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54 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Noticed something odd...

There is a white cotton/canvas bag with the pink reserve parachute shown by the FBI during the History channel show.. "D B Cooper case closed"

That white bag was NOT shown during Tom Kaye's examination..

https://citizensleuths.com/pink-parachute-gallery.html

Is it part of the reserve chute? or something else? It looks attached. Didn't an FBI file state Cooper tried to wrap the money in white material..

It came out of the box with the reserve container and pink chute.. appears attached to the open reserve container??

reservechutewhitscontainer.jpeg.dc7941e2b91bddb77df1439e55c65e39.jpeg

bagchute2.jpeg.9f762b7b05189b088f81ed031dd8115c.jpeg

bagchute3.jpeg.e1ad32c19749ecc2a1a49188a9cda25f.jpeg

 

 

Strange. And a good question. I have no idea what it is. Looks like it's been hacked rather sloppily with a knife or something, though. The jagged cut does not indicate it was done with scissors. I wouldn't think so anyway. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Noticed something odd...

There is a white cotton/canvas bag with the pink reserve parachute shown by the FBI during the History channel show.. "D B Cooper case closed"

That white bag was NOT shown during Tom Kaye's examination..

https://citizensleuths.com/pink-parachute-gallery.html

Is it part of the reserve chute? or something else? It looks attached. Didn't an FBI file state Cooper tried to wrap the money in white material..

It came out of the box with the reserve container and pink chute.. appears attached to the open reserve container??

reservechutewhitscontainer.jpeg.dc7941e2b91bddb77df1439e55c65e39.jpeg

bagchute2.jpeg.9f762b7b05189b088f81ed031dd8115c.jpeg

bagchute3.jpeg.e1ad32c19749ecc2a1a49188a9cda25f.jpeg

 

 

More pics...  Tom said he never saw a white "bag"

Could it be some inner liner that perhaps was not sent to Tom?? or from the dummy chute?? It has an evidence tag attached to it.

 

 

reservebag6.jpeg.3762ad488d772295af9546484fd250f0.jpeg

reservebag5.jpeg.5f10ea7c2f6c70b3d3cfe8a87af30fd6.jpeg

reservebag4.jpeg.8babb46da40ec6db3ba8e35db603aba2.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Noticed something odd...

That white thing is odd. I don't think it's part of the gear, that container would not have any sort of inner liner or outer covering. It does not appear in any of Tom Kaye's pictures, and that ragged edge is not consistent with any manufactured parachute gear. It's weird that it does appear attached, perhaps it's just snagged? It seems to have some writing on it, is there any shot where that is legible? Those pics appear to be screen grabs from a video, would it be possible to upload the video to youtube or somewhere and link to it here? It might be helpful to see how it 'moves' with the gear as it's being taken out of the box. It has an evidence tag? Is it possibly part of the bank bag? Is it known whether that video is before or after Tom Kaye got his look at it?

------

Not sure if I ever posted this, but those non-pink lines attached to the handles of the container were most likely there when it was given to Cooper. I was trying to better remember that gear from my early days, R99 made a guess that turned out to be correct, I asked a rigger about it, and...  On those reserves, the main attachment point (for both the container and the canopy inside) is those two metal clips on the top. But if that was all that was attached, the container would flop around, so the bottom of the container had to be secured down. On the original rigs those were designed with, the main container had a strap that was sewn on one hip, threaded through those side handles, and attached to the other hip. On later rigs, the reserve had a strap across the bottom of the back that would clip onto lower D-rings on the main harness. In that picture you posted of Emerick standing by his gear rack, I believe such a strap can be seen on the reserve that he is holding. On other rigs, they simply attached a piece of line to the handles and tied it to the main harness, and that is what those lines are. Again, it's nothing structural as to how the reserve attaches, it just holds the bottom of the container down.

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Also, in the D B Cooper case closed is a RECORDAK box...

This is probably the money...  it was complicated because 30k of the 230k money from the original emergency bank stash was immediately made into another bank stash. The FBI couldn't sort out the list from the original Micro and asked for a list of the second bank stash.

