Jumping Para-Commanders in high winds?

[pchapman 278]

What kind of wind conditions did people jump in, back in the days of Paracommanders and similar advanced rounds?

Now I'm not talking about the extremes -- I'm sure there are plenty of stories about landing rounds in howling winds.

But for a typical DZ, how much ground wind was too much for the intermediate to advanced jumper? To what degree did people keep on jumping when they were being blown backwards on touchdown?

Did the guys who still had cheapos stand down a lot earlier than the Para-Commander jumpers?

I know a few of the tricks for landing rounds in high winds, eg,
- angling off the wind line a little so one doesn't roll straight back onto one's head
- for the skilled, hook turning the Para-Commander to get extra forward speed for landing
- grabbing risers and turning oneself 180 to land when being blown backwards

Any other tips on dealing with higher wind landings?

I'm curious because I'm still working my way up in wind speed when it comes to jumping my Para-Commanders, which I've only jumped in the last few years. The tendency is still to bring them out only on milder wind days or in the evening.

[jbrasher 1]

That all depends :-)
20 was pretty high
but it really depended on how big your landing area was and how good a spotter you (or someone) was.
You spotted for the round reserve.

Landing tips:
Good medical coverage (although I really never needed it until I started jumping squares)

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Good medical coverage (although I really never needed it until I started jumping squares)

But then you REALLY needed it.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pchapman 278]

Quote

Landing tips:
Good medical coverage

Gee, thanks!
Mind you, I'm Canadian, but that's getting into Speaker's Corner territory.

[JerryBaumchen 1,318]

Hi Peter,

Mr. Brasher has it right: You spotted for your round reserve; if you actually thought about it.

As to the winds: Well, I was a LOT younger & a LOT stupider than I am now.

If it was the weekend and the sun was out, we jumped. Oh, there were those days in which the wind was howling but, hey a jump is a jump. Some days you would be facing into the wind and going back about as fast as the PC would go when pointed down-wind on a normal day.

Oh, did I mention that it rains a lot here in the Pacific NW?

JerryBaumchen

PS) Someone once said that facing your own execution concentrates your mind. Well, going down-wind on an accuracy jump in very high winds and hoping like **** you make the pea-gravel concentrates your thinking pretty good also.

[BCA 1]

Although we sometimes jumped them in higher winds, anything over 14 or 15 mph started to really take the fun out of it.

BCA

[paralola 0]

As an accuracy jumper there was no choice then going in with the wind and the gravel pit was your friend with the right spot. I remember a week of training camp in 72 were winds were hauling at 20-24 knots but never over the 24. We only found out after the camp that the coach blocked the anemometer at 24. That was the legal limit to jump. We had no real injuries, but we weren't walking straight up. But I have to admit I had a hell of a progression during that week.

Always happy to fall out of a plane

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

Seems like 12-15 mph steady surface wind was a maximum. If you spotted for your round reserve -that was the real limiting factor. High winds can make spotting more difficult so landings off the DZ were common. Fortunately we all drifted along more or less together so if you got hurt or dragged into something you weren't alone.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

What kind of wind conditions did people jump in, back in the days of Paracommanders and similar advanced rounds?

I recall the wind limit being 12 mph. Which meant you spent a lot more days on the ground, then we do now.

[JerryBaumchen 1,318]

Hi Peter,

Since we have some folks 'from back in the day' posting, I wonder how many of them remember Daryl Henry's series of articles on 'Command the Commander?'

They really changed how we approached the target from that day forward.

JerryBaumchen

[pchapman 278]

Quote

I wonder how many of them remember Daryl Henry's series of articles on 'Command the Commander?'

Now that would be something for someone to dig out of an old stack of magazines!

Nice to see the replies in this thread, including by some who aren't posting all the time, even if they are lurking.

