udder 0 #1 December 10, 2001 How often do tandem mals occur? they seem to happen an awful lot, and i thought they were safer than a single rig.......peder" I worship the beer and sky gods" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #2 December 10, 2001 I don't have any stats, but I'm pretty sure the malfunction rate is higher for tandems than normal (one person per parachute) jumps. The gear is a lot more complicated. More to go wrong.Quotei thought they were safer than a single rig.......Depends what you mean by 'safer' - I'm sure there aren't so many low-turns, low pulls, no pulls, canopy collisions, and general dumb-assed mistakes made with tandems.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 December 10, 2001 As a tandem skydive was explained to me by a Tandem Examiner......You start out inducing a Pilot chute in tow, while having a whuffo stealling all the clean air and leaving you in their burble. Follow that up with a rig with twice as many handles and 4 times as many possible mals, thats been packed by someone else in a hurry so you can get on the next load. The canopy probally has no less then 500-1000 jumps on it, flys totally different then a regular canopy, and has twice as many steering/flare lines. And this is if everything goes perfect!In all reality, each manufacter has its own technique for getting everything packed right and opening right. I've mis-stowed the brake lines on a Vector rig and induced a spinning mal/line over on a tandem I packed. At most DZ's there are way more tandem students then there are rigs. That means that in order for the DZ to make money the rigs have to be packed as fast as possible. Sometimes in the hurry, not as much care is taken on the rig and its easy to induce a line over.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 December 10, 2001 I heard 1:250, but I expect this can change a lot between DZ's. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #5 December 10, 2001 i don't know the stats either. but i will go from what my observations have been. i've seen 6 tandem cut-aways in the last 4 months, line twists account for 5, and a line-over for one. it's kinda funny in a way, the tandem level 1 students don't even know they've had there first reserve ride until they land.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 December 11, 2001 I heard of one tandem passenger who landed and said that the first THREE parachute failed. but luckily the FORTH one worked !!! 4 !! She must have been on about the drogue, then the main, then the reserve p/c + free bag, then the reserve itself. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #7 December 11, 2001 Fortunately, even though there are seemingly pretty frequent tandem mals, I heard Bill Booth say the other day that there hasn't been a tandem fatality in 3 years. Those are pretty good odds, considering how many tandems are done around the country.AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #8 December 11, 2001 I know of one tandem mal that happened at our DZ (line twists) and the TM told the kid what to do and then chopped it. They ended up landing in a park next to a soft ball game. The kid said he just loved it!!!. I guess it was kinda good for him he didnt really realise the seriousness of the whole deal!!Guess he got his $$$ worthjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #9 December 11, 2001 I had three mals on Strong mains (the old 520's) in quick succession back about four years ago. It was getting monotonous - every weekend we'd have at least one tandem mal. Finally we replaced the mains with SET-400's and the problem largely went away. They still seem to mal a little more often than sport gear though. As someone else mentioned, there's twice as much stuff to break, get stuck, get knotted up, lose etc.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 561 #10 December 12, 2001 I agree with bill, F-111 tandem canopies used to mal at a frightening rate! I have cutaway from 13 F-111 Strong mains and landed dozens of others with minor damage.SET 400s rarely mal. I have yet to cutaway from a SET 400.We are averaging about one cutaway per thousand tandems at Pitt Meadows. The last cutaway was caused by sloppy linestows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallnAngel 0 #11 December 13, 2001 I dont' know if this is technically considered a mal or not, but...on my 2nd jump (a tandem...I did the 3 tandems then aff route) I pulled the ripcord. Nothing. Still in freefall, I even looked at my hand to be sure I had actually pulled it. Had a moment longer to think "wow, the canopy seemed to open faster when I jumped with eric", then felt the TM moving around and then we were under the main. During debrief he just said that it was a total and that he pulled the other release. When I spoke to a JM I went through aff with he said that it was a fairly common problem. To this day, I'm still not sure what really happened, but I do know that it took me 6 weeks to work up the courage before doing the next level jump!Blue skies,Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #12 December 13, 2001 If your seeing mals such as blown out cells, broken lines, etc. it's the gear. I've seen some DZ's using really old