Tom said he couldn't find it..

 

The key is the original order of the bills..

 

FBI evidence..

filmrecordcooper.jpeg.b6490f7b65f5e9e6c6928f361f58f3b1.jpeg

 

Image of random Recorak box from net to confirm..

microfilm-of-the-miners-journal-pa-newpaper_1_b0ebc79cb704bbc45db01d5aebd0a5ea.jpg.f0fc5503692f8c5dd0e342e0214bc174.jpg

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

That white thing is odd. I don't think it's part of the gear, that container would not have any sort of inner liner or outer covering. It does not appear in any of Tom Kaye's pictures, and that ragged edge is not consistent with any manufactured parachute gear. It's weird that it does appear attached, perhaps it's just snagged? It seems to have some writing on it, is there any shot where that is legible? Those pics appear to be screen grabs from a video, would it be possible to upload the video to youtube or somewhere and link to it here? It might be helpful to see how it 'moves' with the gear as it's being taken out of the box. It has an evidence tag? Is it possibly part of the bank bag? Is it known whether that video is before or after Tom Kaye got his look at it?

------

Not sure if I ever posted this, but those non-pink lines attached to the handles of the container were most likely there when it was given to Cooper. I was trying to better remember that gear from my early days, R99 made a guess that turned out to be correct, I asked a rigger about it, and...  On those reserves, the main attachment point (for both the container and the canopy inside) is those two metal clips on the top. But if that was all that was attached, the container would flop around, so the bottom of the container had to be secured down. On the original rigs those were designed with, the main container had a strap that was sewn on one hip, threaded through those side handles, and attached to the other hip. On later rigs, the reserve had a strap across the bottom of the back that would clip onto lower D-rings on the main harness. In that picture you posted of Emerick standing by his gear rack, I believe such a strap can be seen on the reserve that he is holding. On other rigs, they simply attached a piece of line to the handles and tied it to the main harness, and that is what those lines are. Again, it's nothing structural as to how the reserve attaches, it just holds the bottom of the container down.

I can't find the vid online.. too big to post.

It was after Tom Kaye looked at the chute.

If you PM me your email I can send a short clip.

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20 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It was after Tom Kaye looked at the chute.

Then it has to be just something else in the box that got snagged up with it. I don't think it's related to the parachute.

-----

Flyjack, I have a question about the airstairs. In both an article and a video that were linked here some time ago, it is indicated that in their normal hydraulic operation, the stairs are either all the way up or down, they can't be lowered just part way. Supposedly Cooper had trouble getting them open, I don't know if there was a mechanism that prevented them from being lowered in flight. He then apparently pulled the emergency handle, which would disconnect them from the hydraulic system and allow them to 'free float' as was the case. (Does that all sound correct?) My question is, is it known how that compares to McCoy's and Hanneman's (sp?) experience with their stairs?

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38 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Then it has to be just something else in the box that got snagged up with it. I don't think it's related to the parachute.

-----

Flyjack, I have a question about the airstairs. In both an article and a video that were linked here some time ago, it is indicated that in their normal hydraulic operation, the stairs are either all the way up or down, they can't be lowered just part way. Supposedly Cooper had trouble getting them open, I don't know if there was a mechanism that prevented them from being lowered in flight. He then apparently pulled the emergency handle, which would disconnect them from the hydraulic system and allow them to 'free float' as was the case. (Does that all sound correct?) My question is, is it known how that compares to McCoy's and Hanneman's (sp?) experience with their stairs?

The stairs are hydraulic lift, gravity drop..  they need to extend fully to lock down. 

When Cooper pulled the lever to open them the air resistance kept them up, slightly open.

The pilot slowed the plane down to about 170 knots and Cooper made his way down, his weight pushing the airstairs open but they never locked fully down. When he jumped the loss of weight and air resistance pushed the airstairs back up..

