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DB Cooper

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8 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

No one is being gullible Robert. I told you who the women in the video are. They were employees of the bank. There may or may not have been armed guards outside of the camera shot, who knows? My guess is that Dan probably knew someone at that bank and made arrangements to have the video shot. I don't think it's that big of a deal. As far as the gun goes, of course it's a pellet gun. I don't think they would let him bring a real gun into the bank. He even said as much when he called it a "simulated gun".

I'll give Dan the same respect that I give anyone that has a suspect or theory. I'll listen with an open mind and make my own decision on whether I believe it or not. Dan seems to me like a pretty smart guy so I'm not going to pass judgement on what he has before I hear it. Hopefully he has something good. 

You figure he will just re-hash the McCoy theory? Richard McCoy was investigated by folks a lot more thoroughly and much better than this Dan guy. He looks like the type that likes to do stunts to get attention. Smoke and mirrors stuff. Maybe he has something of substance, maybe not. 

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2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You figure he will just re-hash the McCoy theory? Richard McCoy was investigated by folks a lot more thoroughly and much better than this Dan guy. He looks like the type that likes to do stunts to get attention. Smoke and mirrors stuff. Maybe he has something of substance, maybe not. 

I honestly don't know. His guy may not even be McCoy. I've been wrong a time or two in the past...

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8 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I honestly don't know. His guy may not even be McCoy. I've been wrong a time or two in the past...

I think it is McCoy. He's certainly not going for Kenny Christiansen, and if Dan had a new suspect, he would have said so by now. No...I think he's working the McCoy angle. Can't see him trying to pin it on Sheridan Peterson. Dan doesn't know enough about SP's history to even attempt that one. Or maybe he does and knows better. Sheridan isn't Cooper. Neither is McCoy. And I have to toss out the idea he's going the Duane Weber route. That possibility has been so muddled by BS over the years that even if Duane actually DID the crime, no one would be able to wade through all the previous BS to prove it. Nah...I think he's going for McCoy all right. 

Before I go on vacation down to Long Beach (WA) for a while, I have a statement about Cooperland in general. I want to present a few facts so readers can get my view on things, and the present situation IN Cooperland:

  • The internet trolls are out, and I see Bruce Smith as not only a wacko, but also a liar. He pretends to be a serious voice in Cooperland, but can't even control his own WordPress blog. The haters and liars jump into comments on every Cooper article he posts, and he's such a fool that he doesn't realize this hurts HIM and HIS reputation much more than any effect it has on me personally...and doesn't affect our book sales or our business. We are wholesale worldwide, not retail. I have to keep reminding people of this, but they don't listen. Sales and income from Into The Blast remain steady, month after month, year after year, for the last ten plus years. You are wasting your time. 
     
  • For everything positive in a public mode we have either done, or proposed to do regarding Cooper fans and the case...Cooperland has stood against virtually every bit of it. You went against our restoration and saving of the Ariel Store and Tavern, and made fun of our Cooper Campouts. We even planned an event that included the entire cast of Decoded, a famous Hollywood star, and would have paid all the expenses and speaking fees for the same people who will be doing all that for free on November 24...and you would have no part of it. Under our proposal, you would have been standing up in front of a crowd of up to 1,000 or more. Next month you will be lucky to get a hundred. And if you do, thank your lucky stars. And the Ariel Store celebrations are long gone. 
     
  • Now you are stuck with Eric Ulis, a guy with an agenda who believes he should be the star of the show in Cooperland and is using the case to further his own ends. Frankly, you were better off with my ideas and arrangements, which mostly thought of the people who would participate, rather than just making a star of only one guy. I always put others ahead of myself in these things. Not only do you get better results, but people know you are sincere. I also don't mind putting my money where my mouth is to make sure people have fun. I have a history of doing this. 
     
  • Sometimes I think you guys are just beyond hope. You shoot yourselves in the foot much more than other groups who meet in person occasionally. Phoniness is rampant. You have no self-control, or any standards, or any self-policing for the greater good. The UFO people I hang with sometimes are better human beings, and have more common sense than many of you. Jealousy and hatred are your companions. At least sometimes. 
     
