Tandem/AFF Question

[Skolls081102 0]

If this is posted in the wrong Forum, I apologize now.
For anyone who doesn't know me, my name is Mike. I'm looking to get into skydiving. But I have a question for the Instructors out there, in regards to Tandem and AFF.
The DZ that I am interested in using for my training, requires 3 tandem jumps before you begin with your AFF training. I have heard from people on this site, that they started with the AFF jumps. I am wondering if most DZ's require Tandems as a first step, or if there are DZ's that will start you off on the AFF program. And, if you work for a DZ that specifies tandems first, have you ever made exceptions and started a student out on AFF (and what were the reasons you did so).
For a little more backround- the reason I haven't (can't) jump yet, is that I am overweight. I weigh 292- max ground weight for the DZ is 250. I understand that this has to do with the Tandem rig weight limits. I would assume, that if I started on AFF, the weight wouldn't be as big an issue, bing that I would be able to find gear to support my weight.
Any info and help in this matter is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Mike

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[BIGUN 1,105]

We've had this discussion. Bring your butt down to Oklahoma for a week and we'll get you through all AFF levels. We have military HALO rigs out the butt and Instructors who'll have no problems hanging with you. Unless you weigh over 340 lbs, no worrries, mate.

Let's do it.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[freeflygirlz 0]

HI!
I have never heard before, that DZs require three tandems!! To me this sounds just like making cash. Just my opinion.
We _recommend_ 1 Tandem before starting AFF Level 1. This is, to let the student get freefall feeling with less stress level, than on his first aff. He / she can work on canopy skills together with the TI.
We have had students without any tandems prior the aff-programm, due to weight limits (which is approximately 200 lbs on our dz for tandems). They we as good as the students with 1 or more tandems before.

[Kimblair13 0]

Hey,
I'm almost certain 3 tandems is not required, but helpful. I know it's a cheaper route to do 3 tandems then start with AFF at our DZ. Personally, I think you should do at least 1 tandem before going solo. Alot of people that think they would be fine end up freaking out, which would not be a good thing to do when your alone. Me myself did T-1, T-2, T-3, AFF 4,5,6,7,8.

[feuergnom 22]

to me this sounds like your favorite dz is doing tandem progression i.e. 3 tandems then the 4 IAF jumps.
if not, and they are just after your cash - go find another one

either way - good luck and soft landings

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[jgarango 0]

Agree with feuergnom,

Check to see if after the 3 tandems you are still required to go through the full AFF program or if it is just the part with just one instructor doing the harness hold (last 5 levels).

If you have to do 3 tandems and the full AFF, you should find another DZ. They're after your money.

There is no USPA requirements for tandems before AFF.

Good luck,

Juan

[Skolls081102 0]

The DZ does a tandem progression. It's 2 tandems, ground school, a third tandem, then 7 AFF jumps. Since everyone keeps bringing up money- the total for all 10 jumps (if I dont have to repeat a level, and if I pay cash in advance) is $1734 plus gear rental. This also includes one free jump after the progression is over. Would that be considered alot?

In some sense, I think I would rather do a tandem first (for the possibility of me freaking out on the way down). But I really want to get into this sport, and having to wait till I make it to 250 is gonna take awhile.

Hey Bigun- feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss this here- but which DZ are you at, and how much is the training there? I doubt I'd be able to talk my wife into coming to Oklahoma with me (and I'm sure she'd be pissed if I left her at home with the baby) but hey, you never know...

And again, thank you all for the advice. I find it refreshing that people in this sport are willing to help out the newbies. I trully appreciate all your help.

Mike

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[tdog 0]

What is the weight limit for AFF at your DZ??? That may be an issue even if you were not gonna do tandems.

For an example, Perris has a 245 lb rule... My home DZ - being higher altitude (wing loading on landing concerns) is even lower.

[NSEMN8R 0]

Quote

$1734 plus gear rental.

That sounds pretty high. How much is gear rental?

Here, we also put them through 7 levels of AFP jumps after 3 tandems, but the total including the tandems is $1236. And that includes gear.


I'd shop around...


Good luck with it.

[Ron 7]

They are doing AFP...A program that uses Tandem as Instructional levels.

It is a good program in most cases since the student gets three jumps of really hands on instruction. It really helps with canopy control.

I think ALL students should do a Tandem first. It is more cost effective and does tons of good.

That being said, it is your money and your life. A Tandem is not *required* by the USPA. So any DZ that does harness hold jumps can do AFF levels 1-3 to replace those tandems. For that matter SL can be used.

