0
swoopfly

travel visa workers

Recommended Posts

Just curious on thoughts on the massive influx over the summer of illegal workers who travel to the us under a travel visa and work under the table for dropzones. Taking away from the legal instructors. they also dont pay taxes since they are not reporting illegal wages. Is this right? we all seen it. Does USPA care or do they see it as not their problem as they may have the "rating", even tho they are illegally working? just curious on thoughts, i see it at every dz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In order for them to be "taking away" from legal workers, there needs to be an overabundance of legal workers. In my experiences, the pool of legal workers isn't necessarily that large and in many instances not that great (not that skilled, not that personable, not a hard worker, winey, bitchy, etc....)

I have worked with a lot of people from a lot of different countries and in general they are way more fun to work with because they are not working. They are skydiving. Whether doing fun jumps, tandems, AFF, or whatever, they are skydiving and are very happy to do so. Many of the 'mericans I've worked with suck because they aren't there to skydive, they are there to work. They bitch about having to jump. they bitch about not getting to jump. they bitch about bad weather. they bitch about good weather. They bitch when there is no work. they botch when there is too much work. In general, Many of the legal to work skydivers here aren't really doing it to skydive, they are doing it to work and have forgotten all about skydiving.

Maybe it's not an influx of foreigners coming to take away from the americans, but rather a bunch of hard working reliable skydivers coming over here to have fun and make some skydives. Maybe it's a bunch of DZO's that have been burned by douchey American drogue throwers that they would rather have decent reliable skydivers work for them instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would just say that those are all the same arguments farmers and chicken processors use to justify employing illegal workers. The real issue is "can I make a living working here?" If the answer is "no" then one of two things has to happen. Either the wage needs to increase, or foreign illegal workers are needed. Option B lowers everyone's wages throughout the whole industry. That is how labor markets work, and it's how some employers cheat.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tsalnukt

Maybe it's a bunch of DZO's that have been burned by douchey American drogue throwers that they would rather have decent reliable skydivers work for them instead.



Meh!

I have worked with awesome foreign instructors, and ones that were lacking.

I have also know great US instructors, and ones that were lacking.

I don't think you can generalize since every situation is going to have different actors with different motivations.

Back to the OP, this must be taking jumps from you on a personal level to being so bugged about it. So what is the deal?

Outside of a heart to heart with the boss man I fail to see how you can resolve this without burning bridges, being labeled as a saboteur, and causing fall out for all involved.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am less concerned about illegal workers taking work away from legal workers than I am about DZs violating the law, evading paying taxes and failing to report income on people they are employing. I know that this is not "unusual" or unique in skydiving but if the IRS chooses to look into the practice it could hurt the entire skydiving industry. Who really wants to answer questions from the IRS, even if you are doing everything above-board? Everyone has their own level of risk they are willing to take; I get that. I am personally not willing to risk a prosecution for tax evasion, money laundering, or violation of the immigration laws.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the original poster is willing to work long hours for low pay, with zero job security and no medical insurance, then " have atter big fella!"

Part of the problem is lazy North Americans, NA who are too lazy to raise enough children to replace their own generation, that's 2.2 children per woman of capable of child-bearing. If NA does replace its population, the NA economy stagnates.
Fortunately nature abhors a vacuum, labour-shortages are filled by immigrants. Whether those immigrants are legal is decided by gov't policy. Gov't policy is a complex debate between big business and big unions.
Picking on individual immigrants is cruel and only produces short-term results. Long-term results require producing more children or convincing gov't to issue more work visas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel like if you can't compete with these "illegal workers", there is something seriously wrong with you.

A job at a DZ is incredibly easy to get, you just gotta show up and show up and then show up some more.

There are 100s of work skydivers going in and out of industry like a revolving door. If you aren't getting a job, you might be just too picky. DZ.com classified shows bunch of immediate hiring ads.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stayhigh

How do you expect USPA to do anything about the illegals?

They can't even enforce the new tandem BSR. :D:D:D. People are still hooking on daily basis under tandem canopy.



I assume your comments are just intended to take a jab at USPA since the organization has nothing to do with immigration law or enforcement.

BTW, if you are witnessing TI's busting the new tandem BSR's or any other BSR busts and are concerned about it, why not voice your concerns to the S&TA and/or the Regional Director?

Not saying you are doing this but as I see it, if a person knows of true busts and talks crap about a lack of enforcement without reporting it, they are part pf the problem.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i just stir the pot just enough so someone else can snitch.

I voiced my opinion once, about your SnTA chairmen, Rich Windstock.
Since he gets to keep all the rating, while at the same time he gets to pull the rating from others.

USPA did absolutely nothing. Isn't he still the chair of SnTA? I lost all faith in USPA. So I say fuck USPA. What do USPA do anyways? Where did my $$s go?

Is this same guy? yup, Looks about the same guy http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/judge_again_refuses_to_allow_f.htmlIf he could resign for this, how come he can't step down from USPA? I mean the guy owns the DZ, it is not like USPA job is his only bread maker. Longer he stays on USPA board, longer he is going to embarrass himself. Just like longer I stay on DZ.com, I'm gonna make fool out of myself.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
might as well erase the chuckakers's post right above yours as well, since his post is not about the travel visa workers.