There is no evidence Cooper pulled the emergency handle, that is speculation to try to explain the placard...  WE don't know if that plane had the emergency system, if Cooper used it or if the placard even came from that plane.

 

Tina showed Cooper how to open the airstairs,, Hahneman did not get airstair instructions, the speed was just 125 knots jumping at 9,000 feet. Hahneman walked backward down the stairs and went off back first.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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I decided to release some pictures of the counter top piece I still have stored in the office, the one shown in the original Decoded show. 

Background: I was actually present when the cast and crew of Decoded discovered this item. They got the idea to use infrared to try and detect cold and hot spots in KC's house, in an effort to discover any evidence that had been left behind in the home by KC. 

So...they start scanning the house with the infrared, but they aren't really coming up with much. Finally, they get the idea to point it at the ceilings and got a cold reading on the ceiling in Kenny's old bedroom, which would put this spot in the attic of the house. We asked the current owner, the print shop guy, where the access panel was leading to the attic, and he said there wasn't one. It was soon determined that the only access to the attic was by removing an octagonal attic vent, one of two on each end of the house. 

They borrow a ten-foot ladder and Scott Rolle goes up there and reports that several large screws are holding the attic vent in place, the one closest to the cold spot. He uses a screwdriver to remove the screws and crawls inside the attic. After some probing around with a flashlight, he finds the following:

A large board with Formica top is sitting on top of two of the attic joists, and it is covered with insulation. He brushes away the insulation and removes the board. Underneath it, someone had taken two 2x6 boards and nailed them to the joists crosswise, to create a sort of box, with the Formica counter piece covering it on top. The bottom of this 'box' is the sheetrock from the ceiling. Two sides are the 2x6, the other two sides are the attic joists. 

Contrary to what was indicated on the show, I found out later that this counter top board did NOT have hinges on it. Scott Rolle thought it did, and said so while the camera was rolling. Off camera, he corrected himself, but it was left in the show for what reason I am not sure. After the filming was over, I went back to the house some time later and asked the owner if I could go back up there and keep the board for research. He said yes. So I went up there and took it home. 

Pictures below with my notes: 

CountertopStillforPrint.thumb.jpg.f3ee10a6a65eda454212a8deceb2f1b7.jpg

One of the first things I did with this was to take it to a company that had been in the counter top installation business for many years. A few of the guys there examined it. They told me two things about it. First, it was OLD. They guessed at least thirty years and possibly more. They also said it was definitely SCRAP due to the age and because the saw cuts were done quickly and kind of sloppily. Whatever it was supposed to do, whatever purpose it served, it was done in a hurry. 

Witnesses Helen Jones and Margie Geestman had both told me that KC tore out the counter material in his kitchen and replaced it with more or less the same color, right after he moved into the house in 1972. But, he did keep the original cabinets. The picture below lends truth to those statements. It's a 1992 picture of Robin Powell on Halloween, standing in KC's kitchen. The cabinets are obviously very old, but the counter top material looks much newer:

db2.jpg.da23982d1f9e91e18fd50abd25437bfa.jpg

BELOW:  Stain from the board matched the color of the old cabinets, meaning someone PRIOR to KC did the cabinet staining, since he pulled all the counter top material when he moved into the home. What does this mean? It proves KC was the one who cut a spare piece from the scrap, took the trouble to climb into the attic, nail in a pair of 2x6's to make a box, and covered this space with the counter scrap piece. Then...he would have climb back out using a ten-foot ladder, and re-secure the attic vent with its eight screws. The question is, why would he do that? I've been up in that attic. The center height is four feet. It is a very cramped space and takes several minutes just to remove the attic vent, let alone to replace it. He also tossed some loose insulation on top of this whole assembly to conceal it. 

CountertopPieceBackSide.jpg.3e6a7adc60b50e8109e0043cc98d6c41.jpg

BELOW: An edit. I added one more picture. One reason why Scott Rolle may have thought at first the board was hinged was because it had been nailed in place. Not very well, though. He was able to remove it easily, once he found it under the insulation. The cold spot on the infrared that revealed its location was directly above near-center of the ceiling in Kenny's old bedroom. 

