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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

Did you call my premise bullshit because you really think it is...or just because I was the one who suggested that premise? ^_^

I just disagree with it regardless of who is saying it. Cooper doesn't get the attention that a lot of other major crimes get. My guess is that is probably why we haven't seen a major movie about it. Even a case like Zodiac has only 1 major movie done that I'm aware of, and just like Cooper that one is unsolved as well. And just as I'm sure a Cooper movie would, they took some liberties with the facts of that case.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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3 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I just disagree with it regardless of who is saying it. Cooper doesn't get the attention that a lot of other major crimes get. My guess is that is probably why we haven't seen a major movie about it. Even a case like Zodiac has only 1 major movie done that I'm aware of, and just like Cooper that one is unsolved as well. And just as I'm sure a Cooper movie would, they took some liberties with the facts of that case.

You're kidding. Leonard Nimoy has done Cooper. Mad Men has done Cooper. There have been other TV shows aplenty about him. More than 25 books as well. Even graphic novels and comic books. But like Zodiac, no one can write the ending. And that's why no one wants to put up the millions of bucks it would take to do a feature film on Cooper. I have had actual movie producers and reps from production companies tell me this personally. I think we do agree on one thing. If a movie about Cooper were ever done, just on the crime itself, yes...they would take liberties. I can tell you that from experience. When those guys down in LA sent me the proposed script for the movie naming KC as Cooper...it was so bad I withdrew from both their money and the contract. Believe it or not, I do have some morals and I won't have any part of producing garbage media on the case, not even for money. 

I wouldn't name Jimmy Carter as the worst President ever. He's a Nobel Peace Prize winner who spent the rest of his life (until he couldn't use a hammer anymore) building houses for poor people and teaching Sunday School. Lousy with the economy, though. That's a given. But he definitely has character. 

Day before yesterday I predicted on Facebook that after the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict, that this would grant license to civilians to drag out their guns and hang out in neighborhoods in Kenosha, WS. Sure enough, I read just that in the news this morning. I fault the prosecutor for this situation, because he was never going to get a conviction on First Degree anything. He should have just gone for voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, which was more in line with what Rittenhouse actually did. I guess people want vigilante justice to come back. All well and good until someone in THEIR family, or one of THEIR friends becomes a victim of vigilantism somehow. Then suddenly it isn't so good anymore. 

Well...I'm going to prep for Thanksgiving and Christmas, do a practice campout in January to test some new gear for the Cooper/UFO party next July...and worry about all that instead. 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I wouldn't name Jimmy Carter as the worst President ever. He's a Nobel Peace Prize winner who spent the rest of his life (until he couldn't use a hammer anymore) building houses for poor people and teaching Sunday School. Lousy with the economy, though. That's a given. But he definitely has character. 

Day before yesterday I predicted on Facebook that after the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict, that this would grant license to civilians to drag out their guns and hang out in neighborhoods in Kenosha, WS. Sure enough, I read just that in the news this morning. I fault the prosecutor for this situation, because he was never going to get a conviction on First Degree anything. He should have just gone for voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, which was more in line with what Rittenhouse actually did. I guess people want vigilante justice to come back. All well and good until someone in THEIR family, or one of THEIR friends becomes a victim of vigilantism somehow. Then suddenly it isn't so good anymore. 

I never said Carter wasn't a good dude. But his actions after he left office have no bearing on what kind of President he was. Great ex-president though, I will give him that.

Kyle Rittenhouse should have just stayed home. It was ill advised to go out there with a gun, any gun. But even doing that, does not mean that he gives up his right to self defense. There was no conviction to be had regardless of the charge. If the governor would have allowed the national guard to come in, then in all probability none of this would have happened. As it often does, partisan politics got in the way. Rittenhouse will most likely file and win a few lawsuits when all is said and done.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off if everyone walked around armed. 

 

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2 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I never said Carter wasn't a good dude. But his actions after he left office have no bearing on what kind of President he was. Great ex-president though, I will give him that.

Kyle Rittenhouse should have just stayed home. It was ill advised to go out there with a gun, any gun. But even doing that, does not mean that he gives up his right to self defense. There was no conviction to be had regardless of the charge. If the governor would have allowed the national guard to come in, then in all probability none of this would have happened. As it often does, partisan politics got in the way. Rittenhouse will most likely file and win a few lawsuits when all is said and done.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off if everyone walked around armed. 

Never could figure out why people who live in a country with laws and courts and cops propose the idea that everyone should pack a gun.