gear and stuff like that happens a lot.....If Tandem JM's are cutting away from things like line overs or totals it's the packing....And if everyone's cutting away from simple line twists over and over, it's cause they're friends with the rigger and wanna give him some more work or there pulling the druoge release in a spin.....Over all though tandem rigs get jumped much more than your average rig and the people packing them sometimes are under pressure to get em ready for the next load and there a lot more complicated than your average rig too....I have only seen a few tandem mals at the DZ the past year. Usually packing stuff.Seb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #13 December 13, 2001 This was only one small dz... but we went for a year without a tandem cutaway, jumping Vector 421's, a 500 and an EZ384. Don't know if it was careful attention to packing or if we were just lucky.... I was glad that my 114 tandem jumps were all cutaway free, though!pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GroundZero 0 #14 January 3, 2002 I'd agree...my stats: 5000 jumps;4200 non-tandem, 800 tandemmals: 0 non-tandem, 3 tandemweird-shit: 2packing induced: 1 (but she was a looker! i had to hurry!)I'm rated in Strong, Vector and Eclipse, none apears more function-prone than another. It's Tandem..."it ain't just another skydive!"Remember, you're jumping for 2... Be careful, be prepared,etc. Have fun and GIVE FUN!Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #15 January 3, 2002 my stats;- 8100., 5000 tandems14 chops, all tandem,but in retrospect,probably 8 of them i could of cleared ,or landed ,(all tension knots). i know i really enjoyed chopping,but got older and saner since.had 1 chop in last 3000 tandems ,and that was a spread maillon link after a hard opening.i don't believe it's the packers fault ...ever,(unless it's something misrouted,and then the tm should pick it up in the check.) if you don't thoroughly check your gear before every jump (tandem) you are a wanker,and asking for shit to happen.just my thoughts.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #16 January 3, 2002 Quoteif you don't thoroughly check your gear before every jump (tandem) you are a wanker,and asking for shit to happen.LMFAO (BTW 3100 sport jumps and not one mal? pretty impressive!)/s"this is your life and its ending one minute at a time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 January 4, 2002 I barely do enough tandems to stay current right now, but I used to be fairly busy and have never chopped one in the three years I have had my rating. Some observations:the current equipment, especially tandem mains, is MUCH nicer than the old F-111 crap. It all lasts longer and definitly flies and lands better.As far as packing goes, I NEVER pro pack tandems and will not jump one that has been packed in other than a stack or roll pack. This is simple for me since I have only once ever jumped a tandem that I did not pack. I am fantatical about proper drogue rigging and gear inspection. The one time I jumped a pre-packed tandem, I found the drogue attachment to be inproperly assembled (it was reversed). I had a fucking shit fit and let the training vendor know in no uncertain terms what I thought about non-FAA rigger packers. The people I know with the most reserve rides are those who allow themselves to be managed in such a manner as to waive safety and common sense. I am not impressed when I visit busy DZ's and see TM's running barefoot to the loading area with an uninspected rig over his shoulder in a race to catch the next plane. Ten tandems in a day might be your style, but I don't want anything to do with any more than five or six (with me packing).ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #18 January 4, 2002 "I NEVER pro pack tandems"Hmmm...I don't think I have seen anyone do anything other than that in the past year or so....Why this opinion?"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #19 January 4, 2002 skymonkey,i agree with all your thoughts, except the anti pro pack one.i've packed my last 3000 myself ,all pro pack,and only 1 hard opening and subsequent chop. also 1 of my co-workers has flat packed his last 4000 with no chops,as i said before ,packing is not a real issue with most new model canopies these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #20 January 4, 2002 Right on ,Des. What I was referring to is the inordinant amount of lineover tandem malfuntions that some of these DZ's have, ALL as a result of sloppy PRO packing. There is a point, in my opinion, where you are not gaining anything at all by hoisting the thing up in the air high enough to pack like that. Personally, I will not PRO pack a canopy larger than a 135; it's just too much hassle. Actually, that's a lie; I PRO packed my Excallibur 150 since it had no packing tabs.Also: I am proud to hear that you pack your own tandems. We both appear to be in the minority.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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rgoper 0 #5 December 10, 2001 i don't know the stats either. but i will go from what my observations have been. i've seen 6 tandem cut-aways in the last 4 months, line twists account for 5, and a line-over for one. it's kinda funny in a way, the tandem level 1 students don't even know they've had there first reserve ride until they land.