Safety, #1 priority?

[scottbre 0]

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OVERALL., you have a better chance dying of lightning than skydiving. OR a car accident.

There is a whole industry/science that says your wrong. It's called Insurance/Actuarial. There is reason why you have to pay significantly more for life insurance if you are an extreme sport participant. That is because you are more likely to die participating in said extreme sports than you are doing other everyday activities, such as driving a car.
That's all these people do. They figure out percentages on what is likely to cause a person's death and how likely that it.
Just because more people die in car accidents than skydiving accidents, doesn't mean that skydiving is safer. It just means that there are a geometrically larger number of people who drive cars, than skydive. If you don't skydive, then yea your chances of dying in a car accident are higher than your chances of dying in a skydiving accident. But those chances are the same chances of dying in a car accident as they are for a skydiver who drives a car. It's just that the chance of the skydiver dying in a skydiving accident are much higher, because they skydive.
"Let the rabbits wear glasses. . . "

[MarkM 0]

Think the link showed a 22 per 100k licensed driver fatality rate, but that also included pedestrian kills, etc. Remove that and you're down to 18 per 100k or so, I don't know.
In the US we average 30 skydiving fatalities a year? How many total skydivers jump each year?
But then also figure how many hours of driving each year does the average driver do compared to the "hours" of skydiving an average skydiver does. Per minute, skydiving is going to be way more dangerous.
But it's all kind of stupid. You can make numbers say anything you want.

[rhino 0]

Yeagh.. They say Men are more likely to get into a car accident also.. That is HIGHLY inaccurate..
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[scottbre 0]

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You can make numbers say anything you want.

Yep. 54% of all people know that. "Let the rabbits wear glasses. . . "

[rhino 0]

lol
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[scottbre 0]

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Yeagh.. They say Men are more likely to get into a car accident also.. That is HIGHLY inaccurate..

Other than your personal opinion, I don't know how you could possibly provide a better source for that comment, than all the research that the insurance industry does that says differently.
"Let the rabbits wear glasses. . . "

[PhreeZone 15]

Rhino... fact of the matter is the sport is downright dangerous compaired to something like table tennis.
Your logic on how you are saying driving is more dangerous then skydiving is flawed logic to say the least. Most drivers have hunderds of hours driving before they get killed or seriously injured. Most skydivers never get more then 50 hours or so of jumping in their life times. On a per second basis alone the risk of dying while skydiving is on the order of multitudes higher.
As for needing more new people to the sport, I'm going to have to disagree... more people means more injuries, more injuries leads to more lawsuits, more lawsuits leads to higher prices, higher prices leads to less DZ's.... Don't think it could happen? Why does a new Cesnna cost $70,000 when there is only $18000 worth of parts in it? The have to make money to save for the lawsuits because people die in them every year. More pilots equals more lawsuits.....
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[skybytch 259]

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People should quit harping on how "dangerous" skydiving is and harp more on how fun it is.

Yeah you're right. We really should tell people that it's totally safe to jump out of airplanes as long as you don't fuck up. Then we can bring more and more people who won't take responsibility for their own actions into the sport and have lots of mad mothers and lawyers get involved to try to limit or stop skydiving completely when those who won't take responsibility for thier own actions and choices get hurt or die because a) they fucked up or b) they did everything right and they still died or got hurt.
I give up. You're all right, I'm wrong.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[scottbre 0]

*Grabs a knife and cuts himself a piece of that sarcasm.*

"Let the rabbits wear glasses. . . "

[rhino 0]

I don't know.. I've seen a table tennis ball do some SERIOUS damage to an eyeball!!!
I suppose it is all relative.. Do you feel more comfortable on a busy highway or skydiving??
Me. Personally.. I feel more comfortable getting out of the door of that plane than on a busy highway with a bunch of idiots. Skydivers will damn near die for you.. Drivers on the highway will kill your ass for driving slow... All things considered.. Skydiving isn't THAT damned dangerous.. Sure if you make bad decisions it becomes more dangerous than sticking your head in a bucket of water three times and taking it out twice. Call the new people TANDEMS if you will .. That makes money for the DZ, Tandem Masters, and Camera flyers. That is a good thing no matter how you look at it.. And I am sure and DZ owner would prefer an additional 10 regular jumpers every weekend. Driving is more dangerous.. On the highway I am more likely to get killed by someone else.. In the air it will MOST LIKELY be a bad decision that I made or a bad position I PUT MYSELF in.. Every now and then "like a heart attack" people die not having made a bad decision at all. In my STEADFAST opinion driving on the highway is more dangerous than skydiving "when using your head properly". The risks in skydiving I choose to take.. The risks on the road WE HAVE to take. I hope someone understands where in the hell I am coming from.. Skydiving can be very safe. And I believe all things considered it is.. "good decisions pending"
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[PhreeZone 15]

the difference between a good decision and a bad decision can usually be summed un by..."Oh shit....".
I know some DZO's would perfer to have that one time tandem show up, enjoy thier roller coster ride and go home safe and content never to do another jump. Experienced jumpers cost money to keep, they don't make money and they cause the most problems, why would you want them? As soon as someone see's there is money to be made doing something (Video Flying, Instructing) then everyone wants to get on board and get thier portion of the pie. Real instructors do it for free and never give it a second thought....
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[scottbre 0]

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isn't THAT damned dangerous..