As far as Rittenhouse goes, I doubt he would win any lawsuits. He may be served by other folks on a wrongful death suit or two. The burden there is much easier. Ask OJ Simpson. ^_^

I know some of you out there in Cooperland are not exactly fans of folks like FDR or Obama. I am okay with that because if we only had one political party running everything all the time...they would call us Russia. 

My friend Elena Filatova told me once that when the Soviet Union was still going, they had to offer free drinks to people to get them to vote. She's the anti-nuke activist who used to visit the Chernobyl ghost town of Pripyat. Her father is a nuclear physicist. I don't know if she still has the Kawasaki, though. 

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24 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Never could figure out why people who live in a country with laws and courts and cops propose the idea that everyone should pack a gun.

Because believe it or not, there are some folks out there that choose to not obey the laws. 

Personally, I don't even own a gun. So I'm probably the wrong person to be promoting the idea that everyone go heeled. I don't know that I actually like the idea, but as I said, sometimes I think we would be better off.

Rittenhouse will probably sue for defamation and win. By win, I mean he will get a settlement or most likely, settlements. See Nick Sandmann. But he may instead choose to just disappear and live his life without bringing any more attention to himself.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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On 11/13/2021 at 11:21 PM, FLYJACK said:

Obviously nobody knows of the bomb was real except Cooper,, but I believe it was likely real.

The reason it was dismissed as real was the colour.. The claim, all real dynamite was tan,, that was false. There was red dynamite like these above and they have very little printing and it was taped.. Cooper also warned the crew about the radio setting off the bomb,, might have been a ruse but I doubt it. If the bomb went off the radio transmissions could be blamed.

Further, Cooper was afraid of Sky Marshal's. I can't imagine somebody hijacking with a fake bomb having the confidence to face Sky Marshal's. He didn't know who he would have encountered to convince the bomb was real. If somebody thought it was fake he would have been in a very vulnerable position, probably shot. A real bomb would have given him the confidence.. but if the bomb wasn't real then he probably would have had a concealed weapon for backup.

So, I think it was likely real but if not then he had a backup weapon. Unlikely he only had a fake bomb, that is far too vulnerable. He only had to fool the stews but that wasn't a guarantee going into it.

If he had a fake bomb and somebody called him on it, he could be dead.

I used to work for an explosives company for a short period of time back in the mid 90's. I remember the dynamite that we used was tan, but I want to say that some of it was pink in color as well. The sticks were also short and stubby as opposed to the long skinny sticks we often see. I'd say about 6" in length and probably a couple of inches or so in diameter. As with color, probably many different options in size.

It's interesting that you think the bomb was real as most people believe it was fake. I think most people want to think it was fake because it kind of changes the way we have to view Cooper if the bomb was real. If it's fake, then he has no real intention of blowing the plane up. But, if it's real, then who knows how things would have played out if the airline decided not to meet his demands. I've also wondered if he had a backup plan (gun). No way to know, of course.

The reason I've always thought the bomb to be fake was that I didn't figure that he would bail out of the plane with a real bomb on his person. Not a great reason, I know.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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I think the bomb was fake. As most of you know, our official position at AB of Seattle is that the bomb was *allegedly* made by using paper tubes, coin rolls, in quarter size and filled with quarters. And then they were taped together in twos back-to-back using red electrical tape. And then a large battery and some cut wires were added to the mix. This is the testimony we got from Geestman's niece anyway. 

The gun connection if any, with KC....well, we only have one thing on that. Lyle and Oliver Christiansen, when they were emptying out KC's storage unit in town after his death, found a pistol there. Unfortunately, Lyle remembered them finding the gun but couldn't tell me much about it. He says they didn't bring it back to Minnesota in the truck, but disposed of it somehow. But they were surprised that Kenny would even own a gun. 

I don't make any connections between this and the hijacking because no one actually saw Cooper with a gun. 

On a side note, I discovered two things today. First, that Cooper Con this year didn't get the media coverage it got last time...and far fewer attendees. That could be due to a number of reasons, including the persistent Covid thing which (hopefully) will end someday. 

Second, I had no idea until now that Rob Bertrand at NW Escape Experience at one time believed KC was Cooper. A bit of a surprise. One minute he's on board with holding an event at Mississippi Studios in Portland and offering me a free run through his DB Cooper Room. The next he's bailing on the whole idea. After the weak attendance to this year's convention, maybe he's having second thoughts backing Ulis again. 

I think everyone SHOULD back Ulis for another go around in 2022. But you guys better get your act together and find yourselves a headliner. And some of you are so vested in the whole program in Vancouver, and spend so much of your own money just getting there...that it's time you had a say in the planning of the whole thing. Ulis has had three shots now at the convention thing and this one had the least attendance. My idea of organizing it using a committee system that splits responsibilities...doesn't seem so bad an idea now.