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 December 11, 2001 I heard of one tandem passenger who landed and said that the first THREE parachute failed. but luckily the FORTH one worked !!! 4 !! She must have been on about the drogue, then the main, then the reserve p/c + free bag, then the reserve itself. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #7 December 11, 2001 Fortunately, even though there are seemingly pretty frequent tandem mals, I heard Bill Booth say the other day that there hasn't been a tandem fatality in 3 years. Those are pretty good odds, considering how many tandems are done around the country.AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #8 December 11, 2001 I know of one tandem mal that happened at our DZ (line twists) and the TM told the kid what to do and then chopped it. They ended up landing in a park next to a soft ball game. The kid said he just loved it!!!. I guess it was kinda good for him he didnt really realise the seriousness of the whole deal!!Guess he got his $$$ worthjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #9 December 11, 2001 I had three mals on Strong mains (the old 520's) in quick succession back about four years ago. It was getting monotonous - every weekend we'd have at least one tandem mal. Finally we replaced the mains with SET-400's and the problem largely went away. They still seem to mal a little more often than sport gear though. As someone else mentioned, there's twice as much stuff to break, get stuck, get knotted up, lose etc.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 561 #10 December 12, 2001 I agree with bill, F-111 tandem canopies used to mal at a frightening rate! I have cutaway from 13 F-111 Strong mains and landed dozens of others with minor damage.SET 400s rarely mal. I have yet to cutaway from a SET 400.We are averaging about one cutaway per thousand tandems at Pitt Meadows. The last cutaway was caused by sloppy linestows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallnAngel 0 #11 December 13, 2001 I dont' know if this is technically considered a mal or not, but...on my 2nd jump (a tandem...I did the 3 tandems then aff route) I pulled the ripcord. Nothing. Still in freefall, I even looked at my hand to be sure I had actually pulled it. Had a moment longer to think "wow, the canopy seemed to open faster when I jumped with eric", then felt the TM moving around and then we were under the main. During debrief he just said that it was a total and that he pulled the other release. When I spoke to a JM I went through aff with he said that it was a fairly common problem. To this day, I'm still not sure what really happened, but I do know that it took me 6 weeks to work up the courage before doing the next level jump!Blue skies,Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #12 December 13, 2001 If your seeing mals such as blown out cells, broken lines, etc. it's the gear. I've seen some DZ's using really old gear and stuff like that happens a lot.....If Tandem JM's are cutting away from things like line overs or totals it's the packing....And if everyone's cutting away from simple line twists over and over, it's cause they're friends with the rigger and wanna give him some more work or there pulling the druoge release in a spin.....Over all though tandem rigs get jumped much more than your average rig and the people packing them sometimes are under pressure to get em ready for the next load and there a lot more complicated than your average rig too....I have only seen a few tandem mals at the DZ the past year. Usually packing stuff.Seb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #13 December 13, 2001 This was only one small dz... but we went for a year without a tandem cutaway, jumping Vector 421's, a 500 and an EZ384. Don't know if it was careful attention to packing or if we were just lucky.... I was glad that my 114 tandem jumps were all cutaway free, though!pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GroundZero 0 #14 January 3, 2002 I'd agree...my stats: 5000 jumps;4200 non-tandem, 800 tandemmals: 0 non-tandem, 3 tandemweird-shit: 2packing induced: 1 (but she was a looker! i had to hurry!)I'm rated in Strong, Vector and Eclipse, none apears more function-prone than another. It's Tandem..."it ain't just another skydive!"Remember, you're jumping for 2... Be careful, be prepared,etc. Have fun and GIVE FUN!Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #15 January 3, 2002 my stats;- 8100., 5000 tandems14 chops, all tandem,but in retrospect,probably 8 of them i could of cleared ,or landed ,(all tension knots). i know i really enjoyed chopping,but got older and saner since.had 1 chop in last 3000 tandems ,and that was a spread maillon link after a hard opening.i don't believe it's the packers fault ...ever,(unless it's something misrouted,and then the tm should pick it up in the check.) if you don't thoroughly check your gear before every jump (tandem) you are a wanker,and asking for shit to happen.just my thoughts.