  • I only include Cooper folk in our public events because I'm foolish enough to keep giving you chances to remove your heads from your behinds, and discover on which side the bread is actually buttered. You will learn more about this after January 1.
     
  • I still love you guys, but I'm ready to give up on you. Many people say I should. They tell me you are negative energy and  a waste of time. Maybe they are right. 

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I was looking up aircrew training and came across these pics. 
 

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/two-students-at-the-deep-water-environment-survival-training-school-after-being-365fe1

 

And this discussion on parasailing concepts being used to train in the military. 
 

 

 

 

I believe if Cooper had been an aircrew member in the military that he could have learned about parachutes and harnesses like this. 

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3 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I was looking up aircrew training and came across these pics. 
 

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/two-students-at-the-deep-water-environment-survival-training-school-after-being-365fe1

And this discussion on parasailing concepts being used to train in the military. 

I believe if Cooper had been an aircrew member in the military that he could have learned about parachutes and harnesses like this. 

Sounds reasonable. But remember that whoever Cooper was...and if he had military training regarding parachutes...that this training would have been either during WW2, or at best, Korean War-era training. Those photos and that training you posted are from the 1980's. 

Cooper was pegged as being in his mid-40's in 1971. This means he would have been born sometime between 1929 (age 42) and perhaps 1935, (age 48). This puts him in either WW2 or Korean War era training. 

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Decided to cancel my trip to Long Beach, WA. Too cold and too close to Thanksgiving and Christmas. However, I spent last weekend installing new KYB shocks and front strut assemblies on my Xterra. Hard work, but I managed it. Proves I still got it. (*laughs*) Then I took it in for new tires. Already prepping for next July's D.B Cooper/UFO Skywatch Party that is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 8-10, Friday-Sunday, at Darland Mountain, west of Yakima in the Cascades. Google Map search 'Darland Mountain WA' for exact location. 

I say tentatively because although a fairly large group of people have already shown strong interest in tossing the party at that location, some others in the Puget Sound area are pressuring Susan and I to hold it north of Mt. Rainier instead, as we did last year. I also have some concerns on whether people can actually MAKE it to the summit of Darland Mountain, even though a road leads to the top and ends at 6,900 feet. Last mile or so is fairly bumpy, but I made it up there in a Plymouth Horizon once. So it isn't that bad. However, the Rainier location also has cell service (like Darland does) and is at 5,000 feet.

AB of Seattle will make a decision on this by the end of January and our page about it at AB will be updated, but for now it is still Darland. Page is linked above. 

I mean, if you want the best view in WA state, then Darland is the place to go. If you want a slightly easier drive to the party, then Rainier is best. Since I have to worry about whether people will get lost, stuck, or otherwise in trouble, it is possible we will switch back to the spot north of Mt. Rainier. If we do, we will go about a mile or so further to a spot with a much better view of the mountain. We won't use the same spot. One thing that has really helped us is that people are now using smart GPS more and more on their phones, and last time found us at Rainier easily. A voice tells you which road to take, and when turns are coming up, etc. Welcome to the 21st century I guess. On the other side of the coin, my old man used to tell me 'don't change the plan,' and 'don't mess with success,' so the chances we will change this event over to Rainier again are less than one in five. We will probably stick with Darland Mountain and one good reason is we already have about 35 people firmly committed to going. And remember...we can accept no more than 75 applications and then we cut it off right there. Otherwise we start getting into the special permit category and that is a PITA. 

Cooper Con for this year is coming soon. I wish all the attendees the best of luck, but even if I were invited I would have turned down the invitation. Just isn't my cup of tea. My idea of a Cooper event is not a dry discussion, at least one I would organize personally, but a party with a capital 'P'. I tried to organize the indoor stuff, and except for the smaller-scale Cooper Campouts and our hosting of the final Ariel Store and Tavern party, was basically a waste of time. I discovered the outdoor thing worked much better for us and people were much more willing to show up and join us. 

Quote

"They do their thing...and we do OURS..."