NailsInsertedFrontSide.jpg.def58c5fe83c3c38a987d37b4b01aad9.jpg

I still hang on to this thing, not sure why exactly. It's wrapped in heavy plastic in one of my closets. I may have it framed some day with the white side out, and a description saying what it is. ^_^ One thing is for sure. Kenny certainly was one to stash this or that. The money below was found buried on his property by a guy who grew up in Bonney Lake. He and his friends. Just like people had claimed for years, but until Kyle stepped forward and did the video, gave the facts, (confirmed by Bonney Lake PD) offered the picture...no one could be sure. Below is a report I created years BEFORE Kyle came forward. It is accurate almost to a T. 

rattenburypublicweb.jpg.72360108cd7197a9cd036f0ee86b7816.jpg

BELOW: Years later, when Kyle came forward, he offered a picture. This money is NOT from the hijacking, but dates from the mid-80s. It was buried on KC's property. Totals about $1,400. KC owned that property from 1972 until his death in 1994, so it is safe to assume it was probably buried by him. Most people would not bother burying money on someone else's house lot and property...especially if people were living there. A vacant property, maybe. An occupied property is very unlikely.

NOTE: I did miss on a couple of small points. The money was not turned in to the owner of the home, or directly to a bank. It was turned in to the Bonney Lake PD, according to Kyle. From THERE it either went to a bank, or directly to the Bureau of Printing and Engraving. Bonney Lake PD was able to confirm the money WAS turned in, but not what happened to it after that. They no longer had the official record. And the check from B and E was not $1,500, but $1,400. The money was split evenly between Kyle and his friends. You can see his testimony HERE at YouTube about it. A tough video to do...it was over 90 degrees that day. 

KCmoneyoutback.thumb.jpg.18f94b717ed6cdbc0e0ab3f45a7f40cb.jpg

What possible purpose would Christiansen have for building a wooden box (yes, the money above was found in a small wooden (hand-built) box and wrapped in heavy plastic) and then shoving a bunch of money into it, and then burying it? I have no idea, but it could have been for bug-out purposes I suppose. Funny though how he did basically the same thing in his attic, you have to admit. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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On 10/14/2020 at 2:21 PM, dudeman17 said:

In both an article and a video that were linked here some time ago, it is indicated that in their normal hydraulic operation, the stairs are either all the way up or down

 

23 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The stairs are hydraulic lift, gravity drop

I suck at search functions, how far back would I have to go to find that video? (Maybe posted by 377?) I seem to remember it being hydraulic both ways. And the article was linked I think by Derek, of all people, so it may have disappeared in a spam purge.

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55 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

 

I suck at search functions, how far back would I have to go to find that video? (Maybe posted by 377?) I seem to remember it being hydraulic both ways. And the article was linked I think by Derek, of all people, so it may have disappeared in a spam purge.

I am sure I have read the stairs are gravity drop, the hydraulics don't push them open but they control the gravity drop.. hold back an abrupt fall - crash.

It is an emergency exit...  you can't rely on hydraulics to open it.

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17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I decided to release some pictures of the counter top piece I still have stored in the office, the one shown in the original Decoded show. 

Background: I was actually present when the cast and crew of Decoded discovered this item. They got the idea to use infrared to try and detect cold and hot spots in KC's house, in an effort to discover any evidence that had been left behind in the home by KC. 

So...they start scanning the house with the infrared, but they aren't really coming up with much. Finally, they get the idea to point it at the ceilings and got a cold reading on the ceiling in Kenny's old bedroom, which would put this spot in the attic of the house. We asked the current owner, the print shop guy, where the access panel was leading to the attic, and he said there wasn't one. It was soon determined that the only access to the attic was by removing an octagonal attic vent, one of two on each end of the house. 