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #16 January 3, 2002 Quoteif you don't thoroughly check your gear before every jump (tandem) you are a wanker,and asking for shit to happen.LMFAO (BTW 3100 sport jumps and not one mal? pretty impressive!)/s"this is your life and its ending one minute at a time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 January 4, 2002 I barely do enough tandems to stay current right now, but I used to be fairly busy and have never chopped one in the three years I have had my rating. Some observations:the current equipment, especially tandem mains, is MUCH nicer than the old F-111 crap. It all lasts longer and definitly flies and lands better.As far as packing goes, I NEVER pro pack tandems and will not jump one that has been packed in other than a stack or roll pack. This is simple for me since I have only once ever jumped a tandem that I did not pack. I am fantatical about proper drogue rigging and gear inspection. The one time I jumped a pre-packed tandem, I found the drogue attachment to be inproperly assembled (it was reversed). I had a fucking shit fit and let the training vendor know in no uncertain terms what I thought about non-FAA rigger packers. The people I know with the most reserve rides are those who allow themselves to be managed in such a manner as to waive safety and common sense. I am not impressed when I visit busy DZ's and see TM's running barefoot to the loading area with an uninspected rig over his shoulder in a race to catch the next plane. Ten tandems in a day might be your style, but I don't want anything to do with any more than five or six (with me packing).ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #18 January 4, 2002 "I NEVER pro pack tandems"Hmmm...I don't think I have seen anyone do anything other than that in the past year or so....Why this opinion?"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites des 2 #19 January 4, 2002 skymonkey,i agree with all your thoughts, except the anti pro pack one.i've packed my last 3000 myself ,all pro pack,and only 1 hard opening and subsequent chop. also 1 of my co-workers has flat packed his last 4000 with no chops,as i said before ,packing is not a real issue with most new model canopies these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #20 January 4, 2002 Right on ,Des. What I was referring to is the inordinant amount of lineover tandem malfuntions that some of these DZ's have, ALL as a result of sloppy PRO packing. There is a point, in my opinion, where you are not gaining anything at all by hoisting the thing up in the air high enough to pack like that. Personally, I will not PRO pack a canopy larger than a 135; it's just too much hassle. Actually, that's a lie; I PRO packed my Excallibur 150 since it had no packing tabs.Also: I am proud to hear that you pack your own tandems. We both appear to be in the minority.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skymama 35 #7 December 11, 2001 Fortunately, even though there are seemingly pretty frequent tandem mals, I heard Bill Booth say the other day that there hasn't been a tandem fatality in 3 years. Those are pretty good odds, considering how many tandems are done around the country.AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #8 December 11, 2001 I know of one tandem mal that happened at our DZ (line twists) and the TM told the kid what to do and then chopped it. They ended up landing in a park next to a soft ball game. The kid said he just loved it!!!. I guess it was kinda good for him he didnt really realise the seriousness of the whole deal!!Guess he got his $$$ worthjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #9 December 11, 2001 I had three mals on Strong mains (the old 520's) in quick succession back about four years ago. It was getting monotonous - every weekend we'd have at least one tandem mal. Finally we replaced the mains with SET-400's and the problem largely went away. They still seem to mal a little more often than sport gear though. As someone else mentioned, there's twice as much stuff to break, get stuck, get knotted up, lose etc.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #10 December 12, 2001 I agree with bill, F-111 tandem canopies used to mal at a frightening rate! I have cutaway from 13 F-111 Strong mains and landed dozens of others with minor damage.SET 400s rarely mal. I have yet to cutaway from a SET 400.We are averaging about one cutaway per thousand tandems at Pitt Meadows. The last cutaway was caused by sloppy linestows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallnAngel 0 #11 December 13, 2001 I dont' know if this is technically considered a mal or not, but...on my 2nd jump (a tandem...I did the 3 tandems then aff route) I pulled the ripcord. Nothing. Still in freefall, I even looked at my hand to be sure I had actually pulled it. Had a moment longer to think "wow, the canopy seemed to open faster when I jumped with eric", then felt the TM moving around and then we were under the main. During debrief he just said that it was a total and that he pulled the other release. When I spoke to a JM I went through aff with he said that it was a fairly common problem. To this day, I'm still not sure what really happened, but I do know that it took me 6 weeks to work up the