I found there are a great many Cooper fans in eastern Washington, which was a surprise to me. And even more UFO/Bigfoot folks. All I offer these people is the opportunity to gather and do whatever the hell they want. I merely provide the means, some of the food, and a bit of the entertainment if they wish. Anyone interested should contact me personally by email or just use the Contact Form at the page linked above. This event is going to happen whether you support it or not, so you might as well join us and have fun. There is no charge, as is normal with everything like this we do. Frankly, I don't mind pumping book sale profits right back into Cooper and/or UFO related gatherings. I get a lot of satisfaction from that and it's always one hell of a fun time. To be frank, the main reason we do this is because there is no longer an Ariel Store and Tavern party and I kind of miss that. Cooper Con might be okay and all, but it just isn't the same thing as Ariel. Since I don't own a tavern, I decided to hold my Cooper parties out in the wilderness, but at spots that are both beautiful...and accessible to everyone. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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FBI file #64 is live...  lots of repeats, 

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper%20/d.b.-cooper-part-64-of-64/view

Cossey made the Dummy chute,,, not Sheridan.

cosseymadedummychute.jpeg.46547af466b55faa45a84027cb731197.jpeg

 

IMPORTANT.. Cossey examined both chutes left on the plane and he (Cossey) explained that the back chutes came from Hayden. Interview May 31/72

cosseyinpectedchutes.jpeg.a150373e0c24c2080f920be04f494524.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Here we go..  CARDS found in back chute pocket labelled "INPECTION AND PACKING DATA" that matches the Pioneer chute 226 returned to Hayden. Both cards 226 and 60-9707 are listed.. both packed by Cossey May 21/71.

226 was returned to Hayden.. 60-9707 must have been Hayden's other chute, the one used by Cooper.. not the one described by Cossey and the FBI as used by Cooper.

 

packcards.jpeg.ca7847fd26a15a870dd4453a89e0315a.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Cooper initially demanded aft stairs lowered after takeoff.. during the Reno negotiations they discussed lowered before takeoff.

Cooper's aft stair demand changed when Reno came into play.

 

stairlwredaftertakeoff.jpeg.e2f0eb179d18525ca70772d3d56f3604.jpeg

 

Confirmed by pilot transcript...

Initial demands radioed by pilots... air stairs lowered after takeoff.

stairtranscript.jpeg.9bef9eca2261851e25180d3591e1f629.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Cossey was SO full of it sometimes regarding the chutes. I can't believe the Seattle FBI bought into some of the garbage he was telling them. He wasn't even AT Skysports on the night of the hijacking. He was at home. 

Witness identifications are notoriously UN-reliable, especially coming from people who were probably already tired when Cooper first presented the note. They had already done at least two stops that I know of, in Montana and then again in Portland. I always like to use the story of the Green River Killer, aka Gary Ridgway, as an example. Several people during Ridgway's killing spree saw him here and there on the SeaTac strip. He was even cited by the SeaTac Airport cops once with a body nearby in the bushes, which they never saw. He was called into the Green River Task Force offices and interviewed. His wanted poster, his likeness, and his description was posted all over the place there. The cops who interviewed him never recognized him from their own sketches. He was only caught after DNA tech caught up to the saliva sample he provided them years before when they interviewed him. 

I see that the Wikipedia entry for DB Cooper is once again pushing the same baloney that there was a 'heavy rainstorm' at the time Cooper jumped. This is total BS and the Wiki entry for that uses the quote by FBI agent Larry Carr as its reference. Looking at the Weather Underground historical records for both Seattle and Portland clearly shows there was no such thing that night. Misty light rain all day, heavy overcast, usual northwest fall weather in other words. Wiki also has the jet going a mere 110 knots (126 MPH) on its way to Portland from Seattle. That is about 4 MPH above a 727's stall speed, and no pilot I know of in his right mind is going to do that. Pilots reported a speed of about 175 MPH at the time Cooper jumped. 

Quote

"There was so much bullshit in Vietnam (Cooper case) you needed wings to stay above it..."
Martin Sheen, from Apocalypse Now

 

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The sketch artist Rose talked to the stews together soon after the hijacking..

A protruding lower lip is something very specific observed in profile as Cooper was seen.. it is not like height which is an estimate in a given context.

and it isn't an error of observation.. it is the equivalent of seeing a scar or tattoo.

the FBI files also state "thin lips".