If that DZ refuses to start you on AFF...Find a DZ that will.

But I really do like the idea of a tandem first.

Skydive City where I teach will take big boys....In fact we had a guy so big he had a custom rig made for him to do the program.

SDC www.skydivecity.com

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Since everyone keeps bringing up money- the total for all 10 jumps (if I dont have to repeat a level, and if I pay cash in advance) is $1734 plus gear rental. This also includes one free jump after the progression is over. Would that be considered alot?

If the 1734 doesn't include gear rental then yeah it's a lot. If SDC takes big guys up(and they have the gear) you could probably take the wife and kids to Orlando and do AFF on close to the same budget.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

It's 2 tandems, ground school, a third tandem, then 7 AFF jumps. Since everyone keeps bringing up money- the total for all 10 jumps (if I dont have to repeat a level, and if I pay cash in advance) is $1734 plus gear rental. This also includes one free jump after the progression is over. Would that be considered alot?

Yes, that is alot. You could get 3 tandems, 14 jumps 1 on 1 with an instructor, a free hop and pop, video on each AFP jump, gear rental included elsewhere for that price.

Derek

[bodypilot1 0]

IMO, $1734 plus gear rental is WAY too much.




Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Skolls081102 0]

Quote

What is the weight limit for AFF at your DZ??? That may be an issue even if you were not gonna do tandems.

For an example, Perris has a 245 lb rule... My home DZ - being higher altitude (wing loading on landing concerns) is even lower.

Got an email from them today- apparently its 250 no matter what. So, apparently they don;t have gear for the bigger folks. I'm gonna shoot out a few more emails tomorrow to the other local DZ's to see what their limits are.

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[GQ_jumper 4]

i'm not sure who makes it but i know there is a company that makes harness/container system for heavier jumpers. it's been mentioned in this forum before maybe someone here can post a link for you

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[riggerrob 561]

Quote

i'm not sure who makes it but i know there is a company that makes harness/container system for heavier jumpers. it's been mentioned in this forum before maybe someone here can post a link for you

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some older designs (i.e. Racer and Vector) are still made under TSO-C23B Standard Category which has no upper weight limit. A few schools even use modified tandem gear for students in the 250-300 pound range.
Also TSO-C23D allows manufacturers (Wings, Javelin and Reflex) the option of certifying gear to heavier weights and faster airspeeds than minimums (254 pounds at 150 knots).
So you can find gear that is legal to jump at heavier weights, the difficulty is finding a school that is willing to teach you. Most schools do not want the risk of injuring big students, because the majority of 220 plus students are flabby.
Judging by your photo, you are extremely muscular, so fitness is not an issue.

[Skolls081102 0]

Quote

Judging by your photo, you are extremely muscular, so fitness is not an issue.

Well, not really. I carry most of it in my stomach area. My legs are pretty muscular, my arms, not so much. Everyone that sees me says that I look like I weigh less than I do. Not that that means much.
I'm talking to Bigun about going out to Oklahoma to train there. They have rigs that will support the weight, and instructors that can keep up with me (I'm assuming I might fall faster than normal???)
Anyway, one of the problems is, I have to find a DZ up here that will have rental gear big enough for me.
After paying for training, I wont have enough to pay for gear right away.
Question for you all- from one of the posts, I get the idea that alot of manufacturers dont make gear for big people. Is that the case? I know its a ways off (and I do plan on losing weight regardless) but I was looking at Mirage and Aerodyne. Am I going to have difficulty getting gear for my size?
Thanks again to everyone. You all have been a great help.

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Am I going to have difficulty getting gear for my size?

I know Relative Workshop has done it...Basicly a tandem set up for solo.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Skolls081102 0]

I started emailig people yesterday to see what I could come up with. Aerodyne says that they have gear for me (its basically the military rigs they have). Mirage says they can do it to, and I've also looked at Relative Workshop.
So it looks like I can get gear at my current weight- but at over $1200 for AFF, and then a few hundred more for coach jumps to get to my A, then a few thousand for gear? I think I need to lose weight so I can rent gear for awhile. Trust me-I'm one of those people that likes to have brand new, all their own stuff- I just dont see being able to pay for all my training and then drop a few grand on new gear.
I wonder how many gear manufacturers do financing...hmmmmm

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[wardhessig 0]

Just want to answer your last sentence in this post. One manufacturer does financing.......MIRAGE. No payments and no interest for a year. With a 4 week delivery, just food for thought.