They borrow a ten-foot ladder and Scott Rolle goes up there and reports that several large screws are holding the attic vent in place, the one closest to the cold spot. He uses a screwdriver to remove the screws and crawls inside the attic. After some probing around with a flashlight, he finds the following:

A large board with Formica top is sitting on top of two of the attic joists, and it is covered with insulation. He brushes away the insulation and removes the board. Underneath it, someone had taken two 2x6 boards and nailed them to the joists crosswise, to create a sort of box, with the Formica counter piece covering it on top. The bottom of this 'box' is the sheetrock from the ceiling. Two sides are the 2x6, the other two sides are the attic joists. 

Contrary to what was indicated on the show, I found out later that this counter top board did NOT have hinges on it. Scott Rolle thought it did, and said so while the camera was rolling. Off camera, he corrected himself, but it was left in the show for what reason I am not sure. After the filming was over, I went back to the house some time later and asked the owner if I could go back up there and keep the board for research. He said yes. So I went up there and took it home. 

Pictures below with my notes: 

CountertopStillforPrint.thumb.jpg.f3ee10a6a65eda454212a8deceb2f1b7.jpg

One of the first things I did with this was to take it to a company that had been in the counter top installation business for many years. A few of the guys there examined it. They told me two things about it. First, it was OLD. They guessed at least thirty years and possibly more. They also said it was definitely SCRAP due to the age and because the saw cuts were done quickly and kind of sloppily. Whatever it was supposed to do, whatever purpose it served, it was done in a hurry. 

Witnesses Helen Jones and Margie Geestman had both told me that KC tore out the counter material in his kitchen and replaced it with more or less the same color, right after he moved into the house in 1972. But, he did keep the original cabinets. The picture below lends truth to those statements. It's a 1992 picture of Robin Powell on Halloween, standing in KC's kitchen. The cabinets are obviously very old, but the counter top material looks much newer:

db2.jpg.da23982d1f9e91e18fd50abd25437bfa.jpg

BELOW:  Stain from the board matched the color of the old cabinets, meaning someone PRIOR to KC did the cabinet staining, since he pulled all the counter top material when he moved into the home. What does this mean? It proves KC was the one who cut a spare piece from the scrap, took the trouble to climb into the attic, nail in a pair of 2x6's to make a box, and covered this space with the counter scrap piece. Then...he would have climb back out using a ten-foot ladder, and re-secure the attic vent with its eight screws. The question is, why would he do that? I've been up in that attic. The center height is four feet. It is a very cramped space and takes several minutes just to remove the attic vent, let alone to replace it. He also tossed some loose insulation on top of this whole assembly to conceal it. 

CountertopPieceBackSide.jpg.3e6a7adc60b50e8109e0043cc98d6c41.jpg

BELOW: An edit. I added one more picture. One reason why Scott Rolle may have thought at first the board was hinged was because it had been nailed in place. Not very well, though. He was able to remove it easily, once he found it under the insulation. The cold spot on the infrared that revealed its location was directly above near-center of the ceiling in Kenny's old bedroom. 

NailsInsertedFrontSide.jpg.def58c5fe83c3c38a987d37b4b01aad9.jpg

I still hang on to this thing, not sure why exactly. It's wrapped in heavy plastic in one of my closets. I may have it framed some day with the white side out, and a description saying what it is. ^_^ One thing is for sure. Kenny certainly was one to stash this or that. The money below was found buried on his property by a guy who grew up in Bonney Lake. He and his friends. Just like people had claimed for years, but until Kyle stepped forward and did the video, gave the facts, (confirmed by Bonney Lake PD) offered the picture...no one could be sure. Below is a report I created years BEFORE Kyle came forward. It is accurate almost to a T. 

rattenburypublicweb.jpg.72360108cd7197a9cd036f0ee86b7816.jpg

BELOW: Years later, when Kyle came forward, he offered a picture. This money is NOT from the hijacking, but dates from the mid-80s. It was buried on KC's property. Totals about $1,400. KC owned that property from 1972 until his death in 1994, so it is safe to assume it was probably buried by him. Most people would not bother burying money on someone else's house lot and property...especially if people were living there. A vacant property, maybe. An occupied property is very unlikely.