Witnesses were consistent.. Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics.. not just complexion.

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A little more on that East Fork Lewis R parachute..

A woman from Yacolt Wa contacted the "FBI" saying her son found a shredded military chute in the (South) East Fork Lewis River between Lucia Falls and the Heisson bridge Dec 8.1980.. the chute was rejected because it was claimed orange and white. Cossey had claimed the missing back chute canopy was all white, but it appears Cossey got the chute wrong so it might not have been all white.

The chute was found in the dropzone between the 8:11 and 8:12 flightpath time, about 4 miles E of the flightpath half a mile from the Heisson store and the railroad tracks run right along the River to the store. There was an historic flood in Heisson spring 1972.

If there is an area to search..  this is it, the East Fork Lewis River between Heisson bridge and Lucia Falls.

Red line is the rail tracks, blue line is the East Fork River between the Heisson bridge and Lucia falls. Black mark on Left is the flightpath, it has a 1 mile error.

This area "blueline" is 3-5 miles E of the flightpath right about the 8:12 time.

hiessonchute.jpeg.0b84cdd844cacace4630820aa03ba569.jpeg

 

parachutelewis.jpeg.10773101c3f6d71da415f981053a2cec.jpeg

 

lewischute.jpeg.3a656c0d3a13f51f1161791a1a0d371b.jpeg

lewsichute2.jpeg.6166adcbb59092b8c78932986edb61d8.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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A lot about the parachute discoveries in this release. It amazes me just how many they found, probably more than half a dozen but I haven't finished reading the release yet. And it's troubling how they rely on Cossey to rule most of them out... do any of these parachutes seem worth looking into more besides the East Fork Lewis one?

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8 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

A lot about the parachute discoveries in this release. It amazes me just how many they found, probably more than half a dozen but I haven't finished reading the release yet. And it's troubling how they rely on Cossey to rule most of them out... do any of these parachutes seem worth looking into more besides the East Fork Lewis one?

There are others but no info to go on...

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20 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The sketch artist Rose talked to the stews together soon after the hijacking..

A protruding lower lip is something very specific observed in profile as Cooper was seen.. it is not like height which is an estimate in a given context.

and it isn't an error of observation.. it is the equivalent of seeing a scar or tattoo.

the FBI files also state "thin lips".

Witnesses were consistent.. Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics.. not just complexion.

Then why didn't any of the witnesses identify Hahneman as the hijacker, after his picture was plastered across newspapers in the US and elsewhere a few months later....

Geoff Gray, who is the only person to date to be given access to the UN-redacted and UN-edited original witness statements taken down by the FBI...says in his book the witnesses were all over the place with their descriptions. One said Cooper was no more than five nine. Another thought he was over six feet. Another said six feet or a bit less. Different comments on the hair, other things. 

You keep ignoring some real basic facts here:

  • Hahneman pulled off his own hijacking just a few months after Cooper did. 
     
  • He was seen at length by not only witnesses at the hotel where he stayed, but by most of the passengers and crew on the aircraft he hijacked. 
     
  • He was CAUGHT and sent to Federal prison after a court appearance and a guilty plea later. 
     
  • His picture was in all the newspapers. 
     
  • He was never charged with the Cooper hijacking, and there is little or nothing about him in any of the FBI files on Cooper. At least so far. 
     
  • He spent more than ten years in prison under the care and observation of the Feds...who were STILL beating the bushes for Cooper. 
     
  • And in all of that, and AFTER all of that...you want people to believe Cooper was Hahneman and no one from the investigation into the Cooper hijacking, or the FBI or other LEO involved here...noticed he might be a good suspect? Or even wondered about it?
     

It is nearly beyond the realm of possibility. We're talking a major crime with an identified suspect (Hahneman), same type of crime (skyjacking/extortion for money), involving the same law enforcement agency looking for Cooper (FBI). Either everyone was as dumb as a bag of hammers, or you are wrong about Cooper being Hahneman. Someone would have figured it out. And quickly, too. In fact, there is no doubt that right after Hahneman pulled his little stunt, that the first thing the Feds would have wondered was if Hahneman was also Cooper. You don't even give them credit for that, when that idea would have been obvious to them. 