My money says I can get more people to show up to our UFO/Cooper Party this July than you did to that convention. And I ask people to drive off-road for miles just to be there. You guys should be getting at least a couple of hundred people, not 40-60 after a year of planning. 

But then what do I know? Cooperland pretty much believes nothing I suggest to them is right or makes sense. Neither does holding events with a bunch of empty seats and slack media coverage. You should at least be able to get one or the other, if not both. In our case, we can get the people, but most reporters and media aren't willing to drive miles down a Forest Service road to get a story. B)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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2 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I used to work for an explosives company for a short period of time back in the mid 90's. I remember the dynamite that we used was tan, but I want to say that some of it was pink in color as well. The sticks were also short and stubby as opposed to the long skinny sticks we often see. I'd say about 6" in length and probably a couple of inches or so in diameter. As with color, probably many different options in size.

It's interesting that you think the bomb was real as most people believe it was fake. I think most people want to think it was fake because it kind of changes the way we have to view Cooper if the bomb was real. If it's fake, then he has no real intention of blowing the plane up. But, if it's real, then who knows how things would have played out if the airline decided not to meet his demands. I've also wondered if he had a backup plan (gun). No way to know, of course.

The reason I've always thought the bomb to be fake was that I didn't figure that he would bail out of the plane with a real bomb on his person. Not a great reason, I know.

Obviously, we don't know if the bomb was real.. I took the other side of the argument to challenge the dominant thinking. He did mention the radio possibly setting it off, that may have been a ruse, but maybe not. But, I try to imagine myself in that situation with only a fake bomb, that would put the hijacker in a vulnerable position with sky marshals potentially on board. Cooper was fortunate only the stews saw the bomb, but that was not guaranteed. If somebody called his bluff, he was likely dead.

So, I think the bomb was real or if it was fake he must have had a backup weapon even if just for confidence.. 

Imagine robbing a bank with a fake gun... crazy.

In SKYJACK Gray claimed that Cooper said to Tina "They're not gonna take me alive.." 

I haven't found that anywhere, Gray may have just made it up,, does anybody have a source for it.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Conflicting reports from Coopercon....Folks that were there say great turnout, the best yet. Blevins says not a good turnout. I'll trust the folks that were there and saw it first hand.

Theater claims just under 200 tickets were sold. Pictures I have seen, and a couple that were sent to me by email, show between 40-60 people in the audience. You can trust the folks who were there. I will trust what the eye can see. 

Here's the deal:  It isn't whether I am right or wrong that matters. It is the truth that matters. If it is true that less than a hundred people showed up, and people want to inflate the numbers with hot air to make themselves look more important...

Then it just proves they didn't learn anything. It may be a sort of combination deal. One of the pictures I posted showed about 40 people in attendance, with a small portion of the seats not visible. So maybe 60 people there. But...this picture is from the SECOND day of the event. What I think might have happened is that Kiggins is being truthful on the number of tickets sold. And...that maybe some people for one reason or another didn't show up. And...that on the second day of the event...some of the remaining folks figured it wasn't worth the trouble to attend the second day. 

This is the most likely. If people want to prove this or that, the easiest way is by posting up pictures of the audience. Full pictures. It's not like I wished crash-and-burn failure on these guys. Last event got coverage by the Seattle Times and the Vancouver Columbian. Pretty good coverage too. This time the coverage seemed a bit brief. I saw the articles.

We sold a lot of books between the last convention and Christmas. But it helps if people deal in reality. If the convention got less attendance and media write-ups than last time...just means you need to re-think how it's being organized and done. Doesn't mean total failure. 

Remember...our first Skywatch/Cooper party got about 30-35 people is all. (Lots of drop ins though) But we learned from that and expect more than twice that number this year. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Attendance on Saturday was good. The audience on Sunday was a little less. I counted over 100 people on Sunday when I got there, and that was after the bigfoot people left. (Sunday was always going to be a challenge, competing with the NFL is tough)

It was a two day event with 6 hours of programming each day, people were coming and going. Tom Kaye's speech and Bill Mitchell's interview had the highest attendance. 

Edited by Andrade1812

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5 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Attendance on Saturday was good. The audience on Sunday was a little less. I counted over 100 people on Sunday when I got there, and that was after the bigfoot people left. (Sunday was always going to be a challenge, competing with the NFL is tough)

It was a two day event with 6 hours of programming each day, people were coming and going. Tom Kaye's speech and Bill Mitchell's interview had the highest attendance. 