NOTE: I did miss on a couple of small points. The money was not turned in to the owner of the home, or directly to a bank. It was turned in to the Bonney Lake PD, according to Kyle. From THERE it either went to a bank, or directly to the Bureau of Printing and Engraving. Bonney Lake PD was able to confirm the money WAS turned in, but not what happened to it after that. They no longer had the official record. And the check from B and E was not $1,500, but $1,400. The money was split evenly between Kyle and his friends. You can see his testimony HERE at YouTube about it. A tough video to do...it was over 90 degrees that day. 

KCmoneyoutback.thumb.jpg.18f94b717ed6cdbc0e0ab3f45a7f40cb.jpg

What possible purpose would Christiansen have for building a wooden box (yes, the money above was found in a small wooden (hand-built) box and wrapped in heavy plastic) and then shoving a bunch of money into it, and then burying it? I have no idea, but it could have been for bug-out purposes I suppose. Funny though how he did basically the same thing in his attic, you have to admit. 

 

In case you missed it... 

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5 hours ago, chinaplague5 said:

I know a lot of people that smoke with their off hand 

All of them, some a few,, 3, 7, 67??

It happens but not the norm.

Which hand to they have on the bomb when they are smoking?

Do they carry a briefcace with the off hand?

 

It indicates Cooper was a long term heavy smoker,,,

Sheridan was not a smoker, Cooper didn't fake smoking to throw off investigators.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

I am sure I have read the stairs are gravity drop, the hydraulics don't push them open but they control the gravity drop.. hold back an abrupt fall - crash.

It is an emergency exit...  you can't rely on hydraulics to open it.

I dunno...  Hydraulics are closed pressure systems run by pumps. To allow it to 'gravity drop' would take forever, and would not allow the door to 'free float'. The emergency handle would disconnect the door from the hydraulic system, allowing it to be opened by hand, and would also allow the free float. (There would have to be emergency handles both inside and outside for escape and rescue, hence the inner or outer placards.) Gonna have to find that video.

 

 

11 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

In case you missed it...

Now you're the spammer, haha.

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

I dunno...  Hydraulics are closed pressure systems run by pumps. To allow it to 'gravity drop' would take forever, and would not allow the door to 'free float'. The emergency handle would disconnect the door from the hydraulic system, allowing it to be opened by hand, and would also allow the free float. (There would have to be emergency handles both inside and outside for escape and rescue, hence the inner or outer placards.) Gonna have to find that video.

 

 

Now you're the spammer, haha.

We don't know what that plane had... the 727-100 and 200 series had completely different systems.. but the 100 had an "optional" separate emergency release system behind its own panel door right of the main panel.. The 200 had the emergency release built into the main handle. 

The optional emergency release was later removed from Commercial passenger 100's.. 

I had speculated that Cooper pushed the main lever but didn't press the button and then pulled the emergency system..

The problem with that is,, the emergency system needs to be repaired (locks broken) after it is pulled and there is no record of any damage. The emergency cover is completely removed, obviously missing and the handle is clearly pulled. The only damage noted was minor to rear stairs.

 

So, I really doubt Cooper pulled the emergency system.

 

When the AFT AIRSTAIR light came on Cooper must have moved the main lever.

 

Remember, during the sled test the airstairs bounced back up when it left..  they did not lock down.

image077.jpg.8a395f9bdd7081bec64659dfa7b91859.jpg

18a39af181d1b05077096398811ae904_190x340.jpg.04a581a59ef59b49f4caca46b9d6522e.jpg

 

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Quote

Now you're the spammer, haha.

