre was the original swoop machine and it still performs great. For that matter look at Safire's and other ZP canopies too. But seriously look at getting a used insted of ordering new. Save the money to stay current.....
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I've heard that the coloured lines on hornets etc wear faster as well - any truth in that?
Support the cause - do a skydive(r)

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[cloud9 0]

I doubt it, as the lines are not colored. Just the tabs on the canopy. I don't see how that could cause any extra wear.

[Jimbo 0]

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I was thinking of getting an almost all black canopy

Something to think about when choosing canopy colors is how you're going to find it after a cutaway. If it lands in a wooded area in the top of a tree it's going to be a lot easier to find a brightly colored canopy than it is an all black canopy.
Just something to think about...

[freeflir29 0]

"brightly colored canopy than it is an all black canopy."
Good point...but I can't get over how cool an all black Cobalt with Purple diamonds would look....."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[billvon 2,400]

Some colors are just plain bad. PD sold silver ZP fabric for a while. It looked really cool (like shiny aluminum) but got porous very quickly. Aerodyne had a period of a few years where they got some bum South African fabrics, and Triathalons from that period don't last as long as other ZPs.
The pigment in your canopy can help protect it from UV by just plain shading - pigment blocks light, and UV is light. Dark colors are best, white is worst. Bright colors tend to fade quickly. For some reason, the real neons lose their color the fastest. I have never heard of the "black fabrics are hot" thing be an issue, since canopies have so much surface area to get rid of the heat.
-bill von

[cobaltdan 0]

>Dark colors are best, white is worst. Bright colors tend to fade quickly. For
some reason, the real neons lose their color the fastest.
we made 2 black cobalts for a dz owner in CA, i'm not into all black canopies but they did look kindof cool.
as far as 1 color lasting longer than another according to gelvenor all colors will exhibit equal wear, some pigments will degrade faster than others. degraded pigments have nothing to do with the structural integrity of the fabric. neon colors fade because active components in the pigments actually flouresce. these flourescent compounts degrade over time with exposure to blue and uv light. uv coatings protect the fabric but the do not filter the blue spectrum of light.
most all our demo's are white, with the gelvenor fabric they do not seem to age any faster than other colors. we did have one hanging on a wall in our office subjected to constant direct sunlight. after about 8 months the bright white was noticable yellowed. interesting note we tested the fabric strength and it showed no difference from new. the fabric has good uv protectors but the courmarin whiteners are still degraded by blue spectrum light.
sincerely,
dan
atair

[skybytch 259]

One thing about white on a canopy or a container... if you jump in the desert (Perris, Eloy, etc.) be prepared for it not to stay white very long no matter how careful you are. Regardless of where you jump I would suggest using a color other than white for the center cell; again, not from a wear point of view as much as keeping it looking good (think about that sweat dripping off your forehead as you're packing...). Since after all, skydiving is all about how you look
pull and flare,
lisa
--

[prost 0]

And I thought I was the only one who noticed this.
William

[Geoff 0]

A related question: do different colours (yes that's brit spelling) stretch or shrink differently with UV exposure or age?
I've always thought that symmetrical canopy colours would be safer just in case there is any difference.
Or does ZP not stretch or shrink at all with age?
Geoff

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Geoff:
I think a one colour (yes, its canadian spelling) canopy is best. The fabric is manufactured in batch, and as such, batch variation may occur. You minimize your chances of having a canopy made of diff batches if its all the same colour (or at the least, same color - I'm bilingual - for top and bottom skins).
Remi
Muff 914

[weid14 0]

true there is batch variation in color (american english), but the dimensional tolerances come when the fabric is cut and sewn.

[RemiAndKaren 0]

color is the least of my worries.. the variations in coating and had it lasts from batch to batch is more important to me. We returned a canopy that had been packed indoors (except for 4 jumps) and had less then 100 jumps to PD because one of the colors (neon yellow incidently) had lost a lots of its ZPness (you could easily breathe through the fabric). This was the central 3 cells of a Sabre. PD acknowledged that the fabric had degraded and replaced the canopy for a nominal fee.
Remi
Muff 914

[weid14 0]

I wonder if the fabric was from the begining or end of a production run, its not unlikely to see start up and shut down issues surface like this (i.e. it may never have been coated in the first place)....

[billvon 2,400]

>we did have one hanging on a wall in our office subjected to constant direct sunlight. after about 8 months the bright
>white was noticable yellowed. interesting note we tested the fabric strength and it showed no difference from new.
That's not really a UV issue - window glass blocks 98% of UVB, the more energetic (and more damaging) UV. A good test would be to put a square of several different colors outside without any protection from the sun. I suspect dark colors will retain both their porosity and strength longer than the white colors, unless the white fabric has UV inhibitors in the mix somewhere.
-bill von

[Jimbo 0]

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unless the white fabric has UV inhibitors in the mix somewhere.

The idea of UV inhibitors is interesting. Are any of the manufactures of ZP fabric using something like this? Would it need to be imbedded into the fabric or only into the dye?
How many hours in the sun before a modern ZP canopy begins to become porous or weaken significantly?

[alan 1]

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The idea of UV inhibitors is interesting. Are any of the manufactures of ZP fabric using something like this?

DuPont Solar Max.

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Would it need to be imbedded into the fabric or only into the dye?

I believe it is in the filament.

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How many hours in the sun before a modern ZP canopy begins to become porous or weaken significantly?

Many factors can affect the life of canopy fabric in conjunction with exposure to sunlight. I've heard tell that PD has an old Sabre out there with something like 15,000 jumps on it. I'll bet you could easliy confirm/refute this with a quick e-mail to PD and get you an answer on the approximate rate at which nylon loses its strentgh and porosity when exposed to sunlight as well. Figure an average of 3 minutes of canopy ride per jump and equate that to exposure to sunlight, that is about 750 hours! Hard to believe! It is not too uncommon to see zero-p canopies in the field with 2000 jumps on them. That could be 100 hours. Packed indoors? Jumped in AZ or WI? Has it gotten wet? How many times? Packed on carpet? Was it kept pretty clean?
Page 499 of PPM has some interesting information, but it may be a little obsolete with respect to the fabrics used today but does not seem unreasonable to me. In part: Type I fabric, Outdoors, summer sun loses 52% of its braking strength after one week, 71% after 2 weeks, and 94% after 3 weeks. Based on the rest of the reading, I'm assuming that means 10 hour days.

alan

[cobaltdan 0]

hi bill,
it's a decent test: yes the windows attentenuate the uv itensity. only meaning exposure time needs to be increased. the area gets full unobstructed sunlight all day, and after a year the fabric even with the filtering of the single pane windows has taken more uv abuse that a normal canopy used in skydiving.
for kicks i will test the red in this canopy when i get the chance and let you know if it differs from the white.
sincerely,
dan
atair

[Jimbo 0]

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for kicks i will test the red in this canopy when i get the chance and let you know if it differs from the white.

I imagine you've got quite a bit of that ZP fabric laying around the office, why not, in the name of science, make a flag out of it and hang it outside for a season?

[cobaltdan 0]

ok.
-dan