[dks13827 3]

well, in windy Oklahoma, and later, Texas, we would jump in 15 mph winds without hesitating, and I know of one day we jumped once in gusting to 25. Everyone could hook turn the hell out of those PC's and make a nice stand up landing in those conditions (sometimes we released one capewell right at touchdown, too ). I dont recall any reserve rides happening on those days but it scares me now, that would have been very very bad !!! Trust me.
I guess I should add that Larry Church, who was not used to the winds, didnt want to land across I-35 in San Marcos so he ended up backing into the power lines, cutaway and fell horrendously to the pavement. He died from those injuries.

[blongb 0]

The amount of wind we would accept was dependent upon the number of weekends we weren't able to jump beforehand.

Hook turns would work up to a point, but I would usually rely on the slight side slip into a forced PLF followed by the release of a capwell.

The worst was 40 MPH winds at Greene County Xenia when we landed in a cow field full of fresh cow patties. We bounced along the ground hitting big piles of s*** finally being stopped by the fence at the end. I just couldn't reach my capwell release due to the pounding I was getting.

[nitecap 0]

I remember them well.They were the bible for PC jumpers at the time.
I got some personal coaching from Daryl at Abbotsford.
it did not remove the tension I felt when I turned downwind on a run for the bowl in a 15 to 20 mph wind.

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

Bad way to go I guess.
High voltage wires scared me more than anything else, especially at night, the way they criss-cross the countryside.
Getting fried like a bug in a bug-zapper - nope - I think the best way is to go in so fast that whoever finds what's left says 'what the hell was this shit?'.

[jbrasher 1]

OK, Mr. Bauchen,

If you don't call me Mr. I won't call yoju Mr..

I feel old enough already.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[howardwhite 6]

I have scanned Daryl's "Command the Commander" (published both in Parachutist and Sky Diver) and have his permission to republish them. It was one of a series of well-done (if sometimes too technical) stories on everything from accuracy to baton passes.
They are a little too big to post here, but when I have time, I'll figure out something.

HW

[fallfast69 3]

I didn't make alot of jumps on on a PC, but quite a few on my Piglet. It seems like half the time we were backing into the DZ so winds around 20 I'd say.

Jon

[paralola 0]

Jerry,
I immigrated to the US in 86 so I never had the opportunity to read "Command the Commander". I learned from mentors and coaches. Was a little 'shocked' to see that approach the first when observing an international accuracy competition in the fall of 69. I just came of student status and had a few jump on my first PC MK1.

Always happy to fall out of a plane

[fastphil 0]

As I remember, I made about 350 PC jumps in my first 8 or 9 months of jumping, so I probably jumped in most conditions Mother Nature presented. However, I was 21 at the time and could jump off a two story building and do stand up landings and could run about twenty five MPH or so (I used to run and jump over cars at the DZ just for fun). I landed mostly with a hook turn even in no wind conditions, but they can backfire on you if done too early.

At Z-Hills one Turkeymeet (76 or 77) I learned about spotting for the reserve. One jumper landed his reserve in the loading area and was dragged so far and fast that they were chasing him with the truck, and a friend backed into a tree landing with his reserve and was caught about twenty feet up.

I progressed on from the PC to the Starlite, where we had enough speed for CRW…

[JerryBaumchen 1,318]

Hi 'John,'

You have a deal.

'Jerry'Baumchen ( w/an m )

PS) Howard, I look forward to reading those articles again. And it should be very interesting reading for those folks who are getting these old canopies back into the sky.

PPS) Think we could talk those POPS and/or SOS folks into an accuracy competition with PC's?

[ripcord4 0]

Jerry,

Here's a SOS'er that would be interested in a PC meet!

[lucky508 0]

I'm looking forword to the articles. I jumped my PC last week. big fun.

Cael

[jackwallace 3]

If the trees were swaying with no leaves on them we stopped.
Hook it, backward somersault, plant your feet. Run like hell.
I watched Dirty Billy Bishop running across a plowed field at Hinckley once chaseing his cheapo in 20+ and he would have gone past Carl Lewis, Hussein Bolt or a good horse he was going so fast.
We bought spares!

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

Me too. I worked as a bricklayer-helper and would jump off the buildings rather than go all around to the roof hatch. 21 and strong but not anymore.