DB Cooper

[olemisscub 466]

I’m blocking Slim King. If you’ll block him as well give this post a like.

[FLYJACK 654]

20 hours ago, georger said:

So, every flood or high water deposits and leaves how much sand at the 35ft Ingram site?  1" ? 20" 6-8" ?  (if it was a recent arrival). Date the layers Palmer identified ...

The fact that the money was found in the upper layer with "fresher" debris supports the money arriving within a year or so of the find. (8-20 months)

You'd think we could determine if the money arrived in 71-72 or 78-79...

The condition if money does not support the claim it was deposited right before the find..  

Edited November 18, 2023 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 466]

Hell of a first paragraph!

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inside-coopercon-where-d-b-cooper-is-a-mystery-a-passion-and-a-community/?fbclid=IwAR1Ujx-v-IBV5zrJLwHl8WMq6UiKYknrm18xkkkoh3OusDJf9CFHOTvfRDo_aem_ASsfZ-UanST5gCpGBDQoXsiqkDCmMimoW8eAx96KpSOPvM0WZU5onwGaBSLplbmBp7E

[olemisscub 466]

Amen, Tom

[georger 197]

4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The fact that the money was found in the upper layer with "fresher" debris supports the money arriving within a year or so of the find. (8-20 months)

You'd think we could determine if the money arrived in 71-72 or 78-79...

The condition if money does not support the claim it was deposited right before the find..  

You dont seem to understand how beaches/erosion works. As new material is added, old material is also taken away. It is a combination of addition and subtraction. New material added - old material eroded away. The Ingram find was 'in' the upper active reworked layer'  (Palmer's words not mine) which is a cross bedded layer representing many periods of water cycles stretching back in time.

The whole history of Tena Bar is erosion vs addition, with erosion always winning over time. Look at the photos 1950 to date. Prior to massive dredging and rebuilding Tena Bar and Cat Isle didnt even exist!  We are never going to agree on the hydrology of this place ........... I have a game to watch.   

[FLYJACK 654]

47 minutes ago, georger said:

You dont seem to understand how beaches/erosion works. As new material is added, old material is also taken away. It is a combination of addition and subtraction. New material added - old material eroded away. The Ingram find was 'in' the upper active reworked layer'  (Palmer's words not mine) which is a cross bedded layer representing many periods of water cycles stretching back in time.

The whole history of Tena Bar is erosion vs addition, with erosion always winning over time. Look at the photos 1950 to date. Prior to massive dredging and rebuilding Tena Bar and Cat Isle didnt even exist!  We are never going to agree on the hydrology of this place ........... I have a game to watch.   

 

It was in a layer with "fresher" debris.... 

So, how does the money theoretically older debris,  get into a layer of fresher debris? 

If the money was older debris, you'd expect to find other old debris in that layer as well..

Palmer also concluded that the money arrived by the River within the last 2-3 months... (diatoms suggest slightly longer) but recent, not 71-72..

 

If Palmer is correct and the diatoms are correct then the money went into the River in Spring 79 or maybe 78 and was deposited soon after. 

Therefore, somebody had that money stored for some time and Cooper's jump location is irrelevant to TBAR.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by FLYJACK

[georger 197]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

It was in a layer with "fresher" debris.... 

So, how does the money theoretically older debris,  get into a layer of fresher debris? 

If the money was older debris, you'd expect to find other old debris in that layer as well..

Palmer also concluded that the money arrived by the River within the last 2-3 months... (diatoms suggest slightly longer) but recent, not 71-72..

 

If Palmer is correct and the diatoms are correct then the money went into the River in Spring 79 or maybe 78 and was deposited soon after. 

Therefore, somebody had that money stored for some time and Cooper's jump location is irrelevant to TBAR.

 

OK. Thanks for the info ...

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, georger said:

OK. Thanks for the info ...

Palmer's reasoning..

"not at the site for more than a year"

 

[georger 197]

9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Palmer's reasoning..

"not at the site for more than a year"

 

So reading this doc:  'not at this site for more than a year' but ' would tend to lend credence to the assumption that the money  had been at the location where found a longer period of time.'

So:  when Palmer makes up his mind be sure and let everyone know! 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by georger

[ParrotheadVol 70]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:23 AM, olemisscub said:

I’m blocking Slim King. If you’ll block him as well give this post a like.

I did as well. 

[olemisscub 466]

Rubber bands on both sides of the bills confirmed. A rubber band down the middle would have squished the middle of the bills together and you’d see fewer diatoms in the middle. Fewer diatoms on the edges means it was rubber banded on the sides.

[FLYJACK 654]

21 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Rubber bands on both sides of the bills confirmed. A rubber band down the middle would have squished the middle of the bills together and you’d see fewer diatoms in the middle. Fewer diatoms on the edges means it was rubber banded on the sides.

and I bet the paper strap was slightly right of center.. where there are fewer diatoms.

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

and I bet the paper strap was slightly right of center.. where there are fewer diatoms.

Tom's work proves:  the Cooper money was brought up on Tena Bar 'in the mouth of a turtle' !    Or a steelhead ...

The turtles name was:  Irene.   The turtle lived at the marina on Caterpillar Island !  A boat owner there may be DB Cooper.

Edited November 19, 2023 by georger

[olemisscub 466]

[ParrotheadVol 70]

6 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I wish I could have been there, looks like a blast! How was the attendance? From the pics I saw it looked down from last year.

[olemisscub 466]

23 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I wish I could have been there, looks like a blast! How was the attendance? From the pics I saw it looked down from last year.

About 25 more than last year. No reason it shouldn’t be much more. 