courage before doing the next level jump!Blue skies,Karen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #12 December 13, 2001 If your seeing mals such as blown out cells, broken lines, etc. it's the gear. I've seen some DZ's using really old gear and stuff like that happens a lot.....If Tandem JM's are cutting away from things like line overs or totals it's the packing....And if everyone's cutting away from simple line twists over and over, it's cause they're friends with the rigger and wanna give him some more work or there pulling the druoge release in a spin.....Over all though tandem rigs get jumped much more than your average rig and the people packing them sometimes are under pressure to get em ready for the next load and there a lot more complicated than your average rig too....I have only seen a few tandem mals at the DZ the past year. Usually packing stuff.Seb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #13 December 13, 2001 This was only one small dz... but we went for a year without a tandem cutaway, jumping Vector 421's, a 500 and an EZ384. Don't know if it was careful attention to packing or if we were just lucky.... I was glad that my 114 tandem jumps were all cutaway free, though!pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #14 January 3, 2002 I'd agree...my stats: 5000 jumps;4200 non-tandem, 800 tandemmals: 0 non-tandem, 3 tandemweird-shit: 2packing induced: 1 (but she was a looker! i had to hurry!)I'm rated in Strong, Vector and Eclipse, none apears more function-prone than another. It's Tandem..."it ain't just another skydive!"Remember, you're jumping for 2... Be careful, be prepared,etc. Have fun and GIVE FUN!Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #15 January 3, 2002 my stats;- 8100., 5000 tandems14 chops, all tandem,but in retrospect,probably 8 of them i could of cleared ,or landed ,(all tension knots). i know i really enjoyed chopping,but got older and saner since.had 1 chop in last 3000 tandems ,and that was a spread maillon link after a hard opening.i don't believe it's the packers fault ...ever,(unless it's something misrouted,and then the tm should pick it up in the check.) if you don't thoroughly check your gear before every jump (tandem) you are a wanker,and asking for shit to happen.just my thoughts.des Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #16 January 3, 2002 Quoteif you don't thoroughly check your gear before every jump (tandem) you are a wanker,and asking for shit to happen.LMFAO (BTW 3100 sport jumps and not one mal? pretty impressive!)/s"this is your life and its ending one minute at a time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 January 4, 2002 I barely do enough tandems to stay current right now, but I used to be fairly busy and have never chopped one in the three years I have had my rating. Some observations:the current equipment, especially tandem mains, is MUCH nicer than the old F-111 crap. It all lasts longer and definitly flies and lands better.As far as packing goes, I NEVER pro pack tandems and will not jump one that has been packed in other than a stack or roll pack. This is simple for me since I have only once ever jumped a tandem that I did not pack. I am fantatical about proper drogue rigging and gear inspection. The one time I jumped a pre-packed tandem, I found the drogue attachment to be inproperly assembled (it was reversed). I had a fucking shit fit and let the training vendor know in no uncertain terms what I thought about non-FAA rigger packers. The people I know with the most reserve rides are those who allow themselves to be managed in such a manner as to waive safety and common sense. I am not impressed when I visit busy DZ's and see TM's running barefoot to the loading area with an uninspected rig over his shoulder in a race to catch the next plane. Ten tandems in a day might be your style, but I don't want anything to do with any more than five or six (with me packing).ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #18 January 4, 2002 "I NEVER pro pack tandems"Hmmm...I don't think I have seen anyone do anything other than that in the past year or so....Why this opinion?"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
des 2 #19 January 4, 2002 skymonkey,i agree with all your thoughts, except the anti pro pack one.i've packed my last 3000 myself ,all pro pack,and only 1 hard opening and subsequent chop. also 1 of my co-workers has flat packed his last 4000 with no chops,as i said before ,packing is not a real issue with most new model canopies these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #20 January 4, 2002 Right on ,Des. What I was referring to is the inordinant amount of lineover tandem malfuntions that some of these DZ's have, ALL as a result of sloppy PRO packing. There is a point, in my opinion, where you are not gaining anything at all by hoisting the thing up in the air high enough to pack like that. Personally, I will not PRO pack a canopy larger than a 135; it's just too much hassle. Actually, that's a lie; I PRO packed my Excallibur 150 since it had no packing tabs.Also: I am proud to hear that you pack your own tandems. We both appear to be in the minority.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