Okay. I will call that a sort-of honest assessment. You guys kind of got dogged by the media though. There was more media leading up to the event then there was about it. All the pictures I have seen, including the ones sent to me from a couple of folks' smartphones, are from the second day. You must mean you counted over a hundred heads on the FIRST day. I was getting pictures like the one below. All of them, including this one from the Kiggins itself, are from the second day I believe. And there are nowhere near a hundred people in that picture. 

May be an image of 4 people and indoor

No worries. We couldn't convince a single reporter to show up at our campout north of Mt Rainier and ten miles off the main highway. (*chuckles*) And I doubt we will next July, either. 

However, Susan has suggested that because she has 5G service and unlimited data plan that we could do a live broadcast via YouTube, and a more formal presentation afterward. I am in favor of this idea for next July. Tell you one funny thing. No one that showed up last time decided to pack it up and leave. The reason being...it's a LONG way back. LOL...once you get them there, that's it baby. (*laughs*) B) In other words, once they arrive and set up their individual sites, that's IT for the weekend. Event runs from Friday morning until Sunday morning, second weekend of July. Because we think campfire restrictions are now becoming a regular thing in the summer, we sprang for a couple of propane-powered fire pits. The one shown below. Because of the ongoing wildfires, these fire restrictions are starting earlier each year and lasting longer. We still haven't decided yet between Darland Mountain or north of Mt. Rainier, but we will. Right now we are leaning toward Rainier because most of the attendees will be coming from the Puget Sound area. We do set up two shower and flush toilet tents, but last time a few folks came in small RV's and were happy to share their bathrooms with others. That was really nice of them. 

Firebowl.jpg.590548bc4d6e380f7e24af2d60d25fbe.jpg

EDIT: I am NOT going to put up any further links to this event at Dropzone. A couple of people here were right saying it was overkill. We are not hard to find on the internet anyway, and practically everyone involved in the Cooper case knows where to find us ON the internet. Anyone actually interested in attending will find a way to get hold of us. As of 11/23/2021 we have signed 48 possible attendees. Only six are either involved with, or are heavy fans of Cooper. The remainder are mostly from SUFON (Seattle UFO Network) or their friends. Officially, we are only allowed to have 75 people, otherwise we have to do a special group permit campout. However...since I know that some people might sign on, but still might not decide to go, I am not cutting off apps until we reach about a hundred people. If we DO get more than 75 people who actually show up, we can ask them to camp very close nearby and we will still be technically within Forest Service rules. So...I will encourage anyone coming to get there as early as they can on that Friday, so they are guaranteed a spot in the main area. 

NOTE: There is no way to compare the event we're doing again in July to Cooper Con. They are two completely different animals. One is an audience with people up on stage discussing different points of the case. Ours is a PARTY. It's our best replacement for the annual Ariel Store Cooper Days party. To be frank about it, we finance this thing because we miss the old Ariel Store parties. That's the truth. I went to three of them, and actually sponsored the final one they ever had. So I was very disappointed when they stopped. When I saw I wasn't going to be able to do the same thing Eric was doing, I figured it might be better not to...and just invent our own theme. 

But...because interest in Cooper alone is waning a bit, and will probably get worse in 2022 since the 50th anniversary has come and gone...I had to expand the event to include the Bigfoot folks, the UFO folks, and the I-Was-Abducted-By-Aliens folks. Discussions are done, but they are more personal. We don't make a separation between an audience and speakers. Last time we just sat in chairs in a big circle and people took turns with their experiences. It went pretty well, but we learned how to make it better for everyone on the next one. The one thing everybody said was missing was campfires...so that's why we went out and got the propane fire bowls. You can have those going even with full fire restrictions. Our other main three things we do are the movies on the big screen, providing mikes and a PA system for people, the free BBQ, and music. We more or less just turn people loose with all that and see how it goes. It's organized, but not that much. We just go with the flow and see what happens. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Update: After much soul searching and long discussions, we have decided to hold this year's event at the same location as LAST year, only one mile further up the road from the last one. That is...the Mt. Rainier site south of Greenwater, WA and off Highway 410. An announcement was made on the SUFON page at Facebook. Much as we liked the Darland Mountain site at 6900 feet, cell service was no good there and the last two miles were pretty rough. Plus Darland is closer to where I live in Yakima and most folks are coming from the Seattle/Puget Sound area. Cell service at the Rainier site is excellent. So we are going with that. (*Is that your final answer?*) YES. The Rainier site is at about 5500 feet. Not as high as Darland, but better for everyone. I told people at SUFON that if you couldn't spot a Rainier UFO from this spot, you just weren't trying. ¬¬