The most likely scenario is that the FBI did wonder if Hahneman and Cooper were the same person, as soon as Hahneman hijacked that jet and got his money and chutes. But somehow they were able to eliminate him from the suspect pool so easily that he doesn't get more than a brief mention in their Cooper files, if that. What's going on here is that THEY probably know something about his alibi for Cooper that you do NOT know. There are only two real possibilities for that. First, that the FBI easily established an alibi for him regarding 11/24/1971. Or...the witnesses were contacted privately and shown his pictures...and said he wasn't Cooper. 

Maybe both. Maybe more. 

Phase Two: There is also the manner of modus operandi in both crimes. Cooper was cool and collected and polite, and never made ugly threats to anyone. Hahneman threatened people (a lot) with the gun he carried and put a noose around the pilot's neck at one point. Both Cooper and Hahneman smoked, but Cooper smoked Raleighs, while Hahneman demanded a few cartons of Benson and Hedges cigarettes. Their methods of hijacking were as different as night and day. Even while Hahneman was on the run in Honduras for a month...the FBI identified him and had his picture. But for some reason, the FBI figured out he wasn't Cooper. And during the time he was on the run, FBI agents were canvassing and questioning his family, his friends, his co-workers, and all the witnesses from the flight. 

To cut to the chase....if Hahneman had been DB Cooper...the FBI would have figured it out very quickly. When you have an identified perp in custody, it's not that hard to link him to a similar crime occurring only a few months beforehand...the Cooper hijacking. They would have been on top of that angle, and quickly. Yet they never did. Then there was the 10+ years he was also available to them while he sat in Federal prison. It would have been child's play for the Feds to link him to the Cooper hijacking, if indeed he were Cooper. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Then why didn't any of the witnesses identify Hahneman as the hijacker, after his picture was plastered across newspapers in the US and elsewhere a few months later....

Geoff Gray, who is the only person to date to be given access to the UN-redacted and UN-edited original witness statements taken down by the FBI...says in his book the witnesses were all over the place with their descriptions. One said Cooper was no more than five nine. Another thought he was over six feet. Another said six feet or a bit less. Different comments on the hair, other things. 

You keep ignoring some real basic facts here:

  • Hahneman pulled off his own hijacking just a few months after Cooper did. 
     
  • He was seen at length by not only witnesses at the hotel where he stayed, but by most of the passengers and crew on the aircraft he hijacked. 
     
  • He was CAUGHT and sent to Federal prison after a court appearance and a guilty plea later. 
     
  • His picture was in all the newspapers. 
     
  • He was never charged with the Cooper hijacking, and there is little or nothing about him in any of the FBI files on Cooper. At least so far. 
     
  • He spent more than ten years in prison under the care and observation of the Feds...who were STILL beating the bushes for Cooper. 
     
  • And in all of that, and AFTER all of that...you want people to believe Cooper was Hahneman and no one from the investigation into the Cooper hijacking, or the FBI or other LEO involved here...noticed he might be a good suspect? Or even wondered about it?
     

It is nearly beyond the realm of possibility. We're talking a major crime with an identified suspect (Hahneman), same type of crime (skyjacking/extortion for money), involving the same law enforcement agency looking for Cooper (FBI). Either everyone was as dumb as a bag of hammers, or you are wrong about Cooper being Hahneman. Someone would have figured it out. And quickly, too. In fact, there is no doubt that right after Hahneman pulled his little stunt, that the first thing the Feds would have wondered was if Hahneman was also Cooper. You don't even give them credit for that, when that idea would have been obvious to them. 

The most likely scenario is that the FBI did wonder if Hahneman and Cooper were the same person, as soon as Hahneman hijacked that jet and got his money and chutes. But somehow they were able to eliminate him from the suspect pool so easily that he doesn't get more than a brief mention in their Cooper files, if that. What's going on here is that THEY probably know something about his alibi for Cooper that you do NOT know. There are only two real possibilities for that. First, that the FBI easily established an alibi for him regarding 11/24/1971. Or...the witnesses were contacted privately and shown his pictures...and said he wasn't Cooper. 