I don't know about THAT...but since I ditched those movie companies and freed myself from their damned Confidentiality Agreement, I no longer have to keep secrets on what we know regarding KC, and the non-public evidence against him. I will be releasing that here and there. The previous post I did wasn't really a part of that, though. Those things were already public. I just wanted to make sure people got a good look at those things from the source. Too many people like to make assumptions about our investigation into Christiansen....without verifying their assumptions from the source first. Shutter is most famous for that, and sometimes it makes him look the fool. Even I'm not foolish enough to run a story without confirming with the source. B) I learned that reading All The President's Men. 

hahaha.jpg.7a61abe5b430e794d6420da89301ef6b.jpg

On another note, I have obtained permission to do an interview with one of the main people involved in creating the book Ha Ha Ha. I will be interviewing this person (video for YouTube/still shots/article at WordPress and Quora) after Christmas. 

We agreed it was better to wait until after the election and the holidays, plus the Covid Crap. You know how it goes. It was actually my idea to wait until then. I will have to drive several hours each way to do this interview, but I'm okay with that. It's possible we may do this interview BEFORE Christmas, but that is generally up to me. The person involved said they would do it sooner if I wanted. 

It will be a relaxed interview, not a grilling. Basically, I'm looking for the story behind the book, how it was actually created, the results of all that, and how this person looks back today on their effort to produce the book. 

As a pro editor who has edited more than sixty titles in my career, I can tell you a couple of things about that book. It was done in the days prior to digital publishing, instant digital art, and without a word processing program. The embossed cover and artwork are done well. So is the interior editing. And they did all this the old-fashioned way. For an independent production, it was done on a professional level for sure. I want to find out everything about it. And I will. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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DUDEMAN17

"What might make sense for 'oscillations'...

When Cooper opens the door, they drop somewhat but are being held up (partially closed) by the air pressure of the relative wind. When he ventures out on them to jump, his weight causes them to lower somewhat, which would affect the pitch (tail up/nose down). When he jumps, the stairs recoil back up, past their 'static' position. (In fact, they apparently almost closed, which caused the 'pressure bump'.) Then they would fall back down again, again pushing on the air. They would bounce up and down on the air a number of times before settling back to the 'static' position. each time giving a bit of pitch influence."

 

Yes, this is the generally accepted theory..

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Ulis keeps spewing garbage...

The part found near Cinebar was never ID'd as the fibreglass skirt,, it was never shown to be from Norjak,, if he repeats it enough times people believe it as fact.

The Placard was never proven to be from Norjak. The FBI walked it back. It is possible but unlikely. I have outlined many reasons but another is the placard looks too clean to have been out in the PNW woods for seven years. There is no dirt, no staining, nothing on it. This is too "fresh"...

cooperplacardbig.jpeg.8b3d6c0e060276b05d5aca23c41f7473.jpeg

 

Eric's Western Flight Path argument is nonsense.. assumptions and poor logic.

 

1) The placard find location. 

Not proven to be from NORJAK and wind at that location NOT known. The wind drift analysis is garbage. The placard was found within the flightpath error.

2) The fiberglass skirt find location.

Gross Speculation. Part not identified as the skirt and not in any way linked to NORJAK.

3) The money find location.

The money find location isn't evidence of a Western Flight Path. There are many plausible ways the money could have arrived there. Not knowing how doesn't prove an alternate flightpath.



and along the same lines but focusing on the opposite...

4) The complete lack of a single piece of physical evidence pointing to any other flight path. None. Zilch. Nada. Zero. After 49 years.

This is a false on two levels. We don't know that nothing was ever found, nothing was given to the police/FBI,, that doesn't mean nothing was ever found. The false assumption is that anything found was given to FBI. Plus, the fact that nothing was known to be found doesn't mean Cooper didn't land there.

 

This is a very weak theory that doesn't come to close to negating the overwhelming evidence for the "FBI" path..

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

DUDEMAN17

"What might make sense for 'oscillations'...

When Cooper opens the door, they drop somewhat but are being held up (partially closed) by the air pressure of the relative wind. When he ventures out on them to jump, his weight causes them to lower somewhat, which would affect the pitch (tail up/nose down). When he jumps, the stairs recoil back up, past their 'static' position. (In fact, they apparently almost closed, which caused the 'pressure bump'.) Then they would fall back down again, again pushing on the air. They would bounce up and down on the air a number of times before settling back to the 'static' position. each time giving a bit of pitch influence."