[olemisscub 466]

So here is one of the weird ones to figure out. Tom was unable to find any evidence that the bills had been exposed to “dirty water” i.e. flood water. There was no indication of any silt on the bills, which flood water will always have.

[CooperNWO305 146]

58 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

So here is one of the weird ones to figure out. Tom was unable to find any evidence that the bills had been exposed to “dirty water” i.e. flood water. There was no indication of any silt on the bills, which flood water will always have.

Interesting, I'll have to see the presentation. Do you know if it was filmed? I may email Tom for the PowerPoint.  Didn't the Ingrams use dish soap to wash the bills?

Please don't tell me this will perpetuate the "buried the night of the jump" theory.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

So here is one of the weird ones to figure out. Tom was unable to find any evidence that the bills had been exposed to “dirty water” i.e. flood water. There was no indication of any silt on the bills, which flood water will always have.

Flood stage is 16ft,,  IMO the money was at about 6-7 ft... Tom thinks a couple feet higher but the money may have been deposited at a high water above the money but well below flood stage.

The money was about the normal high water line.

[olemisscub 466]

54 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Interesting, I'll have to see the presentation. Do you know if it was filmed? I may email Tom for the PowerPoint.  Didn't the Ingrams use dish soap to wash the bills?

Please don't tell me this will perpetuate the "buried the night of the jump" theory.

So Tom didn’t actually do a presentation on that. He just told us about it. 

[georger 197]

8 hours ago, olemisscub said:

So here is one of the weird ones to figure out. Tom was unable to find any evidence that the bills had been exposed to “dirty water” i.e. flood water. There was no indication of any silt on the bills, which flood water will always have.

What evidence of exposure to flood water is Tom looking for ?  Is there going to be a report or not! ?  Once again the world is left guessing .... by the Cooper Royalty.   

The water cycles at TBar 1972 to 1980 are well known and defined in data. What 'floods' (dirty water?) occurred during this period?  What is dirty water vs clean water ?  The turtles at TBar want to know!   

Oh! ?  Is there a half clean vs half dirty water?  What would define that on Tom's measure meter?  What is flotsam vs. jetsam at Tena Bar in Feb 1980?  

To help, let me suggest:  Identification of elements exposed to flood hazard in a section of Trotus River, Romania https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19475705.2018.1486891

or   .....

Marie Antoinette at Tena Bar

Queen Marie Antoinette helped provoke the popular unrest that led to the French Revolution and to the overthrow of the monarchy in 1792.

By Biography.com Editors and Barbara MaranzaniUpdated: Jul 11, 2023  https://www.biography.com/royalty/marie-antoinette

Edited November 20, 2023 by georger

[olemisscub 466]

3 hours ago, georger said:

What evidence of exposure to flood water is Tom looking for ?  Is there going to be a report or not! ?  Once again the world is left guessing .... by the Cooper Royalty.   

The water cycles at TBar 1972 to 1980 are well known and defined in data. What 'floods' (dirty water?) occurred during this period?  What is dirty water vs clean water ?  The turtles at TBar want to know!   

Oh! ?  Is there a half clean vs half dirty water?  What would define that on Tom's measure meter?  What is flotsam vs. jetsam at Tena Bar in Feb 1980?  

To help, let me suggest:  Identification of elements exposed to flood hazard in a section of Trotus River, Romania https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19475705.2018.1486891

or   .....

Marie Antoinette at Tena Bar

Queen Marie Antoinette helped provoke the popular unrest that led to the French Revolution and to the overthrow of the monarchy in 1792.

By Biography.com Editors and Barbara MaranzaniUpdated: Jul 11, 2023  https://www.biography.com/royalty/marie-antoinette

Money bundles sink. Thus, for a flood to be the culprit for how the bundle arrived at TB, the bundle would have to be pushed there along with debris churned up by flood water. There would be silt on the bills if it came in contact with flood water. That is “dirty water.” If, for example, someone just dunked the money in the Columbia and then threw it in a hole, there would not be any significant amount of silt in that water. That would be “clean water.”

As obnoxious as the “someone planted it there” theory is, Kaye’s latest analysis actually tends to support that. 

Presumably if the bundle was part of dredge spoils it would also have “dirty water”

[FLYJACK 654]

49 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Money bundles sink. Thus, for a flood to be the culprit for how the bundle arrived at TB, the bundle would have to be pushed there along with debris churned up by flood water. There would be silt on the bills if it came in contact with flood water. That is “dirty water.” If, for example, someone just dunked the money in the Columbia and then threw it in a hole, there would not be any significant amount of silt in that water. That would be “clean water.”

As obnoxious as the “someone planted it there” theory is, Kaye’s latest analysis actually tends to support that. 

Presumably if the bundle was part of dredge spoils it would also have “dirty water”

Nope. Water can be above the TBAR spot without a flood.

[olemisscub 466]

24 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Nope. Water can be above the TBAR spot without a flood.

But we are talking about natural arrival here.  How does it get there (and get soaked) absent human intervention without a flood or dredge?  

[FLYJACK 654]

32 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

But we are talking about natural arrival here.  How does it get there (and get soaked) absent human intervention without a flood or dredge?  

You created a false binary..

These are two independent things... the money entering the River and the money landing on TBAR.

Tom's research suggests the money did not arrive during a flood or dredge.. lack of silt. Sounds reasonable.

However, you don't need a flood for the money to go into the River and you don't need a flood for the money to reach the find spot due to water level. The money spot is well below flood stage.

 

Flotsam OR Jetsam...

Flotsam is debri unintentionally or accidentally introduced into the water...

Jetsam is debri intentionally introduced into the water...

I have a theory for each... neither requires a flood.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by FLYJACK