Maybe both. Maybe more. 

Phase Two: There is also the manner of modus operandi in both crimes. Cooper was cool and collected and polite, and never made ugly threats to anyone. Hahneman threatened people (a lot) with the gun he carried and put a noose around the pilot's neck at one point. Both Cooper and Hahneman smoked, but Cooper smoked Raleighs, while Hahneman demanded a few cartons of Benson and Hedges cigarettes. Their methods of hijacking were as different as night and day. Even while Hahneman was on the run in Honduras for a month...the FBI identified him and had his picture. But for some reason, the FBI figured out he wasn't Cooper. And during the time he was on the run, FBI agents were canvassing and questioning his family, his friends, his co-workers, and all the witnesses from the flight. 

To cut to the chase....if Hahneman had been DB Cooper...the FBI would have figured it out very quickly. When you have an identified perp in custody, it's not that hard to link him to a similar crime occurring only a few months beforehand...the Cooper hijacking. They would have been on top of that angle, and quickly. Yet they never did. Then there was the 10+ years he was also available to them while he sat in Federal prison. It would have been child's play for the Feds to link him to the Cooper hijacking, if indeed he were Cooper. 

Meh, same old..

There is more on the FBI investigating KC in the FBI files than Hahneman, by your logic KC can't be Cooper or the FBI would have figured it out. The same argument you use against Hahneman can be applied to KC and you fail to recognize it.

Your argument is irrational.

but, I get it your KC narrative is threatened by the facts so you lash out.. KC was not Cooper and you know it but have to defend it because you are so emotionally invested. It isn't personal, it is reality.

 

The evidence..

Cooper had thin lips and a protruding lower lip. That can be many people but it does eliminate most.

Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics as well as "swarthy/olive" complexion.

 

Anybody that ignores that has zero credibility.

 

 

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Part #64 has the same Tina interview in the file Geoffrey Gray released years ago. Not everybody got it.

Cooper money wrapped in bank bands..

(Tina) "said she observed was money packed in small packages with bank-type bands around each package"

tinabanktypebands.jpeg.933038df5c68ec0d400bd830adca7223.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, DFS346 said:

DFS that’s your book right? I’m looking forward to it. Question for you or anyone else here. Are there solid 302s that describe the actual weather that day/night? Wind speed at 10,000 feet and on ground. Air temp at 10,000 feet and on ground. Actual precipitation  at 10,000 and on the ground. I’ve heard so many stories. I’ve heard snow. Rain storm. Freezing temps. I’d like to have one document that puts it to rest. 

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2 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

DFS that’s your book right? I’m looking forward to it. Question for you or anyone else here. Are there solid 302s that describe the actual weather that day/night? Wind speed at 10,000 feet and on ground. Air temp at 10,000 feet and on ground. Actual precipitation  at 10,000 and on the ground. I’ve heard so many stories. I’ve heard snow. Rain storm. Freezing temps. I’d like to have one document that puts it to rest. 

There is but not at the 8:11-8:12 jump time and location..

The weather reports and wind speed/directions are not specific enough, they used Portland and Salem as a proxy, so virtually useless for the "FBI" jump zone..

Mixed rain, mixed clouds, wind shifting between SE and SW around 8 PM..

Cooper could have been on the clouds or in a break when he jumped.

Pilots did report icing..

WINDESTIMATE.jpeg.4380f47b578943b803fecab1535b9dbf.jpeg

toledowind8pm.jpeg.6cf4510235a27387a782c0eca7f804b2.jpeg

Seattle

windseattle.jpeg.35d35edcec43d908e641ab15e20b4fc6.jpeg

 

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30 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

DFS that’s your book right? I’m looking forward to it. Question for you or anyone else here. Are there solid 302s that describe the actual weather that day/night? 

Yes, I'm the author of "D. B. Cooper and Flight 305". I think Flyjack's post #64549 has correctly identified the documents in the FBI Vault that refer to reported weather conditions on 11.24.1971. However the NOAA has a database of radiosonde observations for 11.24.1971 and the preceding and following days, up to and above 10,000 feet AMSL, from (IIRC) SeaTac, Gray AAF and Salem.(but not Portland).

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