 

Yes, this is the generally accepted theory..

Hmmm, okay.

Just what was said over there, especially a few days ago in the 'Tina Bar Money Find' thread, made it sound like no one was sure what was meant by 'oscillations'.

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1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Hmmm, okay.

Just what was said over there, especially a few days ago in the 'Tina Bar Money Find' thread, made it sound like no one was sure what was meant by 'oscillations'.

Most people accept it as the theory,,,

The question is what time exactly did Cooper jump and where exactly was the plane at that time. Radio transmissions have a time delay/rounding error and the flightpath has a  N/S timing 1 minute error rate.

Several times have been reported 8:12, 8:11, 8:10 and the FDR at 8:09.

The FDR has a blip at 8:09....  was that Cooper descending, jumping or the airstair retraction?

 

Oscillations after Cooper jumped.. 

oscillations.jpeg.554e46a5ecdfa5d2b1d1e5a9ac5d35b2.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

So...  About that Sky Sports guy...

Tell you the truth, I just didn't bother going very far with that because I didn't think it mattered enough to the case. Frankly, I didn't really care who owned what chute, or who gave who what, etc. The only thing that mattered was where is the chute Cooper jumped with, i.e. where is it NOW? And on that I suspect it was the chute found near Amboy, WA that was buried without its container and harness. 

Remember>>> I spoke to the FBI agent who was in charge of dealing with the media questions regarding that chute. And more than once, too. (Well, there were actually TWO agents in Seattle taking the questions, one of them being Fred Gutt. The other was the lady actually doing the media releases, such as they were.) And the lady admitted to me that the only 'experts' they consulted about the chute were not actually allowed to see it, but were only contacted by phone. The ONLY outside person to see it was Earl Cossey, and he was not honest about it.

I looked at the whole picture of what happened between the finding of the chute and the final announcement about it (maybe ten days)...and I saw a whitewash for sure. Someone at the Seattle FBI realized that if they admit the chute could be Cooper's, their whole line for years, their position that Cooper died in the jump (their position AFTER the finding of the Tina Bar money) would be seen as dead wrong for decades. 

In other words...the FBI would have to admit that Cooper not only lived, but got away with it, because it takes a LIVE person to D/C the harness and container and bury that chute. In a few short days, the Seattle FBI figured that out, too. If they had found the chute intact, they could still claim Cooper died, and that perhaps someone later happened along the chute and buried it. It's harder to do that if the container and harness were removed and not found at the location the chute was found...which is exactly the case here. 

When I inquired on the chute years later, they said they couldn't discuss it because it was 'evidence in an ongoing case'. I reminded them they had DISMISSED it completely as evidence five years previously. They came back to me with the same answer. I know baloney when I see it. And that whole Amboy chute scenario had Oscar Meyer written all over it...

They are most likely keeping it as evidence today because they know it was the chute used by Cooper. That's a personal opinion. Tom Kaye and his team have a standing offer to the FBI to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute, but they were rebuffed. Kind of strange...the FBI let them look at damn near everything else. Why refuse them access to the Amboy chute? 

As far as the harness and container, I believe Cooper D/C's them, transferred the money from the bank bag to the chute container (less obvious, and they were LOOKING for someone with a bank bag) and after tossing the harness elsewhere, used the container to hike out the money. The bank bag probably went into the same hole or other spot as the harness did. Someone walking along with a backpack looks pretty normal in the Pacific Northwest. Someone hand-carrying a bag like the one shown below would look pretty obvious. 

Bag.jpg.54b0ee11cde4604cbc1eecbe21aa85ec.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Robert, I gotta say that your brain is denser than granite. You use the slightest excuse to redundantly repeat the same crap over and over again that has nothing to do with the question you've been asked. You are an absolutely unreliable source of information. And I'm guessing that you type faster than an auctioneer talks.

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