You are entitled to your opinion, but I doubt you are going to convince others to see it your way. In skydiving you are putting yourself in a life threatening position EVERY time you do it. Not so with driving. Both can be dangerous, but there is much more of an immediate threat of death in skydiving, and that makes it more dangerous than driving a car.
You can drive a car 5 mph, you can't go much slower that 120 mph (in most cases) skydiving.
All that said, yea skydiving is great fun. But to have that fun, you have to be willing to accept the risks that come with it. "Let the rabbits wear glasses. . . "

[MarcusV 0]

Skydiving is safe. Meanwhile. Because we have to think such a lot about safety in this sport. That's why there are chief instructors. So there are s&ta's. So we have a safety & training forum. And much more. To make skydiving safe.
Fortunately not all skydivers think and have thought the way you do. Ask yourself why you can be so safe now.
If skydiving weren't dangerous - why should one think about safety... why should safety be an attitude... towards what...
But what do I say. Sorry dude. You are the pro, man. You have the knowledge. You have the experience. Future skydivers must be glad you write down your thoughts for them and eternity...
Blues Marcus
--
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[rhino 0]

I follow Derek's train of thought here.. This is from another post.
"It is difficult to believe that I have to get hurt or killed skydiving. I was much more likely to get injured when I was a full time instructor because i couldn't pick my days and had to do Tandems to pay the bills. Now, if I am tired, recovering from a cold, the weather isn't good, I can sit on the ground. I can call the shots. I know skydiving is a risk, and that knowledge helps keep me safe. I don't let my guard down. I maintain my gear w/ a vengance. I conciencesly and continually observe conditions and risk factors and make good judgement calls based on experience and common sense. I beleive that as long as I continue this vigilance I have a very small chance of being injured or killed skydiving. Flying in airplanes is not considered dangerous, but take a look at the NTSB's web site. There are 3-10 incidents/crashes everyday, mostly due to pilot error ( this catagory encompasses a lot of things like flying into weather they shouldn't have= bad decisions)or mistakes in maintenance. rarely does big airliner crash, because the pilots and crew are very well trained, fly well maintained aircraft, excersice good judgement (helped in part by company policy, and hindered by company policy in some cases, i'm sure) and plan their flight in detail, taking into account contigencies. is flying dangerous? It can be, if you do not do the things necessary to keep it safe. I believe it is the same thing in skydiving. Most of the little accidents I've seen, the jumper did not do at leat one of the 4 things that can make skydiving safe: pre-planning, good judgement, proper equipment, and special Training."
Again.. I agree with Derek.
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[rhino 0]

The danger is relative. You still don't get it.. At no time did I say safety was not important..
I stick to my guns on this one.. You are allowed to disagree..
Rhino
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[MarkM 0]

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Again.. I agree with Derek.

Yeah, good post.

[Strynx 0]

I totally agree with you on this one Diver.
ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING!
for the debate now:
But.... As Lisa said you can still have a good attitude and get Injured/killed. I think it would fall under "Murphy's Law" still skydiving is DANGEROUS but SAFE (in my opinion) let xplain my chain of toughts. Danger (the way i interpret it) is based on statistic and numbers Safety is a chain of actions/toughts leading to "better" practice of activities involving a greater percentage of Danger. Is skydiving Dangerous? you Bet.... Is it Safe? " It depends on your chain of Action/toughts.
P.L.U.R.

[rhino 0]

That's one way to say it I guess :) lol
It's all relative.. It is risky but it doesn't have to be dangerous. lol
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[billvon 2,406]

>OVERALL., you have a better chance dying of lightning than skydiving. OR a car accident. PROVIDING you make good decisions and are "safe".
Just ain't true. Skydiving is a lot more likely to kill you than driving or walking outside. Of course, paying attention to safety is going to greatly increase your odds of survival, but that's true of everyone - if you're "being safe" you won't be playing golf just before the storm rolls in either.
I did a statistical study a ways back comparing NTSB stats to experienced skydiver statistics. Based on the assumptions I made (4 jumps a day, 20 mile drive) you're between 10 and 40 times more likely to get killed skydiving than driving. Based on my personal experiences, the number of people I've known who died skydiving vs driving, that number is pretty accurate (4 friends dead from skydiving, no skydiving friends dead from driving.)
So unless you make it a habit to drink before you drive all the time, there's a good reason you have to be more careful in the air. It's a lot more likely to kill you.
-bill von

[rhino 0]

Bla, bla, bla here we go again...
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[mountainman 0]

Think about it......everytime you make a skydive, you have to save your own life everytime. There is nothing else that isn't dangerous where you have to save your own life. "Nuff said. Skydiving is dangerous.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[rhino 0]

lol, if you say so..
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[Vallerina 2]

The only problem with those stats is that it's not much of a breakdown of gender, age, location, and all that stuff. My own personal evaluation that I did at work this summer (using Allstate's data, which I don't really have anymore since they don't like you taking their information from them!) was that since I was young, single and driving in downtown Chicago everyday, my chances of a fatality from driving are greater than the average person's chances from skydiving.
But, I agree that everyone assuming that skydiving is safer is false (especially driving to the dz; most people don't have to drive through the middle of a city to get to their dz.) Although, I don't really think it's possible to compare them.
If you ask my dad, however, he'd tell ya that nobody should be skydiving or driving downtown! No fun!
Drink 'Em Cute

[rhino 0]

You still look pretty young!! lol
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[base698 1]

Val:
I saw your first cutaway that was definitly more dangerous than driving :)
On another note. It seems like people aren't taking economics into consideration here. In other words while skydiving people take very few risks relative to driving. Ie when have you been drunk skydiving, eaten lunch, changed the radio station, or just down right not paid attention? In driving because of the relative safety of it they have more incentive to take extra risks. It does of course end in deaths but not near as much per capita as all the people who can't learn to do flat turns.