Chuckakers posted and and I replied to his words, "why not voice your concerns to the S&TA and/or the Regional Director?"

I have pointed out exact reason why I don't deal with USPA by explaining my past experience dealing with so called S&TA of yours.

waiting for you to just lock up this thread.

Your move...

I think it is a stalemate. :D
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chuckakers


I assume your comments are just intended to take a jab at USPA since the organization has nothing to do with immigration law or enforcement.



No, I was answering to the OP, who was wondering about the USPA's role in enforcing the immigration rules.

swoopfly's last question in his first post was, "Does USPA care or do they see it as not their problem as they may have the "rating", even tho they are illegally working? just curious on thoughts, i see it at every dz."

and I answered with whatever I said on one post mocking the organization's lack of power and the other post mocking its corruption within the committee.

Is it about time to lock the thread now? ;)
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So that's how it is,

If you want to keep everything on this thread only about the travel visa workers, then why not erase every irrelevant posts?

I was just answering to Chuckakers, as he asked me several questions in his post, " I assume your comments are just intended to take a jab at USPA since the organization has nothing to do with immigration law or enforcement. (statement#1 regarding my post)

BTW, if you are witnessing TI's busting the new tandem BSR's or any other BSR busts and are concerned about it, why not voice your concerns to the S&TA and/or the Regional Director? (question #1)

Not saying you are doing this but as I see it, if a person knows of true busts and talks crap about a lack of enforcement without reporting it, they are part of the problem. " (general statement)

Chuckaker's post is also irrelevant to travel visa workers and yet you, MR.Moderator, kept his post.

He asked me questions and I answered his questions, and yet his questions still remain on the thread and yet my answers keeps disappearing.

so I will answer again...

to answer Chuckakers statement #1
"I assume your comments are just intended to take a jab at USPA since the organization has nothing to do with immigration law or enforcement."

My answer to Chuckakers: I wasn't taking a jab at USPA, the poster #1 Swoopfly brought it up, with his question, " Does USPA care or do they see it as not their problem as they may have the "rating", even tho they are illegally working? just curious on thoughts, i see it at every dz?"
Since swoopfly brought up the USPA's authority, I said they can't even enforce their own rule. How are USPA going to enforce INS's rule.

and chuckakers's question #1

"BTW, if you are witnessing TI's busting the new tandem BSR's or any other BSR busts and are concerned about it, why not voice your concerns to the S&TA and/or the Regional Director?"

I answered it with my past experience dealing with the USPA.
.
If you are gonna erase it, erase chuck's post as well, since I end up looking like a retard for not being able to come back with the answers.

Tell me, Mr.Moderator, How can I answer his question while keeping the post relevant to travel visa workers?
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Tell me, Mr.Moderator, How can I answer his question while keeping the post relevant to travel visa workers?



The way you just did.

When I remove a post, I typically message the person directly to let them know why. You do not have messages on dz.com, so I could not communicate that to you, hence the one sided process.

Chuck's question was valid, your (above) response is valid, now let's keep back to the question of travel visa workers.
Namaste,
Tom Noonan

www.everest-skydive.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I could find reliable 'American' tandem instructors that showed up in the morning, did not look like they just crawled out of a cave, spoke comprehensible english to my customers and acted like professionals, then I would not ever need to look elsewhere.

but this is the industry we have and this is what we have to work with.

But seriously the very small handful of instructors I do have are great. I do not hire illegals because it is illegal. Instead I scale back my operation to what I can accommodate with the staff that I do have and that I can hire.

If I could could pay my TI's more, I would but with 22 dropzones in Florida, all chewing away at a small tandem market and then Groupon on top of that, there is a lot of pressure on downward prices. We stopped chasing the almighty tandem dollar a long time ago - it simply is no longer a significant part of the revenue stream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed with you for once :)

We have 100% American workers. Hard to come by, but we manage.

You are right. It is illegal to hire undocumented workers.

How to skydiving centers get away with it?

We are not planning on hiring them, all of our ads say "must be legal to work in the US".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OP's cry sounded like typical American who blames everything on Mexicans for lack of work opportunity.

Though out our history we call Mexicans in and invite them when necessary, and kick them out when our economy goes sour.

Like I said in earlier post, if you can't compete with the illegals at the dropzone, something has to be wrong with you.

From what I've seen, getting a job at a dz is one of the easiest, just show up day after day and you'll be on rotation.

How do skydiving centers get away with it?

some still pay cash under the table, that is how.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my .friend this was Not a cry of any sort I have many friends who are foreigners from all over the world really good friends this was more a question about law. you know USPA Claim to govern skydiving so I was curious about laws being broken . I find it funny that people keep referring to Americans as the only legal people. you can be from another country and legally work in the US just not with a travel visa. anyway I was just curious on legal aspects. not who works harder than another

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
USPA governs skydiving, in immigration law.
If someone has the proper ratings to do tandems in the U.S., that is USPA's only concern (and their only regulatory authority).
Any DZ willing to take on the liability of hiring undocumented workers is taking an enormous risk.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0