NewSite2.jpg.193da8b0fd76205e7b678966726a0e20.jpg

By the way, I hope some of you guys who went to Cooper Con did videos for YouTube. I already saw the one by Gryder. I mean videos with some meat on the bone about the event itself. It will help you next year. I didn't release a video on last year's campout only because it was the first one we did. Next year I will. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Cooper Con has already happened?  Just getting  back to a Cooper forum after years away.  Could not have attended anyway, I live in eastern Washington now.  Sounds like a fairly successful symposium...or not?  What is your assessment?  Meyer

Edited by MeyerLouie

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1 minute ago, MeyerLouie said:

Cooper Con has already happened?  Just getting  back to a Cooper forum after years away.  Could not have attended anyway, I live in eastern Washington now.  Sounds like a fairly successful symposium...or not?  What is your assessment?  Meyer

Hi Meyer, long time no see. 

I would call it reasonably successful. There are only two remaining Cooper-related events going these days. One is Cooper Con. The other is our crazy party up high and out in the middle of nowhere. Both serve a purpose. B)

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It is such a shame that the DBC party at Ariel is pretty much just a memory now.  I went several times over the years.  Feeling kind of empty knowing that Dona and Bryan are not around anymore to put on the event.  It truly was a great time, I loved it. Met some great, interesting people every time.  When Josh Gates put on a party in Ariel the night  before the Expedition Unknown shoot, it was great.  You were there, Robert, you made one mean hotdog at the BBQ.  The good ol' days..... Meyer

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42 minutes ago, MeyerLouie said:

It is such a shame that the DBC party at Ariel is pretty much just a memory now.  I went several times over the years.  Feeling kind of empty knowing that Dona and Bryan are not around anymore to put on the event.  It truly was a great time, I loved it. Met some great, interesting people every time.  When Josh Gates put on a party in Ariel the night  before the Expedition Unknown shoot, it was great.  You were there, Robert, you made one mean hotdog at the BBQ.  The good ol' days..... Meyer

It IS a shame. No worries, though. We toss an even more interesting party now, to a certain degree anyway. There is much discord sometimes in Cooperland, but we keep trying. Next July will be good I think. Ever since I met Susan and we hooked up for good, things have just gone better all around. She's a real smart cookie, lots of fun, and a wizard at organizing. She is a horse trainer and spent her younger years competing in barrel racing, dressage, and the like. Here, and in England. We're both retired now. 

I'm proposing to her on Thanksgiving Day. I posted these pictures earlier, but here is the two of us and here is the engagement ring. Woo hoo. B) I am way luckier than I deserve. 

RobAndSusan.jpg.8a9826119ed8f206eafbbcea447a9eff.jpg

SusanRing1.jpg.2a5d60fc41a94268150d24e3e0d66737.jpg

Her favorites are white gold, diamond, and sapphire. So I had the jewelry store switch out one of the diamonds for a sapphire. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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By midafternoon, lots of people were gone. The last two speaker segments were sparsely attended. I would wager that was when the picture was taken.

And it makes sense people started to leave, even I was exhausted at that point. A one day event might have been better.

I was told there were 200 tickets sold with 20 speaker passes, and that the theatre peaked at 160 people in the seats on Saturday. There were maybe 40 people left for the final speaker on Sunday. If I had known it was going to be a topic of debate, I would have snapped a picture of the audience.

Edited by Andrade1812

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28 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

By midafternoon, lots of people were gone. The last two speaker segments were sparsely attended. I would wager that was when the picture was taken.

And it makes sense people started to leave, even I was exhausted at that point. A one day event might have been better.

I was told there were 200 tickets sold with 20 speaker passes, and that the theatre peaked at 160 people in the seats on Saturday. There were maybe 40 people left for the final speaker on Sunday. If I had known it was going to be a topic of debate, I would have snapped a picture of the audience.

Were there any new revelations??

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23 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Tom's presentation on the diatoms was incredible. Hopefully it was taped and will be available soon. Tom is now looking for a source of the salt found on the tie, he believes that will be the key.

Yup, I just sent him some info on sodium chloride tablets.. used for dehydration in Vietnam and elsewhere.

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19 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Bill Mitchell said Cooper looked older than any of the sketches, and he definitely affirmed the "turkey gobble" of skin under Cooper's chin.

Cliff Ammerman affirmed the flight path and suggestes V23 was the only route 305 could have taken given Cooper's flight configuration.

Does Bill think after all these years he could identify Cooper?

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23 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

No, he even described how, over time, he had less and less of an ability to separate good from bad matches in photo lineups.

That is expected. There goes my idea... 

Some said in the mid 70's witness memories were already fading.

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